You haven't proven what you allege here.
Okay, yeah, in your opinion. Fine. And I say the same to you, and you may call that my opinion; I have no problem with that.
The final judgment (GWTJ) tells us one the DEAD shall be judged when Christ returns. The born again righteous believers will not be judged at the GWT because we have already been judged in life...
I mean I understand; you've said this many times. I disagree. Again, the issue seems to be that you think John's
"the dead, great and small" is in the same context, and therefore means the same group of folks, as those who Paul says are
"dead in their trespasses" and thus
"children of wrath" in Ephesians 2, and I say that is absolutely not the case.
, and when we stand at the right hand of Christ one judgment DAY (one) believers will already have been changed from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible body!
I don't disagree with that, actually, RWB, which I've said before, but what you say here is very different than the one point of disagreement here between us, which is whether or not believers will be judged in the final Judgment or not.
Yes. You know, I'm really not sure why this is making you so angry, RWB, but there is really no need for such... vehemence... Yes, again, in Revelation 20:11,
"the dead, great and small" is inclusive of everyone, believer and unbeliever alike. And I cited several corroborating Scriptures in support of this in previous post (posts 67, 69, and 71, to be specific). You disagree. Well, okay. That's okay. It is. It's okay. <
smile> It really is okay.
...to accept this opinion we must say those who are already ETERNALLY ALIVE in Christ, are among the DEAD!
In John's context in Revelation 20, we are. John's context regarding
"the dead, great and small" is not the same as Paul's in Ephesians 2, as I have said. You disagree. Well, okay.
They are NOT! The are the living, even AFTER physical death.
Um... this is a rhetorical question, RWB, meant really to get you to think about what you are being so... well, so adamant about... The saints who, up to this point in time now... and us, if we pass before Jesus returns... are they living, or are they dead? You may have to think about that quite a while... <
smile> I would submit to you that the answer is...
yes... <
smile>
The righteous born-again Christians are not condemned because we shall not be counted with THE DEAD!
Well, because we will not be ~ and are no longer, even now ~ dead in our trespasses, but alive in Christ. But we will be among
"the dead, great and small," in the context of Revelation 20:11.
We will be on the right hand to hear Christ say:
Mt 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mt 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
We are on the right...
Agreed; never said anything to the contrary... But in saying that to us ~ actually in saying "
Come, you who are blessed by My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave Me food, I was thirsty and you gave Me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed Me, I was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you visited Me, I was in prison and you came to Me" ...what will Christ, in saying this to us, then be
actually doing? And
why?
According to what? <
smile>
because in life born again believers have already been judged through the righteousness of Christ by His Spirit in us!
Declared. Not judged.
Declared. By God. Paul says it...
"while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by His blood, much more shall we be saved by Him from the wrath of God..." (Romans 5:8-9). It's Jesus's righteousness that has been imputed to us by God's declaration, and this is His mercy and compassion, His
grace, given to us. And so, again...
"God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ ~ by grace you have been saved ~ and raised us up with Him and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages He might show the immeasurable riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast..."
You might believe that I misunderstand, but it is YOU, not I who cannot biblically prove what you allege.
<
eye roll> We disagree.
As I've said, you make no distinction between the judgment seat of Christ the church must endure in this life, and the great white throne judgment for the DEAD that shall be when Christ comes again.
Actually, I would say I
do, and
you do not, RWB. I think I've made that abundantly clear in at least two or three posts now, especially my last one.
You say the wicked will not stand in the final judgment?
They will not stand in the sense that they will... fail... be judged negatively, shall we say... in the final judgment. As David says in Psalm 1,
"Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous; for the Lord knows the way of the righteous, but the way of the wicked will perish." Even in this, we should be able to see the strong insinuation that even we who are in Christ and not among the wicked are very present in this final Judgment... and that we will also be judged... we will be judged first, and we see that in Matthew 25... but we will stand on Christ's merit rather than our own, because, yes, we are
not ~ even since our having been born again of the Spirit ~ and we will not then be...
dead in our sin.
Who are the DEAD being judged and cast into the eternal flames if not the wicked?
Right, but in the context of John's vision there in Revelation 20, this is not all "the dead, great and small," but only a portion of them.
Psalm 1 shows us why the wicked will not stand with the righteous,
Well yes, it does, but that's a different statement than the wicked not standing in the Judgment. See above.
We know from what is written the DEAD (never born again) will be there at His left hand.
And I say again that you are understanding the "dead, great and small" in a very different context than what it is there in John's Revelation in Revelation 20:11. There are places in the Bible, for sure, where the dead are referred to in the context you are insisting upon for Revelation 20:11, like Ephesians 2:1-3. But you are conflating the two, RWB. And as I say, certainly you may call that my opinion if you like, but it is what it is.
Another poster cited Hebrews 9:27 above...
"it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment." I mean, yeah, there it is...
You know, it's enough, man. Really. There's no need to keep going back and forth about this. It is enough.
Perhaps you might want to consider whether or not your own intelligence on this topic might need adjustment?
<
chuckles>
Grace and peace to you.