Sinless Perfection. Why do so many teach against what Jesus taught?

[shepherdsword]

The nuance here is that all are a part of what God has redeemed to Himself. Well not exactly all, but more than just those who believe. Jesus did not come to condemn the world but to save it.

The problem is with the translation. The word translated as ON is actually INTO (eis). So this has to do with translation into the kingdom realm. The context is the kingdom of God. Remember a little back in the chapter Jesus talked about being born from above and ENTERING into the kingdom? How? By believing INTO Christ.

So the context is...those whose faith gets them translated into the kingdom realm in Christ to walk in His life....will not be condemned....but those who do not have that kind of faith are already condemned.

Jesus is not making up religion based on beliefs. That is Luther.

I agree with "into" (eis) John makes that clear in his later epistle:

1 Jn 5:11-12
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

Does all the world have the Son? This seems to imply that not all do.

He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

 

[Episkopos]

I agree with "into" (eis) John makes that clear in his later epistle:

1 Jn 5:11-12
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

Does all the world have the Son? This seems to imply that not all do.

He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

That's right. We are to have life NOW...eternal life. Those who are God's are invited to share His life right now. Being in 2 places at once...a life SUPERIMPOSED on a life. A life IN a life.

This is a mystery that carnal men can't fathom. How can a man be both on earth AND seated in heavenly places at the same time? The carnal man will say that is just philosophy or a euphemism...not knowing the power of God. But we are empowered FROM heaven to walk as Jesus walked. That is the gospel in full resolution. We overcome as Jesus did in this walk.

What about the meek? Well, the gospel is in 2 resolutions...for the world (based on mercy) and for the church (based on glory).

So the gospel in low resolution is...God will have mercy on the merciful. He will forgive those who forgive others.

 

[shepherdsword]

That's right. We are to have life NOW...eternal life. Those who are God's are invited to share His life right now. Being in 2 places at once...a life SUPERIMPOSED on a life. A life IN a life.

This is a mystery that carnal men can't fathom. How can a man be both on earth AND seated in heavenly places at the same time? The carnal man will say that is just philosophy or a euphemism...not knowing the power of God. But we are empowered FROM heaven to walk as Jesus walked. That is the gospel in full resolution. We overcome as Jesus did in this walk.

What about the meek? Well, the gospel in in 2 resolutions...for the world (based on mercy) and for the church (based on glory).

So the gospel in low resolution is...God will have mercy on the merciful. He will forgive those who forgive others.

Well, there is a mystery of redemption and salvation packed into this obscure verse. He devises a mean by which His banished are not expelled:

2 Sa 14:14 For we must needs die, and are as water spilt on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again; neither doth God respect any person: yet doth he devise means, that his banished be not expelled from him.


All I really know is this...God will do what is right and we will all be satisfied that His decisions are just, even if they are against us. Until that time, it's my opinion, that we encourage others to have Faith in God...and not depend on their own meekness or righteousness

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

He condemns those who read the bible and refuse to submit to the truth.

You mean like the truth that sin is atoned for through the sacrifice of Jesus, not your works of righteousness?

You are refusing to submit to this truth. You condemn yourself by your own words.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

So the context is...those whose faith gets them translated into the kingdom realm in Christ to walk in His life....will not be condemned....but those who do not have that kind of faith are already condemned.

It’s what you say men are to have faith in that is wrong in your religion.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

Jesus is not making up a religion based on beliefs.

Christianity is based on believing that Christ is the sacrifice through which atonement is made.

There is no sacrifice of Jesus for atonement in your religion. Your Jesus is a false Jesus who came to cast down the law of sacrifice. The very thing the real Jesus said he did NOT come to do. You think atonement is made by doing the works of the law. It ignores and rejects the law of sacrifice for justification.

Your religion appeals to people too proud to admit they cannot be righteous enough to enter into the kingdom of God. Christianity is for people who can humbly admit they can never be righteousness enough to enter the kingdom. In their humility they rely on a declaration of righteous given to them as a free gift of God’s grace. Until such a time in the age to come when they will walk in the righteousness that for now God credits them to get them through the coming judgement.

This does not mean Christians can and do live in unrighteousness. For the believer in Christ‘s sacrifice receives a measure of the Holy Spirit by which he lives a life of ever-increasing righteousness/holiness. Pretenders, as you like to call them, show they have not received God’s forgiveness in Christ by faith and actually belong to your group, the group that denies his sacrifice in unbelief. Don’t go saying they belong to us. They don’t. They belong to you.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

Unless a man is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter INTO the kingdom of God.

Well, you got the water part down - flesh giving birth to flesh. What you lack is the spiritual birth that happens when a person has faith in God’s promise of a Son, Jesus, who inherits the blessing on our behalf.

You birth a man according to the flesh who does not share in the inheritance with the man born according to the promise by the Spirit. You are Ishmael, born of the reasoning and effort of the flesh to fulfill the promise of God, and who has no share in the inheritance with the Son born as the result of faith in the Promise of a Son. Galatians 4:22-31

 

[JustMe]

Yes...when we give mercy we receive mercy. When we forgive we are forgiven. The evangelical two-step comes from the enemy that seeks to destroy righteousness and holiness in the world. Why is it so important to condemn others in order to justify self? Because people are fighting over the same scraps (filthy rags) of righteousness...that the righteous don't even claim for themselves, or defend themselves.

God has not forsaken the world. Jesus is not daring us to not believe in Him....so that He can condemn us. Jesus came to save the world. He loves the righteous. God does not condemn non-bible readers. He condemns those who read the bible and refuse to submit to the truth.

I’ve noticed some of your recent posts on this thread—specifically those of this morning responses—that rely heavily on implied criticism rather than direct correction. Your comments often suggest elitism or dismissiveness toward fellow believers, raising concerns about their intent and spiritual message. For instance, you frequently emphasize judgment based on strict adherence to Scripture while cryptically referencing concepts like grace versus law.

Could you clarify your spiritual framework? It seems you advocate for rigorous compliance with scripture as a safeguard against complacency, yet I’m puzzled by the defensiveness in statements like “God has mercy on whom He wills.” This phrasing appears to mask anxiety about your own personal and communal faith integrity, and then concurrently positioning yourself as an exemplar striving toward Christ-like perfection.

Additionally, your communication style—cryptic references (soteriology), and theatrical warnings (the evangalical "two-step")—comes across more like grandstanding than genuine dialogue. While this may entertain some readers, it risks alienating those seeking substantive spiritual guidance. If it's your intention to be constructive in your responses then your language should reveal it; it is absent of late.

 

[Episkopos]

I’ve noticed some of your recent posts on this thread—specifically those of this morning responses—that rely heavily on implied criticism rather than direct correction. Your comments often suggest elitism or dismissiveness toward fellow believers, raising concerns about their intent and spiritual message. For instance, you frequently emphasize judgment based on strict adherence to Scripture while cryptically referencing concepts like grace versus law.

it all depends on what is being claimed. The Pharisees didn't have to claim to know God and His ways. But because they did, their sin remained.

I am usually accused of being too inclusive. One has to understand the bible without going in circles...either always steering to the right (Conservative) or left (liberal).

Could you clarify your spiritual framework? It seems you advocate for rigorous compliance with scripture as a safeguard against complacency, yet I’m puzzled by the defensiveness in statements like “God has mercy on whom He wills.” This phrasing appears to mask anxiety about your own personal and communal faith integrity, and then concurrently positioning yourself as an exemplar striving toward Christ-like perfection.

Notice both the goodness and severity of God. God is both merciful AND a God of truth.

Additionally, your communication style—cryptic references (soteriology), and theatrical warnings (the evangalical "two-step")—comes across more like grandstanding than genuine dialogue. While this may entertain some readers, it risks alienating those seeking substantive spiritual guidance. If it's your intention to be constructive in your responses then your language should reveal it; it is absent of late.

It depends on who I'm addressing. I often give long and detailed answers to people who are not genuine seekers...but just mockers. I do that for the greater good. The extent of the ignorance and arrogance shown by some here does not lend itself to a step by step advancement into greater truth in clarity and depth.

I have made MANY posts that are clear, concise, and biblical. One just has to go back in the thread to find such. Otherwise I would just continue to ignore foolish statements.

 

[MostlyConfused]

Episkopos, I know I have already thanked you but I just need to do so again. I can’t even express my gratitude at the help you’ve given me by freely sharing what you were given, this key that began to unlock scripture for me. I keep feeling that I need to give you encouragement because I’ve received so much of it from you. I have prayed for you in a selfish way but now I pray for you much differently.

 

[JustMe]

it all depends on what is being claimed. The Pharisees didn't have to claim to know God and His ways. But because they did, their sin remained.

I am usually accused of being too inclusive. One has to understand the bible without going in circles...either always steering to the right (Conservative) or left (liberal).


Notice both the goodness and severity of God. God is both merciful AND a God of truth.







It depends on who I'm addressing. I often give long and detailed answers to people who are not genuine seekers...but just mockers. I do that for the greater good. The extent of the ignorance and arrogance shown by some here does not lend itself to a step by step advancement into greater truth in clarity and depth.

I have made MANY posts that are clear, concise, and biblical. One just has to go back in the thread to find such. Otherwise I would just continue to ignore foolish statements.

So let me provide your example of what I call a cryptic loaded language you continue to provide that usually turns people off. I'm still scratching my head why you continue to communicate this way.

when you said:
"Notice both the goodness and severity of God. God is both merciful AND a God of truth."

My version of this statement....that expands the meaning for better communications.

Remember that God is both merciful (compassionate) and a "God of truth" (just/righteous), inviting believers to embrace these non-sequential attributes as interwoven facets of his divine nature.

Norice that I transform your statement into a version that your wide audience might appreciate.

just saying .....

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

Episkopos, I know I have already thanked you but I just need to do so again. I can’t even express my gratitude at the help you’ve given me by freely sharing what you were given, this key that began to unlock scripture for me. I keep feeling that I need to give you encouragement because I’ve received so much of it from you. I have prayed for you in a selfish way but now I pray for you much differently.

His doctrine leads away from the necessary sacrifice for atonement. You can not be reconciled to God by trying real hard to be righteous. You're not righteous enough for that to be the way to be right with God. But if you think you are, then so be it. Good luck with that.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

I have made MANY posts that are clear, concise, and biblical.

You have completely ignored the scriptures I have posted that make it impossible to believe what you believe.

 

[ProDeo]

That's right. We are to have life NOW...eternal life. Those who are God's are invited to share His life right now. Being in 2 places at once...a life SUPERIMPOSED on a life. A life IN a life.

This is a mystery that carnal men can't fathom. How can a man be both on earth AND seated in heavenly places at the same time?

Efez 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
Efez 2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ— by grace you have been saved—
Efez 2:6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
Efez 2:7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

Note that Paul in Romans 6 already said we were crucified with Him, raised with Him repeated in Col 3:1

This actually needs a thread of it own, is it true what you believe, that there are 2 of us at different places, I am inclined to say yes because that's what the text is saying. Especially because of the words : so that, meaning there is a reason for it.

Aside of the goal (to witness the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus through the ages) the 2 of us at different places raises questions, our heavenly self is sinless, has a glorified body, our heavenly self watches the progress of our earthly self? And it sounds like OSAS.

And also as you addressed, does it gives our earthly self power over sin.

Shoot!

 

[Episkopos]

Efez 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
Efez 2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ— by grace you have been saved—
Efez 2:6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
Efez 2:7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

Note that Paul in Romans 6 already said we were crucified with Him, raised with Him repeated in Col 3:1

This actually needs a thread of it own, is it true what you believe, that there are 2 of us at different places, I am inclined to say yes because that's what the text is saying. Especially because of the words : so that, meaning there is a reason for it.

Aside of the goal (to witness the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus through the ages) the 2 of us at different places raises questions, our heavenly self is sinless, has a glorified body, our heavenly self watches the progress of our earthly self? And it sounds like OSAS.

And also as you addressed, does it gives our earthly self power over sin.

Shoot!

In Deut. 19:21 it reads in Hebrew a life IN a life (nephesh benephesh)....an eye IN an eye....a hand in a hand....a foot in a foot. Of course the translators know nothing of this so they translate the verse the same way as when it says a life FOR a life (nephesh tachat nephesh)

The mystery of Christ is that we can enter into Him and be where He is AND remain in our bodies. That is walking in the Spirit. That is the victory over sin and this world. To abide IN Him....as I've been saying for many years now.

Our power over sin is from heaven. For Christ to dwell in us and walk in us. "Where I am you will also be". Being translated into the kingdom realm so that Jesus will say....I know you!

Not exactly OSAS. We can fall from that place through sin....and be restored once again through repentance. So we go in and out of the gate (Christ) and find pasture both IN Jerusalem (which is above) and outside it.

This is both fully biblical AND my own testimony.

 

[Lizbeth]

That is a universal truth....life is found only in the Son.


That is a religious extrapolation that is not accurate. We know that the meek of the earth don't perish. The world will not be judged based on beliefs but on actions...deeds and works. So one must put a verse into context and not seek to destroy the majority of the biblical narrative for the preferred reading of a verse or two.

The correct and balanced context is that indeed faith saves people from perishing. But it doesn't say that that any in the world who don't believe will perish. The context of John 3 is the people of God. Israel at that time....and by extension the church in our time.

So the unbelief is in the church...not the world. The world is held to a different standard....that is NOT based on walking in the light.


To please God yes...but to be accepted by God we need to DO righteousness and fear God. One verse does not cancel out the larger weight of scripture,

If we wish to approach God....we will need faith in His character and ability to transform us and translate us to walk as Jesus walked.

Faith has always been the standard, even before the Law and also before the cross. But we also see that by works was their faith made perfect. Abel is the first example, Noah is also an example, as well as the widow of Zarephath, Rahab another example, and Naaman the leper, etc. All who had faith in the OT, Jew or Gentile alike DID something by faith that showed their faith.

Can't isolate one verse like "the meek shall inherit the earth" and make a universal doctrine out of it........we need to look at it in light of other scripture. In that same Psalm 37 it also says "they who wait on the LORD will inherit the earth", so even just going by that one, who are the meek in God's eyes? They are those who through faith submit and look to HIM in humility and meekness. It is not meekness apart from faith in God.

Do a word search of the word "meek" and see how it is not a meekness apart from the Lord. It is those who in meekness have faith in HIM, who in meekness seek HIM, who come to HIM, who obey HIM, who give praise to HIM, who pay vows to HIM, etc. It is meekness in relation to HIM, not in relation to other men apart from the Lord.

 

[MostlyConfused]

His doctrine leads away from the necessary sacrifice for atonement. You can not be reconciled to God by trying real hard to be righteous. You're not righteous enough for that to be the way to be right with God. But if you think you are, then so be it. Good luck with that.

I have begun to experience the love I lacked and prayed for for so long. Your arguments are no match for this love, this experience OF that love. So you should just consider me lost and not waste your breath on me.

 

[Lizbeth]

So you're not going to address your false assertion that the world is held to a different standard than the church?

"...it doesn't say that that any in the world who don't believe will perish. The context of John 3 is the people of God. Israel at that time....and by extension the church in our time.

So the unbelief is in the church...not the world. The world is held to a different standard....that is NOT based on walking in the light."

He won't directly address anything that proves him wrong on any point. I'm getting so tired of his jumbled up theology.

 

[Lizbeth]

I agree with "into" (eis) John makes that clear in his later epistle:

1 Jn 5:11-12
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

Does all the world have the Son? This seems to imply that not all do.

He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Amen. And "he who has not the Son has not the Father either". No one can come to God but by the Son.

 

[Lizbeth]

So the unbelief is in the church...not the world. The world is held to a different standard....that is NOT based on walking in the light.

Act 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at (overlooked); but now commandeth ALL men EVERY WHERE to REPENT