Randy, which do you believe regarding this text.
1. That a Christian walking in the light could commit murder?
2. That a Christian walking in the light could accidentally hit his thumb with a hammer and shout out a swear word.
3. Both
Sinless Perfection. Why do so many teach against what Jesus taught?
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1. That a Christian walking in the light could commit murder?
2. That a Christian walking in the light could accidentally hit his thumb with a hammer and shout out a swear word.
3. Both
How is what you've described 'sin not living in a born again Christian?'
What you're describing is hardly sinless perfection. Sin is sin. Either you're doing it, or you're not doing it, even if it isn't the sin for which there was no forgiveness under the old covenant. It's still sin.
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Since we've established that 'the flesh' is your flesh body with it's various yearnings and appetites, aroused and corrupted by the evil one, the failure in Romans 7 is because of the absence of the mind being set on the things of the Spirit, rather than the things of the flesh. That could be because you don't have the Spirit, obviously. But it could also mean you do have the Spirit but your mind is not educated in the things of the Lord, or you are not familiar with the Lord's help in the battle with sin.
But you still sin. So how is that Jesus taking away the flesh/carnal nature? This only makes sense if you understand what the Bible says, that it is because you are still in unredeemed flesh that you still sin. And that you have to put your mind on heavenly things, the things of the Spirit, and rely on God to resist and not be defeated by the things of the flesh.
Either that, or they are born again but have yet to learn what constitutes righteous behavior, and learn how to avail themselves of the Lord's help in overcoming temptation. Still being able to sin does not mean you are not born again. Living in sin and being characterized by it means you are not born again. Slavery to sin is the sign of unbelief, not still being able to sin.
I would just like to interject to point out that walking in the light includes being transparent and honest with the Lord. It is in and by the light of the Lord that we truly learn and realize in an experiential way that "in me, that is in my flesh, dwells no good thing". His light brings things to light that are hidden in darkness.....in order that they be brought to the cross to be confessed, forgiven, cleansed and healed. In the old testament we hear the Lord pleading, pleading brokenheartedly with His people, "only acknowledge your iniquity"(Jer 3).....in order that He not have to judge them. That was all He asked of them....just to acknowledge theirs sins, not hide them, or cover them up with fig leaves, not deny them, not make excuses for them, not justify them.....but realize, confront and confess them.........that is walking in the light. 1 Cor 11:31-32 "For if we would judge ourselves we should not be judged. But when we are judged we are chastened of the Lord that we should not be condemned with the world"
Unrighteousness in humanity is what we believers condemn. That's what you're not getting.
No one is perfect. The problem with your theology is you have no blood sacrifice to atone for your unrighteousness. And so the guilt of your unrighteousness remains, regardless of any righteous behavior you do have. Even if you really did become literally perfect in thought and deed there is still the matter of your past unrighteousness. God is a just God. There is a just penalty for sin and it has to be paid. There is no just penalty for sin in your theology. Everybody remains in the guilt of their unrighteousness in your theology. The guilt of unrighteousness is not removed through doing righteous works. Forgiveness through blood sacrifice and transformation by the Spirit is what makes a person right with God.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
That man you wrote this too is in upmost dire and deadly danger .
That man does a very deadly and wicked thing .
Not only will he not preach the dire necessity to even have to repent and beleive on JESUS .
He went after me for telling an athiest of his dire need to repent and believe on JESUS .
HE called it religous extremism . And now a word .
HOW righteous IS IT to call GOD a liar , to even go after those who remind others as well as the church
of the dire need to beleive on JESUS . Even paul reminded the church .
But as i said not only did epi NOT tell that athiest of his dire need to repent and beleive on JESUS .,
When i did , HE called it religious extremism .
No man can save himself by his own means .
LORD who then can be saved , with man THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE but NOT WITH GOD .
And how did GOD choose to save the world ,
FOR it pleased the FATHER that by preaching to save those who BELEIVE .
EPI is doing all to silence that preaching and even calls it relgious extremism .
MostlyConfused
Well-Known Member
So do you think that receiving the down payment of the Holy Spirit is not yet being born from above? Sorry if the question has already been asked and answered - it’s where my mind goes, and 74 pages is too much for me to go searching! And also, good morning.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
and how honest is it if one is calling GOD a liar and implying that its okay to do so , just HIC and all is well .
If any goes about and tries to silence the preaching of the dire necessity for to have to BELIEVE JESUS is the Christ
IF any goes about calling that religous dogma
IF any goes about not only refusing to preach the true gospel to an athiest
but WHEN ONE shows up to do so and he calls that man a religious extremist .
THEN HOW ON EARTH IS THE LIGHT OF GOD and OF CHRIST in such a man . IT aint sister .
No man would ever imply its okay to call JESUS accursed .
Not if that man was born of GOD and of the SPIRIT . No mam
THOSE who are born of GOD , BY THE SPIRIT would have testified TRUTH , thus ON JESUS C HRIST .
The dire necessity to have to beleive on HIM and then teaching them to observe all things HE did teach and say .
The delusion of the inclusion is meant for one thing dear sister ,
and that is to merge this world as one mindset with one common goal , aka FOR WORLD PEACE ,
and to convince them all this is the road to their beloved peace n safety of the world .
AND yet it is but a lying spirit sent to gather them all unto the day THEY THINK will usher upon them peace n safety ,
BUT WILL RAIN DOWN SUDDEN destruction upon them all . by the VERY GOD they all beleived they were following .
Yet had no idea it was only HE who desires to be as GOD that they were heeding .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
if you see the sword approaching and do not warn the wicked to repent
of his wicked way ..............................................
Well sister , BY grace I DO see the sword of the judgment of GOD all mighty approaches
and beleive me when i say , ITS NOT COMING FOR PEACE N SAFETY
its coming to rid the earth of all who loved a lie and had gathered as one beleiving that was the way to attain PEACE n safety .
OH YES . THE SWORD cometh and it will come in a day and at an hour This people knows not .
GOD is not , thus Christ is not the one behind this peace merger .
Someone else has been and his harlot has been real busy making the minds ready
to recieve and to beleive THE LIE .
Tick tock ..............................and i dont know how many more ticks or tocks this world has left
before The Coming of THE ONE TRUE CHRIST OF GOD does come upon them all .
And as i wrote before , IT WONT be a day of rejoicing unto all who made and loved a lie .
You are not thinking far enough. God condemns unrighteousness BOTH in the world and the church. The unrighteous of the world are cast into the lake of fire. The unrighteous in God's house are cast into outer darkness because they are saved by calling on the name of the Lord.
Our perfection is Christ. Putting on Christ is putting on His perfection.
The unrighteous are not atoned for. The unrighteous don't inherit the kingdom.
The righteous are not ALSO unrighteous. The unrighteous are not ALSO righteous. That is an invention of religious crazies.
In holiness, yes. A life for a life. But for righteousness all one needs to do is repent to be forgiven. No blood necessary. If you forgive others then God will forgive you. If you don't forgive others then God will not forgive you. Do you see the pattern emerging?
Mercy triumphs over judgment for the righteous. The penalty for sin is death...separation from God. A Christian who continues to sin will be separated from God for eternity.
MostlyConfused
Well-Known Member
That last sentence is difficult. For someone who is struggling with a repeated sin of the flesh like…anger, unforgiveness and are not yet aware of their total inability to conquer of themselves, I think it requires more explanation.
You're proving the Reformation's error that Jesus hated when He said, "you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead." Instead they taught "sin is sin." That is not how God views sin. Paul says, the wages of sin is death, yet John says there is sin not unto death. He's not speaking of physical death, but eternal death. And I don't teach "sinless perfection." I teach we are first made righteous/free from sin, then after a long process comes perfection. These two stages are both by Jesus as the Author and Finisher of our faith. These are revealed from "faith to faith." The first is why Jesus came. The sin of lawlessness. These are sins unto death that Jesus cleanses from our nature, making us clean. A born again Christian has no desire to commit these sins. The next type are the lesser type committed due to immature fruit. They are not unto death.
Jesus as 2 roles
2 types of sin
2 stages
2 faiths
RandyDawson
New Member
A Christian walking in the Light as the Lord walks in the Light is being led by the Holy Spirit and is serious about their relationship with the Lord so this type person would certainly not be committing any murders considering the Holy Spirit does not lead people to do murder.
The Lord said in Matthew 12:34 out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, so swearing is not a good thing.
This is why a born again Christian is "NOT IN THE FLESH". That is how the Jews had to keep the Ten Commandments, and failed, not because there was anything wrong with God's law, but the flesh is weak. The flesh spoken here is the old man, the carnal nature. It has been crucified. That means we are dead to willful lawless sin. Not to all imperfections, but the worst is gone. As the Author of our first faith, He makes us righteous. Then on to perfection/holiness as the Finisher of our second faith.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
you ask many questions my friend . and while its okay to ask questions
You have not yet asked the right question , the very question that you truly need to ask my friend .
Even a pa rrot can quote truth verbatum . But do ya really think the parrot
even BELEIVES that which it mimics .
You NEED to ask the r ight question . but in order to do so
I HIGHLY suggest you return to the pages of that bible.
And you start reading THAT BOOK again . You read about JESUS in the four gospels
YOU read about the acts of the apostels
You read their let ters , to include what paul wrote . romans , both letters to the corinthians
his letter to the galations and ephesians , his le tter to both the colossians and phillipains
His letters to the church of the thessalonians , both letters to timothy , the letter to titus
and even the letter to philemon and the house o archippus etc .
Read the letter called hebrews , read the letter from james , both letters from peter
all three letters from john
and the letter of jude .
THEN read the rev elation given to John .
And i will give you a question you need to ask yourself
WHILE you read those letters . ITS tied into the question you really need to be asking .
WHILE reading them four gospels , while reading the book of acts and all the letters of the apost els
and do take heed to the message given to the seven churches s,
Ask yourself what was their approach towards sin , towards unbelief , what and who DID they preach
and how did they respond to those who rejected and how did they respond to those who tried to lead folks away
from the faith . You seem always so willing to hear from God about what to read and etc
TIME YOU READ THAT BIBLE . TIME to love those words . TIME to love that GOD , THAT CHRIST .
Christians who are genuinely faithful do not make a lifestyle of persistent, unrepentant sin. Nor is there a deadline for overcoming or leaving behind any particular sin. They repent sincerely, with humility and a contrite heart.
I remember spending several years anguished over one past sin. To me, it may have been the most painful, difficult and heartfelt one. Yet God had forgiven me as soon as I repented. Still, as a frail and humble person who continually holds my God in deep reverence, I remained troubled by it, with more sorrow, tears and repentance. I was learning about my Father, and how much he loves me.
If the Spirit of truth truly dwells within you through the Son’s spirit, as it does within me yesterday, today, and tomorrow, you would never have written this comment. It is not scriptural, and I find it offensive.
In truth, you have called God a liar. He gave us his grace as a gift for our salvation, on the condition that we accept it by welcoming him and his Son with open hearts, repenting of our unrighteousness and sinful nature, and having genuine faith.
God does not take back his gift of salvation whenever he pleases. What Father would he be if he did this?
If you knew my Father and his Son, you would know both loves you for who you are. And they come to you as you are, to love you and all who accept them and God's word and love, and promise of life, eternal.
God is my Father, and I love him with all that I am and throughout my life. I’m grateful for everything he has done for me and those I love. He gave me the spirit of his Son, just as he was and still is. I disagree with your statement because it hurts to know that you don’t “see” or experience God in the same way I do. It feels as though you are diminishing the Father and reshaping him to fit your own version of the gospel, one that I believe needs no revision.
I hope you can explain what you meant by your statement without using exaggerated, flowery, or misleading language that takes effort to decipher. Otherwise, writing it and reading it would be again, based on your past record, pointless and a waste of time. And nothing is accomplished.
MostlyConfused
Well-Known Member
The comment IS scriptural. It absolutely is. But I think depending on where you are in understanding it might require more explanation. Some people get into a panic rather than to keep trusting even though they don’t understand.
Yes it is. It is what Jesus does first as the Author of our faith. He takes away lawless sin from our "old man" the carnal nature Paul called "the flesh." But that has nothing to do with our body. Sin does not reside in our body, but in our mind and heart. Those are what is first born again. But your understanding is good.
The problem I had was I was in church for 30 years BEFORE this first stage happened, and I'm very afraid for those in the church who still have no power over sin.
The bible is quite specific about ongoing willful sin. This is not about being perfect or sinless completely...but about a specific kind of sin...iniquity. The seal of the Lord has two sides. God knows those who are His....AND...let those who name the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.
Iniquity is a sin against HOLINESS. It is claiming to be something you are not.
Jesus told the Pharisees...because you say you SEE, your sin (iniquity) remains. Willful sins are calculated...not because of weakness but by a misplaced strength...in the religious outer man.
If willful sins were also forgiven then there would be none going into outer darkness.
Unforgiveness is a sin against righteousness. Such risk having their own forgiveness revoked.
RandyDawson
New Member
If I go back to living in sin I won't go to hell? I'll instead go to outer darkness?
There's no darkness in God or in His kingdom, so where is outer darkness at exactly?
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