Catholics

[ScottA]

How and when did Catholics follow Peter's flesh and why didn't anybody notice this MONUMENTOUS event until a revolt 15 centuries later??? We are told there were no Catholics at this time so which is it?

By adopting a system of governing Popes...whenever that was.

The first 40 popes were martyred by pagan Romans, did they depart from the commandments too?
Were the bishops who discerned the canon of scripture "following the flesh of Peter?

If they came to that fork in the road stated by Christ of whether to follow Peter or the spirit of God - then, Yes.

And if they then, went on to preach and to teach others to follow their own misunderstanding - Yes again, even worse.

 

[ScottA]

For you to make a claim that the Catholic Church went astray - you must have some sort of timeline - even an estimation.
If you don't have either - then you're simply making it up as you go along.

You can't have it both ways.
When you make an accusation in a debate - the onus is on YOU to provide the evidence.

No. If we see a tree growing after many years, we know that it sprouted up at some point. The tree is the evidence. Likewise, a system of belief that raises up a man to be head of the church, is evidence of it self.

 

[ScottA]

Catholics ALSO reject anything other than Christ being the Head of His Church - so what's your point??
The Pope is merely the Vicar or chief agent in charge of Christ's Church on earth.

That is not true...and you contradict yourself in the same paragraph:

The term "vicar" comes from the Latin word vicarius, which means "instead of."

 

[Marymog]

1 Corinthians 10:4
and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rockwas Christ.

I agree with scripture. The rock was Christ, not God.

 

[Marymog]

No...and I do not gravitate toward "denominations" - sounds like "body parts." :)

You are a church of one then?

 

[BreadOfLife]

That is not true...and you contradict yourself in the same paragraph:

The term "vicar" comes from the Latin word vicarius, which means "instead of."

And now you're being dishonest again.
I'm not "contradicting" anything.

The Catholic Church does not teach that the Pope's leadership usurps that of Jesus, who is the Head of the Church.
The Pope is the visible, earthly head. The Church extends to those no longer on this earth. the Pope is the EARTHLY head.

By the way - vicarious doesn't mean "instead of" - it means "THROUGH".

 

[ScottA]

You are a church of one then?

Well...not really. I would say that most of the denominational masses turn as much of a blind eye to their charter as they do to the word of God. The good news is, some do as what they are told/taught or what they receive in spirit, and not what the leaders do.

 

[BreadOfLife]

No. If we see a tree growing after many years, we know that it sprouted up at some point. The tree is the evidence. Likewise, a system of belief that raises up a man to be head of the church, is evidence of it self.

This is a foolish position.
To make the claim that the Church went "astray" - then to be completely unable to say how and when this happened is preposterous.

When you hurl a charge at somebody - you'd better make sure you know what you're talking about - or you expose yourself as a deceitful person.

 

[BreadOfLife]

1 Thessalonians 5
22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
Praying in front of statues = The appearance of evil.

Telling lies about Christ's Church on a discussion forum = the manifestation of evil . . .

Prov. 12:22
"Lying lips are an abomination to the LORD"

 

[BreadOfLife]

Well...not really. I would say that most of the denominational masses turn as much of a blind eye to their charter as they do to the world of God. The good news is, some do as what they are told/taught or what they receive in spirit, and not what the leaders do.

There is no such thing as "Lone Ranger" Christianity in the NT.
In 1 Cor. 12, Paul spells that out pretty specifically.

 

[BreadOfLife]

1 Corinthians 10:4
and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rockwas Christ.

Guess what?
The Bible also says that Abraham is the Rock:
Isaiah 51:1-2
Look to the ROCK from which you were cut
and to the quarry from which you were hewn;
look to ABRAHAM, your father,
and to Sarah, who gave you birth.

What YOU'RE dancing around is the fact that Matt. 16:18 is talking about Peter and Peter ONLY.
Jesus specifically gave Peter this title over ALL of the other Apostles - and that is what He is referring to in Matt. 16:18 - NOT Himself.

 

[Marymog]

Well...not really. I would say that most of the denominational masses turn as much of a blind eye to their charter as they do to the world of God. The good news is, some do as what they are told/taught or what they receive in spirit, and not what the leaders do.

If you don't follow the teachings/doctrines/beliefs of a specific church (denomination) then who's teachings do you follow?

If your answer is you follow the teachings of Christ then I would argue all the other people who belong to a denomination also BELIEVE they are following the teachings of Christ. You are alleging that MOST of the denominational masses don't follow the teachings of their church. Since you have no facts to back up that statement I ask you: What is wrong with following the teachings of a specific Church? Why is it ok for you to follow what you BELIEVE to be true (your church of one) but everyone else is wrong to follow what THEY BELIEVE to be True in their church of 1 billion?

You seem to be saying you follow the spirit and not leaders. How do you KNOW that they are not following the spirit when they choose to follow the specific teachings of a denomination?

Are YOU ScottA the only one who can PROPERLY hear the Spirit and interpret His word?

To ask it another way: How do you know YOU are right and THEY are wrong?

Curious Mary

 

[Job]

1 Thessalonians 5
22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

Praying to images = The appearance of evil.

 

[Job]

Are YOU ScottA the only one who can PROPERLY hear the Spirit and interpret His word?

No, there's others of us out there.

 

[aspen]

Apparently, you didn't study enough or you wouldn't be attending a Quaker church.
Your Authority is the Church (Matt. 16:18019, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23) and Scripture and Tradition.

Does the Catechism forbid attending a Quaker meeting?

 

[aspen]

Show me ANY document that the Church called itself "The Coptic Church" or "The Orthodox Church" - PRIOR to Ignatius of Antioch's Letter to the Smyrnaeans at the beginning of the 2nd century.

If you can do that - I'll leave the Catholic Church today.
If you can't - then consider yourself historically spanked . . .

You are actually serious, aren't you?

I am praying for you, brother.

 

[ScottA]

And now you're being dishonest again.
I'm not "contradicting" anything.

The Catholic Church does not teach that the Pope's leadership usurps that of Jesus, who is the Head of the Church.
The Pope is the visible, earthly head. The Church extends to those no longer on this earth. the Pope is the EARTHLY head.

By the way - vicarious doesn't mean "instead of" - it means "THROUGH".

No, I am being honest, nor is my English in error. It can be and is, defined as "substitute." But"vicar" is not my choice of words, but rather those of Catholic church. So, if you have an accusation of dishonesty regarding the word, you should take it up with them.

Even so, "head" especially, is the wrong word according to Christ.

 

[aspen]

Um...what lie have I said about the Roman Catholic Church?

 

[aspen]

Just for the record, BreadofLife does not speak for the Vatican, all Catholics or me; despite his assertions to the contrary.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You are actually serious, aren't you?
I am praying for you, brother.

Thanks - I can always use extra prayers.
As for me being serious - I'm always serious about truth.

Unless YOU can substantiate the claims you made about the Coptic and Orthodox churches - you're just telling lies.
Too many people around here playing fast and loose with the facts - and even more of them inventing their own "facts" . . .