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epostle1

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4. As the sacred synod searches into the mystery of the Church, it remembers the bond that spiritually ties the people of the New Covenant to Abraham's stock.

Thus the Church of Christ acknowledges that, according to God's saving design, the beginnings of her faith and her election are found already among the Patriarchs, Moses and the prophets. She professes that all who believe in Christ-Abraham's sons according to faith (6)-are included in the same Patriarch's call, and likewise that the salvation of the Church is mysteriously foreshadowed by the chosen people's exodus from the land of bondage.

The Church, therefore, cannot forget that she received the revelation of the Old Testament through the people with whom God in His inexpressible mercy concluded the Ancient Covenant. Nor can she forget that she draws sustenance from the root of that well-cultivated olive tree onto which have been grafted the wild shoots, the Gentiles.(7) Indeed, the Church believes that by His cross Christ, Our Peace, reconciled Jews and Gentiles. making both one in Himself.(8)

The Church keeps ever in mind the words of the Apostle about his kinsmen: "theirs is the sonship and the glory and the covenants and the law and the worship and the promises; theirs are the fathers and from them is the Christ according to the flesh" (Rom. 9:4-5), the Son of the Virgin Mary. She also recalls that the Apostles, the Church's main-stay and pillars, as well as most of the early disciples who proclaimed Christ's Gospel to the world, sprang from the Jewish people.

As Holy Scripture testifies, Jerusalem did not recognize the time of her visitation,(9) nor did the Jews in large number, accept the Gospel; indeed not a few opposed its spreading.(10) Nevertheless, God holds the Jews most dear for the sake of their Fathers; He does not repent of the gifts He makes or of the calls He issues-such is the witness of the Apostle.(11) In company with the Prophets and the same Apostle, the Church awaits that day, known to God alone, on which all peoples will address the Lord in a single voice and "serve him shoulder to shoulder" (Soph. 3:9).(12)

Since the spiritual patrimony common to Christians and Jews is thus so great, this sacred synod wants to foster and recommend that mutual understanding and respect which is the fruit, above all, of biblical and theological studies as well as of fraternal dialogues.

True, the Jewish authorities and those who followed their lead pressed for the death of Christ;(13) still, what happened in His passion cannot be charged against all the Jews, without distinction, then alive, nor against the Jews of today. Although the Church is the new people of God, the Jews should not be presented as rejected or accursed by God, as if this followed from the Holy Scriptures. All should see to it, then, that in catechetical work or in the preaching of the word of God they do not teach anything that does not conform to the truth of the Gospel and the spirit of Christ.

Furthermore, in her rejection of every persecution against any man, the Church, mindful of the patrimony she shares with the Jews and moved not by political reasons but by the Gospel's spiritual love, decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone.

Besides, as the Church has always held and holds now, Christ underwent His passion and death freely, because of the sins of men and out of infinite love, in order that all may reach salvation. It is, therefore, the burden of the Church's preaching to proclaim the cross of Christ as the sign of God's all-embracing love and as the fountain from which every grace flows.
Nostra aetate
footnotes:
6. Cf. Gal. 3:7
7. Cf. Rom. 11:17-24
8. Cf. Eph. 2:14-16
9. Cf. Lk. 19:44
10. Cf. Rom. 11:28
11. Cf. Rom. 11:28-29; cf. dogmatic Constitution, Lumen Gentium (Light of nations) AAS, 57 (1965) pag. 20
12. Cf. Is. 66:23; Ps. 65:4; Rom. 11:11-32

That's what the Vatican actually claims.
 

mjrhealth

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decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone.
And yet during the Holocaust they stood on germanys side and said nothing, during teh crusades they not only persecuted but slaughtered the Jews. Of which Josepheus was a witness to.
 
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tabletalk

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Hello there. I actually didn't get a notification of this message so sorry. I saw the heading and decided to have a look....
Yes, I am aware that I am worshiping a REAL Jesus, but you got me wrong, I could NEVER be infallible, but I accept that He IS, so when He does tell me something, I accept it fully as truth, and many many Christians over the past 3 decades have all been excited to show me, where in the Bible I could find what Jesus was talking about, even if by then it didn't matter that much to me. Can you tell me anything I have posted which does not agree with the Christian Bible ?
How does faith enter into my walk ? You are kidding , right ? I don't SEE Jesus each and every time I wish to, He reveals Himself as He wishes, I have seen Him on a few occasions, but have had 8 lengthy encounters with Him over a 3 decade period, and I have heard His voice more......But, because He said to me the first time we met :" Remember, I am always here whether you can see Me or not." and I have taken His word for that all this time, so that I can be AWARE of Him at all time, if I was to so wish and or do.....This is where faith comes in a lot.....I mess up all the time and realize I have to quickly run back to Him, but have had many times where I have felt embarrassed or like I have let Him down, and even if I pout for a while, He is STILL always there, when I choose to face Him again.....So, I can also attest to His faithfulness !
I will not tell anyone anything as Truth, unless I have heard it from Him, or seen Him tell me with my own eyes, or if received via The Holy Spirit, I wait for confirmation.
Does that answer your questions? :) Also last of all, Jesus said :" Blessed are they who have believed and NEVER seen." So I don't know why He allowed me to experience Him that way, I expect it was the only way for Him to convince me, and that is not the best place to start from, but I'll take it. I will take what He wants to give anytime, anywhere...


Thanks for your reply.
It may seem as if our discussion is not pertinent to the subject of this thread, but the Catholic Church worships a God they can see and you seem to be worshipping a God you can see also. (8 times you say).

Romans 8:18-25 talks about hope being directed at something we cannot see, in contrast to seeing the object of our hope:

18.* For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19. For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21. because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22. For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23. Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24. For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25. But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.*

I sure might be assuming too much from these verses, but I think it is not *saving faith* if one believes, or has faith, in a God they can see. Why hope for what you can already see?
 
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pia

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Thanks for your reply.
It may seem as if our discussion is not pertinent to the subject of this thread, but the Catholic Church worships a God they can see and you seem to be worshipping a God you can see also. (8 times you say).

Romans 8:18-25 talks about hope being directed at something we cannot see, in contrast to seeing the object of our hope:

18.* For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19. For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21. because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22. For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23. Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24. For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25. But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.*

I sure might be assuming too much from these verses, but I think it is not *saving faith* if one believes, or has faith, in a God they can see. Why hope for what you can already see?
What I see now is only a tiny fraction of what is there, and my hope ( my full expectation ) is for when the day comes when I will be joined forever as one with Him and all the other believers, and when I can finally get to see my Father and thank Him for all He has done. I need to practice my faith each and every day... I'm a full believer in what sports people say, use it or lose it ! :)
 
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Stranger

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That's 3 in a row.

Much easier to dismiss a question than to answer it. You're on a roll with three. So, is there any substance to what you have to say? Or is it just talk? If you don't know how to answer it is better to be quiet.

Stranger
 

BreadOfLife

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And yet during the Holocaust they stood on germanys side and said nothing, during teh crusades they not only persecuted but slaughtered the Jews. Of which Josepheus was a witness to.
ANY time you want to get into a discussion about the Crusades or the Holocaust - I would be MORE than happy to embarrass you.
The plain fact is the not not did the Church decry Nazism - Pope Pius XII rescued more Jews that Oskar Schindler - but you'll never see an Academy Award-winning movie about it.

Finally - my ridiculously-ignorant friend - Josephus was a FIRST century historian.
The 1st Crusade didn't even take place until the ELEVENTH Century

Look - if you're going to continue to LIE about the Catholic Church - at LEAST get your dates right . . .
 

mjrhealth

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ANY time you want to get into a discussion about the Crusades or the Holocaust - I would be MORE than happy to embarrass you.
The plain fact is the not not did the Church decry Nazism - Pope Pius XII rescued more Jews that Oskar Schindler - but you'll never see an Academy Award-winning movie about it.

Finally - my ridiculously-ignorant friend - Josephus was a FIRST century historian.
The 1st Crusade didn't even take place until the ELEVENTH Century

Look - if you're going to continue to LIE about the Catholic Church - at LEAST get your dates right .
\

One doesnt have to LIE about your church its in teh nes every month where her sins are exposed to teh world,
Well at least you admitted they took place, still your ignorance of your churches history is quiet amazing, as I said it is impossible for your church to Be His church, because of its sins, Yes you can defend you religion to death, because it is all it has for you is death, as do al mens religions.
 
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BreadOfLife

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\

One doesnt have to LIE about your church its in teh nes every month where her sins are exposed to teh world,
Well at least you admitted they took place, still your ignorance of your churches history is quiet amazing, as I said it is impossible for your church to Be His church, because of its sins, Yes you can defend you religion to death, because it is all it has for you is death, as do al mens religions.
You accuse ME of being "ignorant" of Church history - yet it is YOU who made the asinine claim that Josephus was a "witness" to Church atrocities during the Crusades which took place 1000 years AFTER Josephus was dead and buried.
Like I said before - if you're going to continue to lie about the Church - at least get your dates right.

Can YOU say, "Hypocrite"?

PS -
What does "in teh nes every month" mean??
 

mjrhealth

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Can YOU say, "Hypocrite"?

PS -
What does "in teh nes every month" mean??
Well ate least you know how to spell it, since you use it so often. As I have said, you cant burn people at the stake anymore being banned for centuries.

Nice to see you still trying to tear down people when you dont have a response, i have put up with it for years, like water off a ducks back.
 
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BreadOfLife

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Well ate least you know how to spell it, since you use it so often. As I have said, you cant burn people at the stake anymore being banned for centuries.

Nice to see you still trying to tear down people when you dont have a response, i have put up with it for years, like water off a ducks back.
Put up with what - your complete inability to tell the truth??

Can you tell us WHY you claimed that Josephus was a "witness" to Catholics killing Jews during the Crusades - a full thousand years AFTER his death????
Can you tell us WHY you would make up such a ridiculous lie?
 

mjrhealth

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Put up with what - your complete inability to tell the truth??

Can you tell us WHY you claimed that Josephus was a "witness" to Catholics killing Jews during the Crusades - a full thousand years AFTER his death????
Can you tell us WHY you would make up such a ridiculous lie?
What one mistake, your whole religion is a lie, yet you come here and promote it every day, and to do so, you have to consistently lie, which is why you have to yell and scream at every one, this bit

Joh_10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

That is why those in Christ dont belong to religions, they belong to Jesus.
 

epostle1

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Much easier to dismiss a question than to answer it. You're on a roll with three. So, is there any substance to what you have to say? Or is it just talk? If you don't know how to answer it is better to be quiet.
Stranger
I do not need to justify which stupid questions I dismiss. I notice you are silent so why don't you answer it and stop annoying me.
"So God will answer the prayers of the Fred Phelps Baptist who pray to God that He kills all the gay people?"
 

BreadOfLife

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What one mistake, your whole religion is a lie, yet you come here and promote it every day, and to do so, you have to consistently lie, which is why you have to yell and scream at every one, this bit

Joh_10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

That is why those in Christ dont belong to religions, they belong to Jesus.
Sooooo, you ADMIT you lied about Josephus and the Crusades - is that what you're saying?

Also - I challenge you to provide me with ONE post - just ONE, where I "lied". I'm not talking about a Catholic doctrine that you disagree with. c I'm talking about a flat-out, filthy LIE, like the one YOU told about Josephus and the Catholic Church.

I will leave the forum today and never bother you again if you can find one . . .
 
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mjrhealth

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you ADMIT you lied about Josephus and the Crusades - is that what you're saying?
mistake, is not a lie, a lie it was you do consistently knowing you are wrong, waich is what you do consistently, Still trying to tear us down, wont happen God is on the side of His People.

Also - I challenge you to provide me with ONE post - just ONE, where I "lied".
I will leave the forum today and never bother you again if you can find one . . .

That you church is His church,even with all its sign that reach to heaven and teh murder of all the saints whose blood cries out for vengance that Peter was the first pope, that Jesus gave Peter authority over all even though He said it must never be.

Are you still here.??

Besides you wont leave, you have a false religion to promote on a Christian forum. You have taught me more than you know about deception and idols of men.
 
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pia

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Well ate least you know how to spell it, since you use it so often. As I have said, you cant burn people at the stake anymore being banned for centuries.

Nice to see you still trying to tear down people when you dont have a response, i have put up with it for years, like water off a ducks back.
Hi there.....
You certainly have put up with all that nonsense for the longest time. I see that a few others have tried to reach this 'would be' usurper of Christ in peoples lives, just like all the organized religions, that's all they try to do too.
Let's face it.....WHAT WOULD THE CHURCHES DO , if suddenly men started running to Jesus instead of church, they would find themselves irrelevant, dried up branches good for nothing but the fire.
Good on you for caring enough to keep trying.......:)
 
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Stranger

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I do not need to justify which stupid questions I dismiss. I notice you are silent so why don't you answer it and stop annoying me.
"So God will answer the prayers of the Fred Phelps Baptist who pray to God that He kills all the gay people?"

Actually I was in the process of speaking to another about it when you entered in with your comment of my question being stupid.

Stranger
 
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BreadOfLife

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mistake, is not a lie, a lie it was you do consistently knowing you are wrong, waich is what you do consistently, Still trying to tear us down, wont happen God is on the side of His People.

Either it was a flat-out lie - or you're just ignorant of history.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and go with the latter . . .
That you church is His church,even with all its sign that reach to heaven and teh murder of all the saints whose blood cries out for vengance that Peter was the first pope, that Jesus gave Peter authority over all even though He said it must never be.

Are you still here.??

Besides you wont leave, you have a false religion to promote on a Christian forum. You have taught me more than you know about deception and idols of men.
And AGAIN, you don't read very well, do you??

I told you I would leave this forum if you could present one LIE that I've told.
I even qualified it by saying that I wasn't talking about a Catholic teaching that you simply disagree with.

Now, I've caught you and your cronies in MANY lies - the latest of which pertained to your whopper about
Josephus being present at the Crusades 1000 years after his death. Show me ONE that I've told . . .