rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Spoiler alert...the answer clue is in the last few sentences of the Holy Bible.
....as to WHAT the rapture is.
The Case for a Post-Tribulation Second Coming
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Spoiler alert...the answer clue is in the last few sentences of the Holy Bible.
....as to WHAT the rapture is.
It could be looked at this way:
o. Born in Bethlehem = first coming (Luke 2:4-7)
o. Descending to a cloud = second coming (1Thessalonians 4:16-17)
o. Returning with angels = third coming (Revelation 19:11-21)
o. Escort to new heavens = fourth coming (Revelation 21, 22)
o. Born in Bethlehem = first coming (Luke 2:4-7)
o. Descending to a cloud = second coming (1Thessalonians 4:16-17)
o. Returning with angels = third coming (Revelation 19:11-21)
o. Escort to new heavens = fourth coming (Revelation 21, 22)
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For those who put the Rapture and the Second Coming at roughly the same time, I offer this list of contrasts between the Rapture and the Second Coming. Each number in one section corresponds to the same number in the other/lower section. This is also a list that supports the Rapture happening before the Tribulation, and the Second Coming happening at the end of the Tribulation.
At the Rapture:
1. Christ comes FOR His own in the air
2. All believers are translated into new bodies
3. Christians are taken to the Father's House
4. There is no judgment on the earth
5. The Church will be in Heaven
6. It is an imminent occurrence
7. There are no signs preceding it
8. It affects believers only
9. It is a time of joy
10. it occurs before the day of Wrath
11. No mention of Satan
12. The Judgment Seat of Christ happens next
13. There is the marriage of the Lamb
14. Only Christ's own will see him
15. The Tribulation begins
At the Second Coming:
1. Christ comes WITH his own
2. No Translation of bodies
3. resurrected saints remain on earth
4. Christ judges the inhabitants of the earth
5. Christ sets up his kingdom on earth
6. It can not occur until the seven-year Trib period
7. There are numerous signs preceding it
8. It affects all humanity
9. It is a time of mourning
10. It occurs after the Tribulation
11. Satan is bound in abyss 1,000 years
12. No judgment seat of Christ
13. His bride descends with him to earth
14. Every eye will see him
15. The millennial reign of Christ begins
At the Rapture:
1. Christ comes FOR His own in the air
2. All believers are translated into new bodies
3. Christians are taken to the Father's House
4. There is no judgment on the earth
5. The Church will be in Heaven
6. It is an imminent occurrence
7. There are no signs preceding it
8. It affects believers only
9. It is a time of joy
10. it occurs before the day of Wrath
11. No mention of Satan
12. The Judgment Seat of Christ happens next
13. There is the marriage of the Lamb
14. Only Christ's own will see him
15. The Tribulation begins
At the Second Coming:
1. Christ comes WITH his own
2. No Translation of bodies
3. resurrected saints remain on earth
4. Christ judges the inhabitants of the earth
5. Christ sets up his kingdom on earth
6. It can not occur until the seven-year Trib period
7. There are numerous signs preceding it
8. It affects all humanity
9. It is a time of mourning
10. It occurs after the Tribulation
11. Satan is bound in abyss 1,000 years
12. No judgment seat of Christ
13. His bride descends with him to earth
14. Every eye will see him
15. The millennial reign of Christ begins
I would say Revelation 14:14 is the rapture of living believers to heaven. Jesus does not set foot on the earth at that time, but it still is a coming to the sky of the earth, occurring at the seventh ("last" of seven) trumpet (1Corinthians15:51-52).
Revelation 19:11 is the return of Jesus to earth with all believers who have ever lived. That is a coming.
I would say Jesus's birth was a coming, since what was in Mary was the direct action of God the Father, implanting the seed of the man Jesus into the womb of Mary.
Likewise I suppose the departure of Jesus from the grave was a coming, since he came and appeared to many witnesses before returning to heaven.
He is a busy person.
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rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Rev 14;14,15 is not the gathering of the bride.
It is a gathering of the Jews.
That gathering has 144,000 JEWISH FIRSTFRUITS.
The rapture has Jesus as its firdtfruits.
In rev 14;14,15 there is no resurrection.
In the rapture, the dead rise first.
In rev 14;14,15, the firstfruit Jews are gathered first.
The elephant in the room is the OMISSION of:
1) the time off the Gentiles ending and the time of the gentiles fulfilled.
2) the bride dynamic which is nowhere in revelation fourteen
3) at the rapture the dead in christ rise first
4) in revelation thirteen, the AC is given power over the saints. And everyone not written in the book, refusing the mark is MARTYRED.
So that right there is before.
The gathering of revelation fourteen.
3 VIVID, DISTINCT, DOCTRINE SHATTERING, THEORY SHATTERING, COMINGS.
1) The rapture pretrib that Jesus taught.
2) the gathering of the Jews in rev 14;14,15.
3) the second coming on white horses.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Mostly agree.
However there is a third of rev 14;14,15.
The gathering of the Jews, preceded by Jewish firstfruits.
Of course God knows....but you seem to be posting as if you also know.
What does "separating the wheat from the tares" mean?
Is your opinion set in stone? I ask because you just posted sound good verses that didn't mention a separation.
RandyDawson
Active Member
Lessons from the Fellowship of the Charred Finger!
I hear they like to have barbecues for their parishioners.
You forget the time the faithful go to meet the Lord in the air at which time Jesus is clearly not setting foot on earth so this is not what many describe as His second coming. See 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 and 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18
Meeting the Lord in the air happens after He took upon Himself flesh and was born in to the world but before He physically returns to earth (landing on the Mount of Olives, splitting the mountain in two) to setup His earthly Kingdom and rules for 1000 years.
It's not biblical for me to sit under the authority / teaching of women.
Maybe her husband can help her understand which is who should be teaching the married women.
jeffweeder
Well-Known Member
Yes they do mention a separation into 2 groups
Acts 17- God has set a day for the inhabited world to be judged. Those who do not repent suffer the judgment
30 Therefore God overlooked and disregarded the former ages of ignorance; but now He commands all people everywhere to repent [that is, to change their old way of thinking, to regret their past sins, and to seek God’s purpose for their lives], 31 because He has set a day when He will judge the inhabited world in righteousness by a Man whom He has appointed and destined for that task, and He has provided credible proof to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”
2Thess 1 -
6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire,
Matt 25:31 is no different.
jeffweeder
Well-Known Member
The rapture/our glorification, occurs at his coming, so start reading from there.
Peter looks for a NHNE in his glorified state as he waits for his coming.
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will vanish with a [mighty and thunderous] roar, and the [material] elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and the works that are on it will be burned up.
11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be [in the meantime] in holy behavior [that is, in a pattern of daily life that sets you apart as a believer] and in godliness [displaying profound reverence toward our awesome God], 12 [while you earnestly] look for and await the coming of the day of God.
For on this day the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the [material] elements will melt with intense heat! 13 But in accordance with His promise we expectantly await new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.
3 First of all, know [without any doubt] that mockers will come in the last days with their mocking, following after their own human desires 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming [what has become of it]? For ever since the fathers fell asleep [in death], all things have continued [exactly] as they did from the beginning of creation.”
5 For they willingly forget [the fact] that the heavens existed long ago by the word of God, and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6 through which the world at that time was destroyed by being flooded with water. 7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly people.
It’s actually from a parable in the Bible (Gospel of Matthew). Basically, someone plants weeds—called tares—in a wheat field, and since they look exactly the same while they're growing, you can't tell them apart. The farmer lets them both grow until the harvest so he doesn't accidentally pull up the good wheat, and then he separates the weeds to get rid of them.
I don't disagree. Even after the pre-trib rapture the world will still be inhabited.
Even after the 4th horseman in Rev 6 kills 1/4 of the 8 billion population of the world...it still will be inhabited.
Is this the rapture? If it is the rapture it sounds pre-trib to me.
God removes the wheat and leaves the tares for the tribulation.
Why do christians object to that? Do those christians want to go through the tribulation?
jeffweeder
Well-Known Member
It's impossible to have a pretrib rapture/glorification event, as the Lord comes in eternal vengeance upon the inhabited world when he comes to glorify us and none escape his judgment.
2Thess 1
This is a plain indication of God’s righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which indeed you are suffering. 6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed.
I don't disagree....why do you continue to post these verses and claim they don't support a pre-trib rapture?
jeffweeder
Well-Known Member
Matt 13
36 Then He left the crowds and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him saying, “Explain [clearly] to us the parable of the weeds in the field.” 37 He answered, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man, 38 and the field is the world; and [as for] the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the weeds are the sons of the evil one; 39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels. 40 So just as the weeds are gathered up and burned in the fire, so will it be at the end of the age.
30 Let them grow together until the harvest; and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, “First gather the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”
The tares are not left for the Tribulation but are gathered first,
The tares don't go through the tribulation? Is that what you're saying this parable teaches?
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