Poll. Will we be judged when we die?

[Ezra]

Will we be judged when we die?

Please vote and discuss

no need to discuss what does the Bible say. its appointed unto man once to die and after this the judgment .. as per the exact time hard to say rev 20 tells us some things . even Christains stands at the bema seat

 

[Dryhn]

This is interesting. <smile> There are two covenants, and they are not ~ as many suppose ~ the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. The two covenants are the Covenant of Works, whose mediator is Adam, and the Covenant of Grace, whose mediator is Christ Jesus. Adam and Eve were under the Covenant of Works. But Adam failed, in the events of Genesis 3, and the Covenant of Grace, established and first proclaimed by God in Genesis 3:15, has been in effect ever since then that point. Since Adam, there have been different administrations of this Covenant of Grace, none of which are not stand-alone covenants but cumulative, and finally fully revealed and made manifest in the Person of Jesus Christ. Or, we could say the New Covenant is stand-alone but contains all the previous adminstrations. The covenant of life was remade with Noah, covenant of land, nation, and descendants with Abram (who became Abraham), the covenant of the law with Moses, and the covenant of forever kingship with David. Jesus Christ is the full embodiment of all these "lesser" covenants:

1. He is the way, the truth and the life.
2. 
   
3. He is the Israel of God, and with Him we will inherit the whole earth... Matthew 5:5... not just a tiny land parcel on the eastern end of the Mediterranean Sea.
4. 
   
5. He is the true end of the Law, as Paul puts it in Romans 10:4, Christ is the Law, as Paul says in Galatians 6:2, and the writer of Hebrews says in Hebrews 7.
6. 
   
7. He is our Forever King... so "greater" in the sense that He is God's everlasting covenant ~ the New Covenant ~ in this sense.

Grace and peace to all.

Hi Pin, many believers post their thoughts/opinions in good faith which though sometimes is based on teachings relevant to another audience. I firmly hold to the salvific teachings of Christ that apply to me today and that is through His chosen Apostle Paul

 

[Dryhn]

That's a good question.
Unfortunately I don't know the answer to it.

Great White Throne is for those who are not saved, Judge Seat of Christ is for those saved during particular time/age eg right now

 

[PinSeeker]

…many believers post their thoughts/opinions in good faith

Okay, yeah, sure… <smile>

which though sometimes is based on teachings relevant to another audience.

Not sure what this even means… <chuckles>

I firmly hold to the salvific teachings of Christ that apply to me today and that is through His chosen Apostle Paul

Hm. Okay, well, good, but all Christ’s salvific teachings are very relevant and prescient and… apply… to all of us, right? And… there were eleven other apostles, you know. Paul wrote more than the orhers, but I wouldn’t say he was… “more chosen” …than any of the others…

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Dryhn]

Okay, yeah, sure… <smile>


Not sure what this even means… <chuckles>


Hm. Okay, well, good, but all Christ’s salvific teachings are very relevant and prescient and… apply… to all of us, right? And… there were eleven other apostles, you know. Paul wrote more than the orhers, but I wouldn’t say he was… “more chosen” …than any of the others…

Grace and peace to you.

Hi Pin, I've seen a simple reply elsewhere to a similar question & have decided to adopt it.
Gal 2:7-9
Who are you in those verses
Who did the apostles agree would teach you the Gospel ?

 

[Armour of God]

no need to discuss

And then you proceed to discuss it anyway.
LoL

its appointed unto man once to die and after this the judgment .. as per the exact time hard to say rev 20 tells us some things . even Christains stands at the bema seat

Thanks for your input
God bless

 

[brightmorningstar]

Right, including us, including believers. All will be judged according to what they have done. Which, again, we see graphically in Matthew 25:31-46, particularly verses 34-36 and 40 regarding believers, and in verses 42-43 and 45 regarding unbelievers. It's really impossible to read this passage and think, with any validity, that believers will not be judged in the final Judgment. We will be, but according to the righteousness of Christ, which we have now, as it's been credited to us, again, just as with Abraham long, long ago. So again, we are not exempt from the final Judgment... as the verses I cited in my post (91) above, and will do so again here:

That doesn't work for me. The texts don't say 'believers' or 'non-believers', that might be an assumption from when Jesus subsequently says receive the inheritance. But let us ask ourselves, who are these brethren of Jesus? Jesus refers the people on His right/sheep and the people on His left/goats to what they did or didn't do for His brethren. If we are either sheep or goats then who are these brethren of Jesus? So Jesus hasn't separated all the people because all these people on His right and left are being referred to His brethren, even the least of them.
My view is that we are His brethren, those who have faith in Christ Jesus, because Jesus has already said His disciples mathētēs are His brethren adelphos.
Matthew 25:31- is therefore how the world will be judged on how they treated believers.

"He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, He will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury" (Paul, Romans 2:6-8)

​

"...we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil." (Paul, 2 Corinthians 13:7;​

​

"...just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for Him" (Hebrews 9:27-28).​

Amen. But that doesn't detract from Matt 25-31-. If we take these verses, and John 5 for example it must be two judgments, one for the saved and one for the unsaved.

But we will with absolute certainty be judged according to the righteousness of Christ and will thus "pass," and will be "blessed by (the) Father (and) inherit (with Christ Jesus) the Kingdom prepared for (us) from the foundation of the world."

Grace and peace to you, BMS.

And all blessings to you PinSeeker

 

[PinSeeker]

Hi Pin, I've seen a simple reply elsewhere to a similar question & have decided to adopt it.
Gal 2:7-9
Who are you in those verses
Who did the apostles agree would teach you the Gospel ?

It seems to me you think Paul is saying something quite different than what he’s actually saying, there, Dry. I assume, from what you say, that you, like me, are a Gentile. If so, do you then disregard the teachings of Peter and/or any of the other apostles or somehow think their teachings are not applicable or irrelevant to you? Now, that question is really rhetorical; surely not.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

That doesn't work for me.

<chuckles> Okay, fair enough... <smile>

The texts don't say 'believers' or 'non-believers', that might be an assumption from when Jesus subsequently says receive the inheritance.

Oh, my. Okay, the saved and the unsaved, or, if you don’t accept that either… <chuckles> the sheep ~ Jesus’s sheep, those given to Him by the Father, who follow Him and hear and believe what He says because of that very fact (John 6, 8, and 10) ~ as opposed to the goats. The wheat as opposed to the tares. Those of God’s Israel as opposed to those not. Those born again of the Spirit as opposed to those not. All ways of saying the same thing. Goodness gracious.

But let us ask ourselves, who are these brethren of Jesus? Jesus refers the people on His right/sheep and the people on His left/goats… If we are either sheep or goats then who are these brethren of Jesus?

Well, those on His right, of course. In… wow, okay. In this life, we are to love everyone… do good to everyone. And for the most part… because we cannot know everyone, much less see their heart and know if they are Christ’s brothers or not… we do not know if we are doing these things for His brothers ~ believers ~ or not. And so… at the final Judgment, we will not really know when we did these good things for His ~ and even our ~ brethren. All of us who are in Christ are Christ’s brethren… sons of God, actually, but of course not the Son of God. I mean you know this, right? Surely you do…

So Jesus hasn't separated all the people because all these people on His right and left are being referred to His brethren, even the least of them.

Don’t understand this, uh, sentence…. But yes, the separation will occur just prior to the final Judgment. And those on His right will be all His brethren. Believers. See above.

My view is that we are His brethren, those who have faith in Christ Jesus, because Jesus has already said His disciples mathētēs are His brethren adelphos.

Just on this, yeah. Sure. Absolutely. Although I would say that we are not saved because of, or as a result of having this faith, which is God’s assurance, and conviction by the Spirit, of things unseen and hoped for (Hebrews 11:1) ~ we do not… cannot give this faith to or manufacture faith in ourselves; it has to, by definition, come from God, be gifted to us by God by the working of His Spirit in our heart. As Paul says, we are saved by God’s grace through ~ not by; this is a very important distinction ~ faith… so through His assurance and conviction by the Spirit… and this not of ourselves but the gift of God Himself by His Spirit (Ephesians 2).

Matthew 25:31- is therefore how the world will be judged on how they treated believers.

How we will all be judged.

Amen. But that doesn't detract from Matt 25-31-. If we take these verses, and John 5 for example it must be two judgments, one for the saved and one for the unsaved.

It is two, not in the sense of two different events separated by any significant amount of time (so it is one big event in that sense), but with respect to the result for one group as opposed to the other:

1. those on His right ~ yes, His sheep, those given to Him by the Father, who in this life heard his voice and believed in Him and what He said, so, yes, believers <smile>
2. …as opposed to those on His left ~ yes, those not given to Him by the Father, who in this life did not hear and listen His voice and did not believe in Him or what He said, so, yes, unbelievers. <smile>

But, just sequentially, yes, those on His right will be judged first.

And all blessings to you PinSeeler.

And to you! Grace and peace to you.

 

[Dryhn]

It seems to me you think Paul is saying something quite different than what he’s actually saying, there, Dry. I assume, from what you say, that you, like me, are a Gentile. If so, do you then disregard the teachings of Peter and/or any of the other apostles or somehow think their teachings are not applicable or irrelevant to you? Now, that question is really rhetorical; surely not.

Grace and peace to you.

Hey Pin, thank you for your opinion
Acts 9:15, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16, Gal 1:11-12 is that Paul or Peter who Christ chose ?

Gal 2:7-9
Who are you in those verses ?
Who do those verses teach is the apostle to teach you the Gospel ?

 

[prism]

The justified sinner/saint had already been judged in Christ at Calvary, and his sins have already been imputed to Christ; meanwhile, His righteousness becomes ours through faith in Him. Consequently we are to live out our life with a heart full of gratitude.

 

[Brakelite]

I agree, we are judged in life according to our works, that is why Paul, speaking to the body of Christ (church) says "we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ" during our lifetime. The judgment seat of Christ, unlike the great white throne judgment helps believers to grow in faith and obedience by listening to and heeding the Holy Spirit in us. The GWTJ is not for born again believers, it shall be for the DEAD, those who die never having been born again. Their works in life will testify or judge against them because they never had faith to believe in Christ. Without faith it is impossible to please God, which is why Christ says, "Ye must be born again".

Hebrews 11:6 (KJV) But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

I noticed in a previous post of yours that being "born again" comes to individuals at the second coming...u you stand by that?

 

[Brakelite]

So when was the judgement held that decided who would appear before the judgement seat of Christ, and who would appear before the GWT judgement?

 

[Brakelite]

The justified sinner/saint had already been judged in Christ at Calvary, and his sins have already been imputed to Christ; meanwhile, His righteousness becomes ours through faith in Him. Consequently we are to live out our life with a heart full of gratitude.

Didn't Jesus die for the whole world? What decided the difference between those who go to heaven and those who don't? Those saved, and those not? Those who go with Jesus when He comes, and those who cry out to the rocks and mountains to fall on them?

 

[rwb]

I noticed in a previous post of yours that being "born again" comes to individuals at the second coming...u you stand by that?

You'll have to provide the quote, because I have never believed, nor have I ever said that individuals are born again at the second coming. Man is born again the moment they believe in Christ through the power of His Gospel and Spirit.

 

[rwb]

So when was the judgement held that decided who would appear before the judgement seat of Christ, and who would appear before the GWT judgement?

The body of Christ (church) are those who shall in this life stand before the judgment seat of Christ throughout this age. Only the DEAD shall appear before the GWTJ to be judged according to what is written in the books and the book of life, and that shall be after the seventh trumpet begins to sound that time given this earth wherein man must be born again shall be on the last day.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Didn't Jesus die for the whole world? What decided the difference between those who go to heaven and those who don't? Those saved, and those not? Those who go with Jesus when He comes, and those who cry out to the rocks and mountains to fall on them?

Jesus did die for the whole world, but He has made a way, He hasn't saved everyone. Faith in Christ saves and that means seeking to follow Jesus, what He said and what He did.

 

[Brakelite]

Jesus did die for the whole world, but He has made a way, He hasn't saved everyone. Faith in Christ saves and that means seeking to follow Jesus, what He said and what He did.

Just to clarify, you believe becoming saved means adding self effort to what He has already accomplished? I mean, I know we have a part to play in our eternal destiny, but are you sure that our actual salvation is something that entails anything of our own doing?

 

[brightmorningstar]

Just to clarify, you believe becoming saved means adding self effort to what He has already accomplished? I mean, I know we have a part to play in our eternal destiny, but are you sure that our actual salvation is something that entails anything of our own doing?

Clarified, I agree. All done by Jesus, we have a part to play

 

[soberxp]

I believe that both believers and non-believers will undergo God’s judgment, because in my view this is a necessary process. Without going through this process, no one can truly grow up and become an adult instead of remaining an infant forever. In my view, no one can say, “I fully understand and comprehend God’s words and wisdom.”