riots in Europe

[Marilyn C]

If my bluntness offends you, I’m sorry—but the truth doesn’t become less true because it’s uncomfortable.



Smile...

Then if you are correct, then most Bible commentators are engaging in personal opinions, idle speculation, and their own private interpretations. Because the Word of God tells us very clearly who Gog is, and who Magog is also.

Revelation 20:7-8

• "And when the thousand years have been completed, Satan shall be loosed from his prison,
• and shall go out to deceive the nations which [are] in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war, whose number [is] as the sand of the sea."

So unless Russia has conquered the whole world and become all the nations from its four corners, then their interpretations has been measured against the Word of God and found wanting. God's word tells us that when Satan is unbound or loosed from his prison, he will go forth deceiving "the nations of the entire world," and God calls them collectively, "Gog and Magog." Why "Gog and Magog" is a subject for another day, but suffice it to say, all the "nations" of the world are gathered together against the camp of the saints, which would be the church. Saints are God's people, and their camp is the church.



(Chuckle) Ah yes, the classic 1970s premillennial approach—keep one eye on Scripture and the other on the evening news, then squeeze today’s nations into biblical prophecy. Sorry to disappoint you, but Christ is exposing a far more sinister spiritual kingdom—one foreshadowed by those Old Testament nations. Perhaps let Scripture interpret the headlines for a change, will ya?!



Really? I do not think you have studied his sources very well.

Yes—Hal Lindsey explicitly discussed Islam in his biblical prophecy teaching. His own ministry website, the Hal Lindsey Report, provides clear examples:

• His teaching series, Ezekiel’s View on the Middle East Crisis, includes topics titled “The Koran Contradicts Several Key Verses of the Bible” and “Muhammad Was a Genius in Spreading Islam,” alongside teachings on Ezekiel 38 and its predicted invasion.
• In “Gog, Magog, and Russia” (September 2023), he identified Russia as leading the Ezekiel 38–39 coalition, with Iran, Turkey, and certain African nations among its allies.
• In “Israel…at War” (October 2023), he discussed radical Islamic terrorism and described the Hamas attack as a precursor to his interpretation of the Russia–Iran war in Ezekiel 38–39.

So, yes, he connected Islam and modern Muslim nations with end-times prophecy.

Selah!

It`s more than bluntness, SI.

I think you need to read God`s details a bit closer.

Gog and Magog - `I (God) will turn you (Gog) around, put hooks in your jaws & lead you out.....out of the far north...I will bring you against my land.. And I will bring him to judgment with pestilence and bloodshed. I will rain down on him, on his troops, and on the many peoples who are with him, flooding rain, great hailstones, fire and brimstone.` (Ez. 38: 2 & 15 & 22)

Gog and Magog - `Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which [are] in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them to battle...And fire came down from heaven and devoured them.` (Rev. 20: 7 - 9)



So obviously I haven`t read Hal Lindsaey`s work. Thanks for writing about it.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The ten kings share power to rule with the little horn person when he becomes the beast for one hour (metaphorically being 42 months).

Where does Scripture say that “the ten kings share power to rule with the little horn person”? Show me the verse, Douggg.

Revelation 17:12–13 says the ten kings receive authority with the beast for one hour and give their power and authority to the beast. It does not say that the little horn is an individual person who becomes the beast, nor does it say that the “one hour” equals forty-two months.

Once again, you are reading your assumptions into the text and presenting them as though Scripture actually says them. You first assume the beast and the little horn must be a person, and then you build your interpretation on that assumption.

Where does the Bible say what you claim? Give us the verse, not another conclusion based on your presuppositions. Selah!

Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

Yes, Revelation 17:12 says that the ten kings receive authority as kings for “one hour with the beast.” But it does not say that the beast is an individual man or that these are ten modern political rulers.

The beast’s brief rise to power within the unfaithful church. Revelation 11:7 says that the beast ascends out of the bottomless pit and makes war against the two witnesses. Revelation 17:13 then says that the ten kings have one purpose and give their power and authority to the beast. Together, they exercise authority for a short season.

The woman riding the beast represents the unfaithful congregation—Babylon, the Great — supported by the very power on which she sits (Revelation 17:3–5). And the war against the Lamb is spiritual opposition to Christ and His faithful people (Revelation 17:14; 11:7).

So quoting Revelation 17:12 does not establish that the beast is one man or that the ten kings are ten individual political leaders or physical nations. Those are conclusions you are bringing to the passage, not what the verse itself says.

Selah!

 

[ewq1938]

The ten horns represent ten kings.

The seven heads represent...
(1) seven mountains on which the woman sits.

Correct.

(2) seven kings associated with that location

Incorrect. The heads are mountains not kings. Rev uses horn s to represent kings.

five have fallen (at the time of John)
one is (king 6) (at the time of John)
one is yet to come


The seven heads as representing seven mountains on which the woman sits - none of the seven mountains fall.

That's why the 7 heads are not the fallen/falling kings.

 

[TribulationSigns]

It`s more than bluntness, SI.

Awww. Wanna some tissues?

I think you need to read God`s details a bit closer.

Gog and Magog - `I (God) will turn you (Gog) around, put hooks in your jaws & lead you out.....out of the far north...I will bring you against my land.. And I will bring him to judgment with pestilence and bloodshed. I will rain down on him, on his troops, and on the many peoples who are with him, flooding rain, great hailstones, fire and brimstone.` (Ez. 38: 2 & 15 & 22)

Marilyn, let’s read God’s words carefully, including what He says in the next chapter:

Ezekiel 39:1–2: “Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal: And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel.”

Notice that Gog—not God—is called the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal. God is speaking against Gog and declares that He will turn him back and bring him against the mountains of Israel. So the question is: Who or what does Gog represent, and what do Meshech, Tubal, and the mountains of Israel signify?

Have you considered how this language connects with Revelation 20:1–3, 7–9? Satan is bound so that he cannot deceive the nations as before; afterward, he is released for a little season and goes out to deceive the nations called Gog and Magog, gathering them against “the camp of the saints” and “the beloved city.” God then judges them with fire.

Do you understand that picture spiritually? During the period when Satan is restrained, Christ builds His church and gathers His elect. After that, Satan is released for a short season, and God permits him to gather the deceived against His people. This is a spiritual assault involving deception and opposition within the congregation, not merely an invasion by modern armies against Israel you thought is a physical nation. Wrong! Compare Matthew 24:24, where false Christs and false prophets deceive, and 2 Thessalonians 2:3–4, 9–12, which describes rebellion and deception connected with the temple of God. it is all about CHURCH! Not nation Israel!

Ezekiel also says that God Himself brings Gog against His land (aka holy city) and then judges him (Ezekiel 38:16, 22–23). God remains sovereign over the entire event, just as Satan’s release in Revelation 20 happens only for the time God permits.

So, Marilyn, have you considered these connections? Or are you assuming from the beginning that “Israel,” “the nations,” and “Gog” must refer to physical territory, modern nations, and a political leader? That conclusion needs to be demonstrated from Scripture, not simply assumed.

Selah!

Gog and Magog - `Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which [are] in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them to battle...And fire came down from heaven and devoured them.` (Rev. 20: 7 - 9)

Why was Satan in prison in the first place? When did that take place?

So obviously I haven`t read Hal Lindsaey`s work. Thanks for writing about it.

So you haven’t read Hal Lindsey’s work, yet you assumed he never said anything about Islam?

That’s quite a conclusion to reach without reading what he actually wrote. Go figure!

 

[TribulationSigns]

The ten horns represent ten kings.

Douggg, saying “the ten horns represent ten kings” does not prove that they are ten individual human rulers. You keep assuming that the symbols must mean what you think they mean, and then treating your assumption as if the verse settled the question. It doesn’t!

Let’s keep reading:

Revelation 17:16–18
“And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.”

Now, Douggg, if you insist on turning the ten kings into ten individual men, what do you do with the rest of the picture? Are these ten men going to strip an actual woman naked, eat her physical flesh, and burn her body with literal fire? LOL! John says the woman represents a great city! What city is this? A physical city? Or A spiritual great city that His congregation represents, humm?

You recognize symbolism when it comes to the woman, don’t you? Then why do you stop looking for it when you come to the ten horns and ten kings?

Do your homework in Scripture. What does making her desolate and naked signify? What does eating her flesh signify? What does burning her with fire signify? And why does God put it in their hearts to give their kingdom to the beast?

You cannot simply point to the word “kings” and declare, “There must be ten individual men!” You still need to demonstrate that interpretation from Scripture.

Let’s hear your answer, Douggg.

Selah!

 

[Douggg]

Now, Douggg, if you insist on turning the ten kings into ten individual men, what do you do with the rest of the picture? Are these ten men going to strip an actual woman naked, eat her physical flesh, and burn her body with literal fire? LOL! John says the woman represents a great city! What city is this? A physical city? Or A spiritual great city that His congregation represents, humm?

The ten EU leaders who will rule with the beast dictator of the EU will burn the Vatican to the ground.

 

[Marilyn C]

Awww. Wanna some tissues?


Marilyn, let’s read God’s words carefully, including what He says in the next chapter:


Notice that Gog—not God—is called the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal. God is speaking against Gog and declares that He will turn him back and bring him against the mountains of Israel. So the question is: Who or what does Gog represent, and what do Meshech, Tubal, and the mountains of Israel signify?

Have you considered how this language connects with Revelation 20:1–3, 7–9? Satan is bound so that he cannot deceive the nations as before; afterward, he is released for a little season and goes out to deceive the nations called Gog and Magog, gathering them against “the camp of the saints” and “the beloved city.” God then judges them with fire.

Do you understand that picture spiritually? During the period when Satan is restrained, Christ builds His church and gathers His elect. After that, Satan is released for a short season, and God permits him to gather the deceived against His people. This is a spiritual assault involving deception and opposition within the congregation, not merely an invasion by modern armies against Israel you thought is a physical nation. Wrong! Compare Matthew 24:24, where false Christs and false prophets deceive, and 2 Thessalonians 2:3–4, 9–12, which describes rebellion and deception connected with the temple of God. it is all about CHURCH! Not nation Israel!

Ezekiel also says that God Himself brings Gog against His land (aka holy city) and then judges him (Ezekiel 38:16, 22–23). God remains sovereign over the entire event, just as Satan’s release in Revelation 20 happens only for the time God permits.

So, Marilyn, have you considered these connections? Or are you assuming from the beginning that “Israel,” “the nations,” and “Gog” must refer to physical territory, modern nations, and a political leader? That conclusion needs to be demonstrated from Scripture, not simply assumed.

Selah!


Why was Satan in prison in the first place? When did that take place?




So you haven’t read Hal Lindsey’s work, yet you assumed he never said anything about Islam?

That’s quite a conclusion to reach without reading what he actually wrote. Go figure!

No tissues, but just plain politness would be a good start.

So, no looking at what I posted and on with your nonsense. If it is a spiritual attack then God gets rid of that `with fire?` and everyone is just fine thank you.

Gog -is the leader and Magog the land. So in Ex, 38 & 39 that is Rosh, far north country. In Rev. 20 Gog is the leader of the world`s nations.

I can have my thoughts and I thought that if Hal Lindsay talked about Islam then there wouldn`t be all this talk about the EU we have today.

 

[ewq1938]

In Rev. 20 Gog is the leader of the world`s nations.

Kinda like an antichrist after "the Antichrist" of Rev 19, 13 etc?

 

[Anchorite]

Russia, China, North Korea, and Iran joining forces to wipe out the United States, then Europe and Italy on fire, as globalists destroy civilization and national borders, with Muslims, atheists, invading migrant savages, and communists taking over…

…seems ripe for the Anti-Christ to make his vile appearance to bring peace to the world.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The ten EU leaders who will rule with the beast dictator of the EU will burn the Vatican to the ground.

Douggg, that is not a biblical answer. You have simply repeated your interpretation: ten EU leaders, an EU dictator, and the Vatican. Where does Revelation 17 identify any of them?

The passage says the ten horns represent ten kings who receive authority with the beast for one hour and give their power to him (Revelation 17:12–13). It does not say “EU leaders,” “an EU dictator,” or “the Vatican.” You are inserting those identities into the text and presenting your speculation as though it were Scripture.

And you still haven’t answered my questions about Revelation 17:16. If the woman is the Vatican, how will ten EU leaders eat her flesh? How will they make her naked? Are they going to strip a building and eat its flesh? LOL!

You acknowledge symbolism when it suits your interpretation, yet insist that the ten kings must be ten individual European leaders. Why? You need to explain that from Scripture, not simply repeat your theory.

John tells us that the woman represents a great city (Revelation 17:18). The city actually represent the unfaithful New Testament congregation, not a building in Rome that sits upon seven literal hills. So please answer the actual questions: What do eating her flesh, making her naked, and burning her with fire signify? Where does Scripture identify the ten kings as EU leaders?

Let Scripture speak, Douggg, instead of making it fit your assumptions.

Selah!

 

[TribulationSigns]

No tissues, but just plain politness would be a good start.

So, no looking at what I posted and on with your nonsense. If it is a spiritual attack then God gets rid of that `with fire?` and everyone is just fine thank you.

Marilyn, if you are suggesting that my posts are a “spiritual attack” that God needs to get rid of with fire so everyone can get along, you have misunderstood what I am saying.

I am using Scripture to challenge what I believe is false doctrine. The Bible itself uses fire as a picture of God’s Word:

Jeremiah 5:14: “Behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.”

And again:

Jeremiah 23:29: “Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD.”

My point is that proclaiming the truth of God’s Word exposes and challenges false teaching. Calling that a “spiritual attack” does not answer the Scriptures I have presented.

You may not like hearing the truth, but please address the biblical argument rather than suggesting that God needs to remove me or my post so everyone can get along. Really? LOL.

Gog -is the leader and Magog the land. So in Ex, 38 & 39 that is Rosh, far north country. In Rev. 20 Gog is the leader of the world`s nations.

Marilyn, time out. You’ve made several claims, but where does Scripture establish them?

First, where does the Bible say that Rosh is Russia? Please show me the verse. Ezekiel 38 describes Gog as being from the “north parts” (verse 15, KJV), but the passage does not name modern Russia. Saying that Russia is north of Israel does not, by itself, prove they are the same.

Second, the word translated “chief” in Ezekiel 38:2 is rendered “Rosh” in some translations. But even if you understand Rosh as a place name, you still need to demonstrate why it means Russia. You cannot simply assume that two names refer to the same place.

Third, where does Revelation 20 say Gog is the individual leader of the world’s nations? Revelation 20:8 speaks of “the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog,” being gathered for battle. It does not explicitly call Gog their leader. That is an interpretation you are bringing over from Ezekiel, not a statement Revelation itself makes. So what does God and Magog means to God, then?

Gog and Magog in Revelation as a picture of those deceived by Satan. That's it! Not about naming some countries we know today. They gathered against the saints and the beloved city, which is clearly the New Testament congregation on this side of the Cross, (Revelation 20:7–9). So the question remains: What scriptural evidence identifies Gog with a "modern political leader" or "Rosh with Russia?" Clearly you make it up to fit your literal narrative theories.

Please show me the biblical references, not assumptions based on geography or "similar-sounding names."

Selah!

I can have my thoughts and I thought that if Hal Lindsay talked about Islam then there wouldn`t be all this talk about the EU we have today.

Of course you can have your own thoughts. But having a thought and establishing a fact are two different things.

Why would Hal Lindsey discussing Islam necessarily have prevented people from talking about the EU? People can hold different prophecy theories, and one subject doesn’t automatically cancel out another.

If you’re going to claim that he didn’t discuss Islam, shouldn’t you first check what he actually wrote? Otherwise, you’re basing your conclusion on an assumption. Admit it.