Sinless Perfection. Why do so many teach against what Jesus taught?

[Episkopos]

So devout Muslims will be given eternal life on the new Earth without knowing or even rejecting Christ ???

Every knee will bow. I think you meant receiving Christ.

When we receive a saint of the Lord are we not receiving Christ whom sends Him? The least of these my brethren? So then people of other faiths have indeed received the Lord and served Him....by serving His brethren. That's more than many believers have done.

That's an UR core verse from Scripture, hope you realize.

God's mercy does not stop at death, not in Scripture, but it comes down what you are preaching here.



Matt 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
Matt 25:32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
Matt 25:33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left.
Matt 25:34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
Matt 25:35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,
Matt 25:36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’

Good news for Atheists ??

I don't know about atheists. Fear of the Lord is required for righteousness. There is a holiness commandment after all.

 

[Lizbeth]

Bologna. Faith is towards God not your religious certainty. This statement of yours is so obviously false that some here will agree with it.

I see both fear of the Lord as well as assurance and encouragement as being fed to the child of God by the Lord in accordance with our true spiritual need at any given time or circumstance, and according to His will and wisdom. They are not material or fleshly things even though we may feel them in our emotions........but they are spiritual in nature. And we can err by overemphasizing in either direction if we're not careful.

 

[Episkopos]

Correction: If he doesn't claim the offer of salvation by believing in it, then he can't be saved.

That is the argument. Stop hearing an argument for salvation that is not being made.

You are believing in a church offer...not Christ. Believing in IT.....is not the same as believing to be where Jesus is. Believing INTO Christ.

The promise of God is if you acknowledge that Jesus is Lord, and you believe by faith that he is the sacrifice that God has provided for the forgiveness of sin and a turning away of God's wrath, you will be saved. That is the faith that saves.

Saved from the lake of fire, perhaps....but not saved TO BE where Jesus is. There are 2 cuts or steps to salvation IN Christ. The first indeed saves you from the world....but many who say Lord Lord will be rejected into outer darkness because they are liars and thieves of grace.

Romans 10:8-9
8...that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Saved from the lake of fire...

We can tell who really believes this message and has received it into themselves and retained it in their heart by if they then begin to live for God. The pretenders, as you call them, show by how they live that they really don't believe Jesus is Lord and have not placed their faith and trust in his sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin. That's an indictment against them, not the gospel message.

There are nuances to this of course. Some soldiers are rejected for having flat feet. Others because they run away when the enemy shoots at them. Still others are insubordinate and refuse orders.

Yet all these men are in the same army.

A revolt in the ranks claims that officers are not to be obeyed. The movement spreads. The rebellion takes in the whole army. (This has happened in war many times in history). How likely is it that God will allow such rebels into His kingdom?

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

Your Jesus is Jesus Barabbas...who is in the bible.... but as a thief and brigand.

No. My Jesus is the one who was led away for crimes he did not commit.
I am Barabbas who was released, despite the crimes I have committed.
Remember, 'mercy triumphs over judgment'.

Jesus ransomed me and took my place in Judgment so I could be set free. That's how ransoms work.

Since you reject Jesus' ransom for you, you will be lead away and punished for your sin. If you would just believe, by faith, that God in his mercy let Jesus take your place in judgment so you can be set free you can be saved, too. But if you stubbornly refuse to believe that in unbelief you cannot have the mercy of God that he offers.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

You are believing in a church offer...not Christ.

You mean this offer?

Isaiah 65:2
2All day long I have held out My hands
to an obstinate peopleb
who walk in the wrong path,
who follow their own imaginations

Don't you realize the 'offer' proclaimed by the church is the offer of salvation through Christ?

Believing in IT.....is not the same as believing to be where Jesus is. Believing INTO Christ.

This is just meaningless word salad.
It has no practical meaning or application.
This is just mystical jabber.

Our message is practical and meaningful.
When you repent and believe in God's offer of forgiveness you are forgiven and saved and included in the inheritance as sons of God.

 

[Episkopos]

No. My Jesus is the one who was led away for crimes he did not commit.
I am Barabbas who was released, despite the crimes I have committed.
Remember, 'mercy triumphs over judgment'.

Jesus ransomed me and took my place in Judgment so I could be set free. That's how ransoms work.

You are indeed Barabbas.

Since you reject Jesus' ransom for you, you will be lead away and punished for your sin. I

You accuse me of rejecting Christ because I am not a religious opportunist like you...Barabbas, the thief and brigand. My hope is in Christ...without any religious certainty. My faith is in Christ not my salvation exploited from Him. I am not trying to save my life. My life is not my own. I am fully in God's care and at His mercy.

I claim nothing for myself, but to serve Christ and others. Where God puts me is up to Him. My HOPE is that God will find a place for me. I ask the Lord to NOT send me to a place of dishonour...since many many will be sent there...especially in these rebellious times.

f you would just believe, by faith, that God in his mercy let Jesus take your place in judgment so you can be set free you can be saved, too. But if you stubbornly refuse to believe that in unbelief you cannot have the mercy of God that he offers.

That is a fiction that is being filtered through a mind that doesn't know God or His ways. it is a religious scheme that you put your faith in...because you don't know the Lord.

 

[Episkopos]

You mean this offer?

Isaiah 65:2
2All day long I have held out My hands
to an obstinate peopleb
who walk in the wrong path,
who follow their own imaginations

Don't you realize the 'offer' proclaimed by the church is the offer of salvation through Christ?

The irony. You are indeed following your own imagination. You reject what I say because you are religiously obstinate.

You really don't understand that being saved FROM the world is not the same at all as being saved INTO the kingdom.

Most Israelites died in the wilderness. Most believers also die in the wilderness. Many are called few are chosen.

Jesus will say to the lawless workers of iniquity....go away I never knew you. Even if they had important ministries. They strained out little sins and swallowed huge lies. And taught them....as you are doing. Naming and claiming great things for yourself without any say so from God.

This is just meaningless word salad.
It has no practical meaning or application.
This is just mystical jabber.

Our message is practical and meaningful.
When you repent and believe in God's offer of forgiveness you are forgiven and saved and included in the inheritance as sons of God.

Repent, fear God, humble yourself. You may yet be hid on the day of God's wrath on His own people.

 

[MostlyConfused]

No, lol, that's not what being saved by faith in God means.
Being saved by faith means you believe God's promise about salvation through Jesus Christ.
When you put your faith in what God has said about salvation he does what he promised to do, he saves you.

Romans 10:13
13“Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”f

Romans 10:11
11“Anyone who believes in Him will never be put to shame.”e

Our friend the tax collector in Luke 18:13-14 is an example of this. There is no 'naming and claiming' going on. He's approaching God, in faith, for mercy in his sinful condition. And he received that mercy, because he approached God in faith for it.

13But the tax collector stood at a distance, unwilling even to lift up his eyes to heaven. Instead, he beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner!’ 14I tell you, this man, rather than the Pharisee, went home justified.

Notice no works of righteousness were necessary for him to be justified. He only brought his faith that God would have mercy on him, and he was justified. Meanwhile, the Pharisee who trusted in his righteousness and was 'not like other men' did NOT go home justified.

It is doing right (righteousness) to tell/admit the truth. That is doing/working righteousness. He did what God saw as right and so he went away justified, (which means God saw he did what was right by admitting the truth.)

 

[David1701]

Righteousness is universal. In every nation those who fear God and DO righteousness are accepted with Him. Religious people can't accept that.

So then you may begin to understand the nature of faith in Christ. The minimum standard of Christ is a basic righteousness. At LEAST giving your talent to the money changers. To at least walk at the level of a good Muslim, or Hindu. Less than that gets you sent into outer darkness where you may have to serve a Muslim or Hindu.

The standard of Christ is to walk in His power over sin and this world. The saints will rule over the righteous in the next age. The Bride of Christ lives with God in the holy city. And the kings of the earth (nations) brings in their glory (human) into it.




No. They will enter the nations.

Jesus is the Saviour of the whole world...especially those who believe. Faith in Christ gives us access to GLORY....not just salvation (salvation PLUS glory). OBEDIENCE to Christ brings salvation. Whoever obeys Christ, whether believer or not is saved. Jesus' blood covers all who obey Him.

The problem with the modern church is the false doctrine of religious beliefs INSTEAD of obedience. Making Jesus an idol that is meant only to venerate but not listen to.

Here is the biblical declaration that proves the sentence I've made bold and underlined, in your post, to be false.

Heb. 11:5,6 (KJV)
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Rom. 10:8-17
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[Episkopos]

Here is the biblical declaration that proves the sentence I've made bold and underlined, in your post, to be false.

Heb. 11:5,6 (KJV)
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Rom. 10:8-17
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Your lack of depth perception in your understanding doesn't make me false. It makes you a novice in biblical things.

The bible clearly demarcates the difference between PLEASING God and being ACCEPTED by Him.

I'll try to break it down for you.

In any given wedding there are the bride and groom AND many guests....or at least the guests are more numerous than the bridal couple.

Now the groom has chosen his bride from among many women...and some of those many women could attend the wedding.

The woman that is well-pleasing to the man, he is marrying. She is the bride....the chosen one. The list of guests need APPROVAL from the wedding party. Those need not be well-pleasing but just acceptable. Many are called few are chosen.

Peter said of a truth God is NOT a respecter of persons (based on beliefs and status) but in every nation those who fear God and DO righteousness are ACCEPTED by Him. As a Bride??? NO, as guests.

God allows those who are both bad and good to attend His feast as a guest. They are ACCEPTABLE as such. Not so the Bride....who is without spot or wrinkle. These must be pleasing to God.

Faith is for the saint. Doing what is right is for the righteous (and the saint). The righteous sin, the saints do not.

 

[David1701]

Your lack of depth perception in your understanding doesn't make me false. It makes you a novice in biblical things.

The bible clearly demarcates the difference between PLEASING God and being ACCEPTED by Him.

I'll try to break it down for you.

In any given wedding there are the bride and groom AND many guests....or at least the guests are more numerous than the bridal couple.

Now the groom has chosen his bride from among many women...and some of those many women could attend the wedding.

The woman that is well-pleasing to the man, he is marrying. She is the bride....the chosen one. The list of guests need APPROVAL from the wedding party. Those need not be well-pleasing but just acceptable. Many are called few are chosen.

Peter said of a truth God is NOT a respecter of persons (based on beliefs and status) but in every nation those who fear God and DO righteousness are ACCEPTED by Him. As a Bride??? NO, as guests.

God allows those who are both bad and good to attend His feast as a guest. They are ACCEPTABLE as such. No so the Bride....who is without spot or wrinkle. These must be pleasing to God.

Faith is for the saint. Doing what is right is for the righteous (and the saint). The righteous sin, the saints do not.

Cornelius was already a believer in God and the Messiah to come (an O.C. Gentile proselyte). He, like all O.C. believers, had to come into the N.C.; hence why Peter was sent to give him the gospel that the Messiah had now come and that he is the Lord Jesus Christ.

Everyone who believes in Jesus Christ is part of the "bride"; everyone else is lost and in need of salvation. It's important not to stretch the meaning of parables beyond what was intended. The Bible is very clear that salvation is only through faith in Jesus Christ, not by works, lest anyone should boast.

The saints are righteous in God's sight; but do still sin sometimes. There is no-one who is righteous in God's sight who is not also a saint.

Edit: Yikes! I accidentally posted "The saints are righteous in God's sin."! Now corrected to "...in God's sight.".

 

[Episkopos]

Cornelius was already a believer in God and the Messiah to come (an O.C. Gentile proselyte). He, like all O.C. believers, had to come into the N.C.; hence why Peter was sent to give him the gospel that the Messiah had now come and that he is the Lord Jesus Christ.

Everyone who believes in Jesus Christ is part of the "bride"; everyone else is lost and in need of salvation. It's important not to stretch the meaning of parables beyond what was intended. The Bible is very clear that salvation is only through faith in Jesus Christ, not by works, lest anyone should boast.

The saints are righteous in God's sin; but do still sin sometimes. There is no-one who is righteous in God's sight who is not also a saint.

Like I said...you are a novice.

 

[David1701]

Like I said...you are a novice.

I'm not a novice.

If you think that what I posted is wrong, then please show where the Bible disproves it, thanks.

 

[ProDeo]

I claim nothing for myself, but to serve Christ and others. Where God puts me is up to Him. My HOPE is that God will find a place for me. I ask the Lord to NOT send me to a place of dishonour...since many many will be sent there...especially in these rebellious times.

Rom 8:15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”

Rom 8:16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

 

[ProDeo]

A new convert to Christ is to learn righteousness...or else he will be rejected. ONLY the righteous inherit the kingdom. You need to start READING the bible. All of it.

The true sign of a conversion is a changed life, breaking with sin, bearing fruit of which righteousness is just one of the parts of the fruit.

Rom 12:1 I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.
Rom 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.
Rom 12:3 For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.

Stop treating your brothers and sisters as if they don't live the life of the above Scripture.

I never said I am presently walking in perfection. I said I HAD walked in the perfection of Christ. I have this testimony. And no pretender will receive my testimony because they have not been set apart for faith.

What is the point of your testimony if you can not go there again?

Using your own words --> I had to change.

Why not just continue?

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

The bible clearly demarcates the difference between PLEASING God and being ACCEPTED by Him.

So now you're saying that a person can be accepted by God, but not be pleasing to him. That's funny because that's the theology you've been calling out as false.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

It is doing right (righteousness) to tell/admit the truth. That is doing/working righteousness. He did what God saw as right and so he went away justified, (which means God saw he did what was right by admitting the truth.)

But this is the exact salvation by 'beliefs' that you claim is false.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

You reject what I say because you are religiously obstinate.

What value does this statement have since you connect no explanation to it?

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

You really don't understand that being saved FROM the world is not the same at all as being saved INTO the kingdom.

You are the one who lacks understanding:

Colossians 1:13-14
13He has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of His beloved Son, 14in whom we have redemption,d the forgiveness of sins.

As you can see being saved via "redemption, the forgiveness of sins" is in fact the equivalent of being saved from the world and into the kingdom of Jesus.

Since you reject redemption and forgiveness of sins through the blood of Christ, you are excluded from having been rescued from the dominion of darkness and into the kingdom of God. That privilege is only for those who have believed in and received the redemption that is by faith in Christ's blood.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

Repent, fear God, humble yourself. You may yet be hid on the day of God's wrath on His own people.

Believe in Christ's blood as the fulfillment of the law of sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin and you, too, will enter into the kingdom and out of the darkened kingdom of the prince of this world. Until you do that you will remain outside of the kingdom and in darkness. No work of righteousness will ever fix the void between you and God. Only the forgiveness of God made available to you through the sacrifice of Christ can bring you near to him.