“We Will Not Have This Man to Reign Over Us”, The Root of Rebellion

[bdavidc]

So Jesus is concerned about money?

Jesus uses money in the parable to teach faithfulness and accountability. He states the lesson plainly: “Because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities” (Luke 19:17). The servants must answer for what their master entrusted to them.

My point was that the “pound” here is money, while the pounds of spices in John describe weight. Sharing an English word does not establish a spiritual connection between two passages. We need to follow the explanation Jesus gives rather than invent connections He never made.

 

[bdavidc]

No. Christ did not promise a "visible return." On the contrary, He set up and taught the terms of a spiritual return "in the glory of the Father", by the Holy Spirit, which is Him as "another [spirit] Helper", as "firstfruits of the Spirit"--"not by observation."

So yes, what you and many have believed is a "lie"--the "lie" foretold by Paul, the cause of "strong delusion", begun by "false teachers" foretold by Peter.


No, that too is a lie. That is only your interpretation of what is written, and what you believe.


We've been through this all before many times--and you repeating your convictions only shows how deep it runs in you.

But again, I will correct you: No, the "like manner" you are quoting above is only part of what is written. Jesus himself said he was coming NOT in the clouds of this world, but "on the clouds of heaven", meaning in spirit...as "God is spirit."

As for Matthew 16:17, you have missed the meaning of that passage completely. Jesus was not just stating how Peter knew His identity--He was stating how He would build His church. Which even Peter described "as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house"--"spiritual"--not "flesh and blood."

As for Luke 24:39--again I must correct you. That passages speaks of Jesus defeating death and rising from the dead--not the resurrection. Contrary to what many believe, the resurrection was depicted at His ascension--a completely different act than Him first rising from the dead. But I speak of heavenly things--how will you understand the full truth, when you are "forty days" off the mark--the very definition of sin?

Well, I have said it before and will say it again--"forty days", "forty years" and even "four hundred years" is a biblical theme spiritually defined and established in the scriptures some 140 times, including the time of Israel's wandering in the desert, the years of reign of both David and Solomon, and Jesus' fasting in the wilderness. Of which Jesus did both--both wandered and suffered in the wilderness, and also walked in glory--"forty days" and "forty nights"--dividing "the light from the darkness."

Stop calling for sin and lies to be believed.

Meanwhile, what I have said not only "submits" but declares what is [actually] true by God and all that is written, while yours is the interpretation, belief, and teachings of men.

You keep calling my statements lies, but your correction directly contradicts the text. You say Jesus rising from the dead was “not the resurrection.” Acts 1:22 explicitly calls it “his resurrection.” Acts 2:31 says David spoke “of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.” His resurrection was His rising from the dead. His ascension followed forty days later (Acts 1:3, 9). Scripture distinguishes those events.

You also claim “clouds of heaven” means an invisible spiritual return. Jesus says the opposite: “They shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory” (Matthew 24:30). The very passage you appeal to says “they shall see.” Where does it say those clouds make Him invisible?

Calling the church a “spiritual house” does not mean Christ no longer has the body in which He rose. Peter was describing believers being built together, not redefining Christ’s resurrection or return. Likewise, “not with observation” in Luke 17:20 concerns the Pharisees’ question about the kingdom. Later in that same chapter, Jesus compares His day to lightning shining across the sky (Luke 17:24).

Your use of “strong delusion” also reverses Paul’s teaching. In 2 Thessalonians 2:1–3, Paul discusses “the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and ... our gathering together unto him,” then warns against claims that the day has already arrived. He does not call belief in Christ’s future visible return the lie.

And Acts 1:3 says Jesus appeared during forty days, “speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God.” It does not describe those days as another wilderness wandering or define disagreement with your timeline as sin. Those connections are your additions.

Show where Scripture says Christ’s resurrection occurred at His ascension or that “they shall see” means an invisible return. Claiming to speak heavenly things does not excuse you from proving what you teach.

 

[ScottA]

Acts 1:22 explicitly calls it “his resurrection.”

Point by point if we must.

No... Acts 1:22 specifically refers to Jesus being "taken up"...which is indeed His resurrection (and ours). But His raising from the grave was forty day prior.

This will be a test of you--will you stand corrected, or against what is actually written?

 

[ScottA]

Acts 2:31 says David spoke “of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.” His resurrection was His rising from the dead. His ascension followed forty days later (Acts 1:3, 9). Scripture distinguishes those events.

Here you error also.

As you have said and quoted, the passage refers to Christ's resurrection, and "his flesh"--but separately, saying "either" regarding only "his flesh." Which you have wrongly assumed means the two, both flesh and spirit, are together in "the resurrection"--which is against all that is written of the flesh returning "to the earth as it was: and the spirit" returning "unto God who gave it."

What most miss here, is that Jesus gave His flesh to the church--saying, "take, eat, this is my body." Which is to say, the church also leaves behind the flesh, that flesh returning "to the earth" to be "dissolved" with "the elements" of the earth.

Again, I have corrected you, but also explained.

 

[ScottA]

You also claim “clouds of heaven” means an invisible spiritual return. Jesus says the opposite: “They shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory” (Matthew 24:30). The very passage you appeal to says “they shall see.” Where does it say those clouds make Him invisible?

Calling the church a “spiritual house” does not mean Christ no longer has the body in which He rose. Peter was describing believers being built together, not redefining Christ’s resurrection or return. Likewise, “not with observation” in Luke 17:20 concerns the Pharisees’ question about the kingdom. Later in that same chapter, Jesus compares His day to lightning shining across the sky (Luke 17:24).

Indeed, "they shall see"--but your error here is in what you do not see. The reference to "heaven" is a qualifying term, by definition "the kingdom of God"--spiritual kingdom of God. "God is spirit." Which is to say, "they will see" in "heaven"--"not by observation" in this world or upon the earth. Which I hope you do "see"...reconciles many passages of scripture...even if you have never considered it so.

And yes--this is all about "the kingdom" the Pharisees asked Jesus about.

 

[ScottA]

Your use of “strong delusion” also reverses Paul’s teaching. In 2 Thessalonians 2:1–3, Paul discusses “the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and ... our gathering together unto him,” then warns against claims that the day has already arrived. He does not call belief in Christ’s future visible return the lie.

That is correct. It was not for Paul to say what the "lie" was. But I have declared it to you--for it is given to me by God to do so.

Again, this too is a test of you.

 

[ScottA]

And Acts 1:3 says Jesus appeared during forty days, “speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God.” It does not describe those days as another wilderness wandering or define disagreement with your timeline as sin. Those connections are your additions.

That is not what I said.

Show where Scripture says Christ’s resurrection occurred at His ascension or that “they shall see” means an invisible return. Claiming to speak heavenly things does not excuse you from proving what you teach.

See post #44.

 

[bdavidc]

Point by point if we must.

No... Acts 1:22 specifically refers to Jesus being "taken up"...which is indeed His resurrection (and ours). But His raising from the grave was forty day prior.

This will be a test of you--will you stand corrected, or against what is actually written?

You keep claiming to correct me while openly contradicting Scripture.

You insist Christ's resurrection occurred at His ascension forty days later. That is false teaching.

Acts 2:31 explicitly calls Christ's rising from the dead His "resurrection." And 1 Corinthians 15:4 says, "he rose again the third day according to the scriptures."

The third day. Not forty days later.

Acts 1:3, 9 clearly distinguishes His resurrection from His ascension. Yet you insist they are the same event.

You also suggest Christ's flesh was left behind. But Jesus Himself said after rising from the dead, "a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have" (Luke 24:39).

You are denying what Scripture plainly teaches about Christ's bodily resurrection, a foundational truth of the gospel.

Paul warned in Galatians 1:8 that anyone preaching another gospel is accursed.

You keep declaring that God has given you special understanding, yet your teaching contradicts God's written Word.

Stop claiming divine authority for teachings you cannot establish from Scripture.

If you believe Christ's resurrection happened forty days after He rose from the grave, show us the verse that says so.

Until then, your claims are not biblical correction. They are a contradiction of Scripture.

 

[bdavidc]

Here you error also.

As you have said and quoted, the passage refers to Christ's resurrection, and "his flesh"--but separately, saying "either" regarding only "his flesh." Which you have wrongly assumed means the two, both flesh and spirit, are together in "the resurrection"--which is against all that is written of the flesh returning "to the earth as it was: and the spirit" returning "unto God who gave it."

What most miss here, is that Jesus gave His flesh to the church--saying, "take, eat, this is my body." Which is to say, the church also leaves behind the flesh, that flesh returning "to the earth" to be "dissolved" with "the elements" of the earth.

Again, I have corrected you, but also explained.

You haven't corrected anything. You've taken Scripture out of context again and are trying to make it support a teaching that directly contradicts the Word of God.

Acts 2:31 says, "He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption."

Peter is describing Christ's resurrection, not His flesh being discarded!

You quote Ecclesiastes 12:7 about the body returning to dust, but you ignore what Jesus Himself declared in John 2:19-21:

"Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."

And John explains, "But he spake of the temple of his body."

His body! Not some fleshless spiritual resurrection you've invented.

After rising from the dead, Jesus told His disciples, "Handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have" (Luke 24:39).

Then in Luke 24:40, "he shewed them his hands and his feet."

And your claim that "Take, eat; this is my body" means Jesus left His flesh behind is another distortion. Jesus was establishing the remembrance of His death (1 Corinthians 11:23-26), not teaching that His resurrected body would be abandoned.

Paul declares in 1 Corinthians 15:20, "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept."

And Philippians 3:21 promises that Christ "shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body."

Christ has a glorious resurrected body! Your teaching contradicts the very Scriptures you claim to explain.

You repeatedly insist, "I have corrected you." No, you have contradicted the apostles, ignored Christ's own words, and replaced biblical truth with your private interpretation.

Stop claiming to speak for God while teaching what His Word plainly denies.

Galatians 1:8 warns against preaching another gospel. Christ's bodily resurrection is not negotiable.

You're wrong.

 

[bdavidc]

Indeed, "they shall see"--but your error here is in what you do not see. The reference to "heaven" is a qualifying term, by definition "the kingdom of God"--spiritual kingdom of God. "God is spirit." Which is to say, "they will see" in "heaven"--"not by observation" in this world or upon the earth. Which I hope you do "see"...reconciles many passages of scripture...even if you have never considered it so.

And yes--this is all about "the kingdom" the Pharisees asked Jesus about.

Once again, you're not correcting Scripture. You're adding your own made-up meaning to it and then accusing me of failing to understand.

Matthew 24:30 says, "they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

You claim that means people will only see Him in heaven, not on earth. Where does Jesus say that? Nowhere!

Revelation 1:7 says, "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him."

Every eye shall see Him. Not merely those already in heaven.

And Acts 1:11 declares, "this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."

The same Jesus who visibly ascended will return. You cannot turn that promise into an invisible event simply by repeating that God is Spirit.

You also misuse Luke 17:20. Jesus was answering the Pharisees about the coming of God's kingdom. But continue reading to verse 24:

"For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day."

Jesus compares His coming to lightning shining across the sky, yet you insist He meant something invisible!

You're confusing the spiritual nature of God's kingdom with the manner of Christ's return. Scripture does not teach that because God is Spirit, the resurrected Jesus cannot appear visibly.

First John 3:2 says, "when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."

You keep telling me what I supposedly cannot see, while refusing to accept what Jesus actually said.

Stop redefining plain Scripture to preserve your false interpretation.

You have not shown a single verse teaching that Christ's promised return is invisible or that Matthew 24:30 refers only to people seeing Him after entering heaven.

Your claims are not divine revelation, they are false. They are interpretations you have fabricated and failed to establish from God's Word.

 

[bdavidc]

That is correct. It was not for Paul to say what the "lie" was. But I have declared it to you--for it is given to me by God to do so.

Again, this too is a test of you.

ScottA, you have just exposed the real problem with your teaching.

You admit that Paul did not identify the lie, but then declare that God personally gave YOU the authority to reveal it!

Who gave you the authority to add your own revelation to what Scripture teaches?

Second Thessalonians 2:10-12 speaks of those who "received not the love of the truth" and "believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." Yet you claim to know something Paul supposedly could not reveal, and expect everyone else to accept your declaration as coming from God.

Your claim of divine revelation is not biblical evidence. You make things up and try to pass it off as if God said it.

Galatians 1:8 says, "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."

And 1 John 4:1 commands us, "believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."

You keep announcing that you're testing me. You are in no position to make your private claims the standard by which my faithfulness to Scripture is judged. You can test me by God's word but not your false teachings.

Your teaching must be tested against God's Word, just like anyone else's.

Acts 17:11 commends those who searched the Scriptures daily to determine whether what they heard was true.

I will not accept your claim that God revealed something to you as proof that your teaching is true, especially when it contradicts what Scripture plainly says about Christ's resurrection and return.

You are not the authority over Scripture, ScottA. Scripture is the authority over you.

Stop demanding that I submit to your fake revelations. Show us where God has written these things in His Word.

If you cannot establish your claims from Scripture, you have no biblical grounds to declare them God's truth.

 

[ScottA]

You keep claiming to correct me while openly contradicting Scripture.

You insist Christ's resurrection occurred at His ascension forty days later. That is false teaching.

Acts 2:31 explicitly calls Christ's rising from the dead His "resurrection." And 1 Corinthians 15:4 says, "he rose again the third day according to the scriptures."

The third day. Not forty days later.

Acts 1:3, 9 clearly distinguishes His resurrection from His ascension. Yet you insist they are the same event.

You also suggest Christ's flesh was left behind. But Jesus Himself said after rising from the dead, "a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have" (Luke 24:39).

You are denying what Scripture plainly teaches about Christ's bodily resurrection, a foundational truth of the gospel.

Paul warned in Galatians 1:8 that anyone preaching another gospel is accursed.

You keep declaring that God has given you special understanding, yet your teaching contradicts God's written Word.

Stop claiming divine authority for teachings you cannot establish from Scripture.

If you believe Christ's resurrection happened forty days after He rose from the grave, show us the verse that says so.

Until then, your claims are not biblical correction. They are a contradiction of Scripture.

Your comprehension is not very good apparently. I did NOT "insist" Christ rising from the grave with His ascension. Perhaps you did..because you keep calling His rising from the grave His resurrection--against what the scriptures say of Him being "taken up" (resurrected) at His ascension.

What I said, is those were two completely different acts--1) His rising from the grave (NOT resurrected into Heaven), and 2) His ascension forty days later, when He WAS "taken up" to Heaven.

In other words--it is YOU who keeps insisting what is not biblical. Which includes you erroneous understanding of what happens with the flesh and the spirit in the resurrection. So, yeah, according to Paul, you are "accursed."

As for "special understanding"--the truth is quite special indeed.

As for what I say and claim or teach being "established from scripture"--I have established it all many times, no contradiction--and many times you simply reject it, as yes, one "accursed."

 

[ScottA]

You haven't corrected anything. You've taken Scripture out of context again and are trying to make it support a teaching that directly contradicts the Word of God.

Acts 2:31 says, "He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption."

Peter is describing Christ's resurrection, not His flesh being discarded!

You quote Ecclesiastes 12:7 about the body returning to dust, but you ignore what Jesus Himself declared in John 2:19-21:

"Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."

And John explains, "But he spake of the temple of his body."

His body! Not some fleshless spiritual resurrection you've invented.

After rising from the dead, Jesus told His disciples, "Handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have" (Luke 24:39).

Then in Luke 24:40, "he shewed them his hands and his feet."

And your claim that "Take, eat; this is my body" means Jesus left His flesh behind is another distortion. Jesus was establishing the remembrance of His death (1 Corinthians 11:23-26), not teaching that His resurrected body would be abandoned.

Paul declares in 1 Corinthians 15:20, "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept."

And Philippians 3:21 promises that Christ "shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body."

Christ has a glorious resurrected body! Your teaching contradicts the very Scriptures you claim to explain.

You repeatedly insist, "I have corrected you." No, you have contradicted the apostles, ignored Christ's own words, and replaced biblical truth with your private interpretation.

Stop claiming to speak for God while teaching what His Word plainly denies.

Galatians 1:8 warns against preaching another gospel. Christ's bodily resurrection is not negotiable.

You're wrong.

You are not putting all that is written together, but rejecting. That is on you.

 

[ScottA]

Once again, you're not correcting Scripture. You're adding your own made-up meaning to it and then accusing me of failing to understand.

Matthew 24:30 says, "they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

You claim that means people will only see Him in heaven, not on earth. Where does Jesus say that? Nowhere!

Revelation 1:7 says, "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him."

Every eye shall see Him. Not merely those already in heaven.

And Acts 1:11 declares, "this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."

The same Jesus who visibly ascended will return. You cannot turn that promise into an invisible event simply by repeating that God is Spirit.

You also misuse Luke 17:20. Jesus was answering the Pharisees about the coming of God's kingdom. But continue reading to verse 24:

"For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day."

Jesus compares His coming to lightning shining across the sky, yet you insist He meant something invisible!

You're confusing the spiritual nature of God's kingdom with the manner of Christ's return. Scripture does not teach that because God is Spirit, the resurrected Jesus cannot appear visibly.

First John 3:2 says, "when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."

You keep telling me what I supposedly cannot see, while refusing to accept what Jesus actually said.

Stop redefining plain Scripture to preserve your false interpretation.

You have not shown a single verse teaching that Christ's promised return is invisible or that Matthew 24:30 refers only to people seeing Him after entering heaven.

Your claims are not divine revelation, they are false. They are interpretations you have fabricated and failed to establish from God's Word.

No...and I am not going to keep repeating the truth just to have you continually reject it. You're on your own.

 

[bdavidc]

Your comprehension is not very good apparently. I did NOT "insist" Christ rising from the grave with His ascension. Perhaps you did..because you keep calling His rising from the grave His resurrection--against what the scriptures say of Him being "taken up" (resurrected) at His ascension.

What I said, is those were two completely different acts--1) His rising from the grave (NOT resurrected into Heaven), and 2) His ascension forty days later, when He WAS "taken up" to Heaven.

In other words--it is YOU who keeps insisting what is not biblical. Which includes you erroneous understanding of what happens with the flesh and the spirit in the resurrection. So, yeah, according to Paul, you are "accursed."

As for "special understanding"--the truth is quite special indeed.

As for what I say and claim or teach being "established from scripture"--I have established it all many times, no contradiction--and many times you simply reject it, as yes, one "accursed."

Your insults do nothing to change what Scripture says. And now you've gone so far as to pronounce me "accursed" for defending Christ's resurrection exactly as the apostles preached it.

You need to be very careful about putting words in God's mouth.

You claim Jesus rising from the grave was NOT His resurrection, but His ascension forty days later was.

Then explain Acts 2:31:

"He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption."

Peter calls it THE RESURRECTION OF CHRIST! Not His ascension!

And Paul declares in 1 Corinthians 15:4, "And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures."

Then verse 20 says, "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept."

Christ's resurrection is His rising from the dead. His ascension is His being taken up into heaven. Scripture distinguishes them. Your invented distinction between rising from the dead and resurrection is not found in God's Word.

Even worse, you accuse me of being accursed while contradicting the very gospel Paul proclaimed!

Read Galatians 1:8 in context. Paul condemns preaching another gospel. He does not condemn people for refusing to accept your private interpretations.

And your claim that Christ's flesh was left behind contradicts His own words in Luke 24:39: "Handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

You are not correcting Scripture with Scripture. You are correcting Scripture with your false interpretation.

Second Timothy 2:16 warns, "But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness." Paul then identifies men who erred concerning the resurrection and overthrew the faith of some (verses 17-18).

That warning should concern you greatly.

Stop declaring people accursed because they reject your teaching. Stop claiming divine authority for something the apostles never taught.

The gospel is not yours to redefine.

Jesus Christ rose bodily from the dead on the third day. He ascended into heaven afterward. That is what Scripture teaches, and no amount of twisting it will make your contrary teaching true.

 

[bdavidc]

You are not putting all that is written together, but rejecting. That is on you.

You've been given Scripture after Scripture proving Christ's bodily resurrection, and your only response is that I'm not putting it all together?

Your false teaching is not something anyone should be following, much less trying to reconcile with God's Word. It needs to be rejected.

Jesus said, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up" (John 2:19). Verse 21 tells us plainly, "But he spake of the temple of his body."

Peter called Christ's rising from the dead His resurrection (Acts 2:31). Paul proclaimed that Christ rose the third day (1 Corinthians 15:4).

Yet you insist His resurrection occurred forty days later at His ascension.

You are not putting Scripture together. You are contradicting it!

Second Timothy 2:17-18 warns about false teachers who erred concerning the resurrection and overthrew the faith of some.

That is how serious this is. You're tampering with one of the foundational truths of the gospel.

You keep claiming to correct me, but you have yet to produce a single passage that establishes your teaching.

Stop pretending that your false interpretation carries any authority at all. It doesn't.

The burden isn't on me to make sense of your false teaching. The burden is on you to prove it from Scripture, and you can not do that.

And until you can, stop presenting your error as God's truth.

 

[bdavidc]

No...and I am not going to keep repeating the truth just to have you continually reject it. You're on your own.

You've been shown what Scripture plainly says, yet you continue defending your false teaching.

Revelation 1:7 says, "every eye shall see him." Your argument is with God's Word, not me.

You have no authority to redefine Scripture and call it divine revelation.

I will continue exposing your false teaching so others are not deceived by it.

 

[bdavidc]

I have told you already--not what is mine--but by Whom. It is enough.

As for you, I have authority to bind and seal your fate, that you should be cut in two and given your portion with the hypocrites, just as it is written. So be it--in the name of Jesus. Amen.

You have no authority to seal my eternal fate or pronounce God's judgment upon me.

Jesus said in John 5:22, "For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son."

And James 4:12 declares, "There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?"

You are not Jesus Christ, and you do not sit upon His judgment seat.

Claiming God gave you authority doesn't make it true. Your words must still be tested by Scripture (1 John 4:1).

Stop pretending your personal declarations carry the authority of Almighty God. They do not.

You have now gone from promoting false teaching to presuming to pronounce divine judgment upon someone who challenges it.

That is a serious warning sign for everyone reading your posts.

 

[ScottA]

TO ANYONE WHO CARES:

bdavidc (David Campbell) believes what he believes of the scriptures is enough to judge what is true of the scriptures, and has made a contest of it. It's not a contest. It's a test--which we all face before God. We are ultimately not judged by men, but by God. And as the scriptures and history have shown, it is the crowd and those who scream the loudest, who are actually wrong and guilty time and time again, even to the point of crucifying Christ. History declares it.

To the contrary, God decides, has decided, and has His own way of sorting everything out and determining who is with Him and who is not--by our own choosing. Meanwhile, God also has His own established methods of unfolding what is actually true "precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little there a little", which comes directly from Him, or through those of His choosing--His choosing--from a donkey to a king, even a pagan king. And who is actually right, or telling the truth, or has or has not been sent by God, is often not sure until way after the fact. If we know anything of the scriptures, we should know that. Take heed. But either way, it is always left for each person to choose what the will and will not believe.

I'm good with that. Most of you know my testimony. If you don't, it's here in multiple places.