Christianity is NOT Derived From Judaism

[Wick Stick]

God did not split the Old Testament, publishers did when they printed a table of contents. You’re also confusing a Jewish book-binding layout with an actual split in God's covenant. Like I said, Jesus unified them in Luke 24:27, showing they are a single, continuous witness to Him.

False. The LXX makes the split before the NT age. There was no such thing as a publisher then.

Trying to gaslight me about 'annihilation' is hilarious considering you are the one who wrote that people 'just stop existing' in your last post. You had to fracture Scripture, resurrect 3 ancient heresies, and invent a cosmic recycle bin for human souls just to protect the broken timeline

No gaslighting here. I genuinely believe in annihilation. I can show you where it exists in Jewish thought before the NT, if you care, which I doubt.

 

[Wick Stick]

Yeah you’re right, apart from the Pelagianism and Annihilationism, you’re only flirting heavily with Marcionism.

Not at all. I wish people actually read source material, other than googling.

Marcion's thesis is that the god of the OT is not the God of the NT. I'm a billion miles away from that. I reject that explicitly. I'm heavily invested in the OT.

Maybe believe people when they tell you what they believe?

 

[Rhetro]

False. The LXX makes the split before the NT age. There was no such thing as a publisher then.

No gaslighting here. I genuinely believe in annihilation. I can show you where it exists in Jewish thought before the NT, if you care, which I doubt.

Your big defense is the Septuagint? You are quite literally arguing that because ancient librarians changed the sorting order of a scroll shelf in Alexandria, God created two competing religions. A library catalog change does not override Jesus Christ explicitly unifying 'Moses and the Prophets'

I know you believe in annihilation, you’ve annihilated theology and 2000 years of history. By your own logic, if a modern publisher prints the Book of Isaiah and the Gospel of John in different fonts, they've created two different Gods

 

[Rhetro]

Not at all. I wish people actually read source material, other than googling.

Marcion's thesis is that the god of the OT is not the God of the NT. I'm a billion miles away from that. I reject that explicitly. I'm heavily invested in the OT.

Maybe believe people when they tell you what they believe?

You can deny the label all you want, but your own exact words are: “Moses was given to administer a covenant of punishment on Israel”

 

[Wick Stick]

Your big defense is the Septuagint? You are quite literally arguing that because ancient librarians changed the sorting order of a scroll shelf in Alexandria, God created two competing religions. A library catalog change does not override Jesus Christ explicitly unifying 'Moses and the Prophets'

I know you believe in annihilation, you’ve annihilated theology and 2000 years of history. By your own logic, if a modern publisher prints the Book of Isaiah and the Gospel of John in different fonts, they've created two different Gods

Uh... no? What the hell are you talking about?

 

[Wick Stick]

You can deny the label all you want, but your own exact words are: “Moses was given to administer a covenant of punishment on Israel”

That's accurate... and has NOTHING to do with Marcion.

 

[Rhetro]

That's accurate... and has NOTHING to do with Marcion.

To claim that God's holy Law is an un-salvific, punitive torture program designed for pure retaliation is the literal core blueprint of Marcionism, no matter how much you try to run from the label

 

[Rhetro]

Uh... no? What the hell are you talking about?

Let me ask you this. You’ve adopted 2 big heresies and flirting with a third, you think Augustine is an idiot and all, etc.

What would give you the authority to interpret Scripture however you want just like Mormons and JW?

What would stop me from removing all books from the Bible except for the 4 gospels?

 

[Wrangler]

So there never was a neutral 'Judaism' left over after the Resurrection that belonged to the Old Testament

Your gaslighting is over the top with all this talk of a sect of Judaism (Rabbinic) AFTER the resurrection and pretending that is the only kind and the kind under discussion.

The antisemitism on display is over the top, denying:

1. Jesus was a Jew, with no evidence he stopped being Jewish, making his ministry derived from Judaism.
2. Jesus is the Jewish Messiah.
3. Jesus quoted the Jewish Holy texts in his ministry, even saying he did not come to abolish those laws, which further shows how is work is derived from Judaism.

 

[Wrangler]

Hold on, just because we agree Christianity is the religion of the prophets, doesn't mean it's a sect.

Another artificial dichotomy. What would make Christianity a sect of Judaism?

 

[David in NJ]

This is a failure to recognize how modern Western theology has been deeply subverted by secular politics. Calling out the fact that both secular political groups and certain religious factions use emotional labels ("racist" or "antisemitic") to completely shut down intellectual and theological discourse is not "equating politics to theology."


In Christian theology, the "WHY" is the entire point. To claim the "why" doesn't matter is a profoundly anti-intellectual stance that strips Scripture of its meaning. The "WHAT" is that salvation came from the Jews (lineage). The "WHY" is that God chose Abraham's seed to bring forth the Messiah to bless all nations, thereby fulfilling and transforming the Old Covenant. If you ignore the "why," you collapse into a flat, carnal reading of Scripture that completely misses the cosmic purpose of the Incarnation.



It absolutely affects how we define the source versus the destination of salvation. Salvation came out of (Greek: ek) the Jewish nation as a historical conduit, but its destination is the universal Church, where "there is neither Jew nor Greek" (Galatians 3:28. You are conflating the historical womb (ethnic Israel) with the permanent spiritual reality (the Church). To argue that Christianity remains fundamentally tied to or derived from modern Judaism because of Christ's lineage is like arguing that a grown man is still a byproduct of his mother's womb rather than an independent being.

Question for you, have you ever read what the Talmud says about Christ by any chance?

The Talmud and the Koran both label christians as worthy of death.

 

[Wrangler]

It absolutely was explicitly condemned as a heresy by the Church at the 5th ecumenical council. And Jesus contradicts you in Matthew 25:46, calling it "eternal punishment"

A you don’t think …. “eternal punishment” can be reconciled with ”death is the wages of sin?” Like @Wick Stick, I believe in Annihiliism.

The Burning Bush wasn't holy because it was "terrible or slated for destruction", it was holy because the uncreated fire of the Logos was inside it.

What verse says that? You’ve obviously invested heavily in doctrine that the Bible doesn’t teach.

 

[David in NJ]

At this point, all I want to know from @Wrangler is:

Whether these are two gods or one God.

Exodus 3:14 “And God said to Moses, ‘I AM WHO I AM.’ And He said, ‘Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, “I AM has sent me to you.” (Burning bush)

John 8:58 “Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am”

I do have a question for you though. Since you agree that Rabbi Akiva and the Babylonian Talmud sawed themselves off from the True Vine, where exactly on the tree do you think Christ-rejectors were attached before they sawed themselves off after the Resurrection, given that Jesus explicitly stated in John 14:6 that no one comes to the Father except through Him?

So there never was a neutral 'Judaism' left over after the Resurrection that belonged to the Old Testament, you are either in the Church with the Messiah, or you are in Rabbinic Judaism with the Talmud and Bibi Netanyahu kissing the wall with @Wrangler

@Wrangler is a jehovah witness who does not believe Who CHRIST Actually IS

 

[Wrangler]

@Wrangler is a jehovah witness who does not believe Who CHRIST Actually IS

That’s not true. I’m not a JW.

 

[Wrangler]

By admitting you never heard of Rabbinic Judaism while trying to lecture on church history is the ultimate self-sabotage

Nearly all your posts contain gaslighting pronouncements. I go by what the Bible says, and speak the language of the Bible not anti-semites like you whose been indoctrinated with code words used as a weapon. I bet you cannot even answer this simple question; was Jesus a Jew?

 

[David in NJ]

To claim that God's holy Law is an un-salvific, punitive torture program designed for pure retaliation is the literal core blueprint of Marcionism, no matter how much you try to run from the label

The law is not salvic = Who the Law Represents is Salvation, for the Law is the WORD that was GOD in the Beginning

Thus the OT Scriptures Declare: The law of the LORD is Perfect, refreshing the soul."

Those who thru faith believed the Word of God in the OT were Saved = Same as for us Today
The BIG Difference is the Second Promise of the FATHER = Acts

CHRIST is Both the Fulfillment of the Law of GOD and HE is the Law of GOD.

We SEE this in the Gospel when CHRIST Says:
#1 - "Yet I say to you that in this place there is One greater than the temple"

#2 - "For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

#3 - "Take up your cross and follow ME"

 

[David in NJ]

That’s not true. I’m not a JW.

Well that's news to me for you always presented yourself to me as a jw!!!

Do you believe that JESUS Says "I AM HE" ???

 

[David in NJ]

That’s not true. I’m not a JW.

i am going out for a coffee - you're invited and coffee is on me..........Boonton Coffee located in Boonton, NJ

 

[Wrangler]

Well that's news to me for you always presented yourself to me as a jw!!!

Do you believe that JESUS Says "I AM HE" ???

Let’s not hijack this thread.

In today’s devotional reading, I began the book of Romans. The NSRV Cultural Bibles introduction affirms Christianity is derived from Judaism, pointing out chapter 11 tells Gentile Christians to respect Jewish believers and honor their shared heritage. Shared heritage? What’s that all about?

 

[Wrangler]

i am going out for a coffee - you're invited and coffee is on me..........Boonton Coffee located in Boonton, NJ

I’ll be there in spirit brother!

Romans 1:16 it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who has faith, to the Jew first and also for the Greek.

I think our new friends, @Rhetro,etc forgot that with the possible exception of Luke, every book of the Bible was written by the Jews.