The Necessity of the Crucifixion

[VictoryinJesus]

God amazes me anew everyday. The son never wasted a single word as He suffered amongst men; understandably. neither does the word. I have always found John 21:7 to be an odd verse "Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fisher's coat unto him , (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea."

LORD, why make a point of telling us Simon Peter girt his fisher's coat unto him (for he was naked) and cast himself into the sea???

Only recently haven I given thought to the truth that the disciples were not converted until after the cross. Even though they spoke and walked and followed after Jesus daily, their well intentions and goodness was not enough.

Luke 22:31-32 KJV

[31] And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:

[32] But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.


The Necessity of the Crucifixion:

Mark 14:46-52 KJV

[46] And they laid their hands on him, and took him.

47] And one of them that stood by drew a sword, and smote a servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear.

48] And Jesus answered and said unto them, Are ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and with staves to take me?

[49] I was daily with you in the temple teaching, and ye took me not: but the scriptures must be fulfilled.

[50] And they all forsook him, and fled.

51] And there followed him a certain young man, having a linen cloth cast about his naked body ; and the young men laid hold on him:
52] And he left the linen cloth, and fled from them naked.


Without the Crucifixion, we would all be as the young man... naked.


Hebrews 4:12-16 KJV

[12] For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

13] Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

14] Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

15] For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

16] Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

 

[pia]

Only recently haven I given thought to the truth that the disciples were not converted until after the cross.

Hello....that's wonderful... Yes the day of Pentecost was a huge fulfillment also. Great to see you got understanding on that too :)

 

[DPMartin]

God amazes me anew everyday. The son never wasted a single word as He suffered amongst men; understandably. neither does the word. I have always found John 21:7 to be an odd verse "Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fisher's coat unto him , (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea."

LORD, why make a point of telling us Simon Peter girt his fisher's coat unto him (for he was naked) and cast himself into the sea???

Only recently haven I given thought to the truth that the disciples were not converted until after the cross. Even though they spoke and walked and followed after Jesus daily, their well intentions and goodness was not enough.

if you notice in the same book John makes sure you also know who won the race when him and Peter ran to the Lord's grave site after they were informed.

John also mentions in the same chapters when Jesus visted them at the sea that when Jesus said :

Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

that John clarifies what Jesus said and what it meant.


FYI
there is a considerable effort to discredit the Gospel according to John in that John wasn't the writer thereof. and John put proofs if you will, that the document is by his hand. that then the Apostles would be the only ones to know if it was John or not and could verify authenticity, especially Peter. these guys knew each other before Jesus came into their lives they were partners in fishing enterprises and many of the Apostle were brothers by flesh John and James, Peter and Andrew, Philip and Nathanial also if my memory serves. there were many bogus documents in those days and bogus preachers, just as today. there are many bogus translations and paraphrased bibles and many bogus theologies and preachers.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

if you notice in the same book John makes sure you also know who won the race when him and Peter ran to the Lord's grave site after they were informed.

John also mentions in the same chapters when Jesus visted them at the sea that when Jesus said :

Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

that John clarifies what Jesus said and what it meant.


FYI
there is a considerable effort to discredit the Gospel according to John in that John wasn't the writer thereof. and John put proofs if you will, that the document is by his hand. that then the Apostles would be the only ones to know if it was John or not and could verify authenticity, especially Peter. these guys knew each other before Jesus came into their lives they were partners in fishing enterprises and many of the Apostle were brothers by flesh John and James, Peter and Andrew, Philip and Nathanial also if my memory serves. there were many bogus documents in those days and bogus preachers, just as today. there are many bogus translations and paraphrased bibles and many bogus theologies and preachers.

To be honest, I am not sure I understand. Maybe it is over my head. I am not familiar with anyone trying to discredit John as the writer. I stay away from that sort of stuff. For me, John is the writer, given inspiration by the Holy Spirit.

 

[DPMartin]

To be honest, I am not sure I understand. Maybe it is over my head. I am not familiar with anyone trying to discredit John as the writer. I stay away from that sort of stuff. For me, John is the writer, given inspiration by the Holy Spirit.

if you read the book you see where what John writes the apostles could verify if the writing is from John or not. he refers to himself as the one the Lord loved, and there is other things he wrote in there that would let the apostles verify the book is from John and that is the reasoning be hide mentioning things like peter being naked or not.

I could be mistaken but John wrote the only gospel that is written by some one that was actually there through out the whole ministry of Jesus Christ from baptism to the Cross to the resurrection to ascending to the Father.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

if you read the book you see where what John writes the apostles could verify if the writing is from John or not. he refers to himself as the one the Lord loved, and there is other things he wrote in there that would let the apostles verify the book is from John and that is the reasoning be hide mentioning things like peter being naked or not.

I could be mistaken but John wrote the only gospel that is written by some one that was actually there through out the whole ministry of Jesus Christ from baptism to the Cross to the resurrection to ascending to the Father.

I understand now. Thank you for sharing and bringing to light something I know nothing about. I wasn't aware of the verification given within the text to prove John as the writer to the other Apostles.

 

[bbyrd009]

John makes sure you also know who won the race when him and Peter ran to the Lord's grave site after they were informed.

ha nice

 

[bbyrd009]

he refers to himself as the one the Lord loved

where, again? i missed the ref where he refers to himself as that one, ty

or ok, since he did not specifically refer to himself, how is this connection made? I get "we aren't sure who wrote the Gospel of John," and "we aren't sure who is the one whom Jesus loved," but i'm not quite getting what passage is used to justify that that one is John? ty

 

[bbyrd009]

"While the Gospel of John does not specifically identify its author, and 'the disciple whom Jesus loved' is nowhere explicitly named in Scripture, the early Christians universally recognize John as the author of the Gospel and 'the disciple whom Jesus loved.'"

"It is interesting that John referred to himself as 'the disciple whom Jesus loved.'"
(no reference though, all i can find is allusions to it?)
Disciple Whom Jesus Loved

 

[Helen]

Little did John know , that when he wrote about Peter at the last moment outrunning him into the tomb, he was "stamping in name" on the book of John . I love that! :)
I also like when he tells us the he was asking Jesus about Peter's death..and Jesus says- " mind you own business, and follow ME! "
Both these entries show the humility of John himself.
@VictoryinJesus
Thank you for the OP , very good :)

 

[pia]

and Jesus says- " mind you own business, and follow ME! "

Hi, yeah I too found that great, because mostly what I see, in an awful lot of Christians, is that they are almost always trying to get into things, which are NOT their business, and worse still, the gossip I have come across over the years within fellowships. Far too many things seem to be considered NOT important, and well, far too much gets made out of other things. Of course we are all still learning, but there are a few things which are 'no brainers' in my view..
I am glad wrote that Jesus said to FOLLOW HIM, because many seem to completely ignore that...
Bless you :)

 

[bbyrd009]

"While the Gospel of John does not specifically identify its author, and 'the disciple whom Jesus loved' is nowhere explicitly named in Scripture, the early Christians universally recognize John as the author of the Gospel and 'the disciple whom Jesus loved.'"

"It is interesting that John referred to himself as 'the disciple whom Jesus loved.'"
(no reference though, all i can find is allusions to it?)
Disciple Whom Jesus Loved

so no one can provide a ref for this? Because i don't believe it is in There, tbh. "The disciple whom Jesus loved" is being misunderstood here imo

 

[VictoryinJesus]

so no one can provide a ref for this? Because i don't believe it is in There, tbh. "The disciple whom Jesus loved" is being misunderstood here imo

John 13:23-25 KJV
[23] Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved. [24] Simon Peter therefore beckoned to him, that he should ask who it should be of whom he spake. [25] He then lying on Jesus' breast saith unto him, Lord, who is it?

John 21:20-22 KJV
[20] Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee? [21] Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do ? [22] Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

As the writer, if John is referring to himself, then that is him acknowledging that he is that disciple, whom Jesus loved? I couldn't find where John says He IS that disciple, maybe someone else will post it.

 

[101G]

The Necessity of the Crucifixion

No cross no crown, Revelation 1:6 "And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Without the Crucifixion, we would all be as the young man... naked.

Good, yea he clothed us with his righteousness.

PS. there was one Necessity of the Crucifixion that did puzzle me for years, long ago, but the Lord Jesus revealed it unto me. the "forsaking statement". Matthew 27:46 "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?". if it wasn't for the Crucifixion we wouldn't have the Holy Ghost IN US today. This answer, of God, the Father forsaking the Son, is bared out in Isaiah chapter 59, the word forsaking, (forsook), means separation, not to desert, but to LEAVE BEHIND. by the cross of DEATH, the Spirit separated or came out from the flesh, or Left the flesh behind so it can go first to the spirits in prision and preach redemption to them, and later be poured out on all flesh, (Joel 2:28 & 29). because the sins of the whole world will be laid on him. God cannot dwell in an unclean place, hence another reason for the separation. and by the shedding of blood we're CLEAN, and ready for his Spirit to indwell us. the scripture is clear, God will never forsake you, read Hebrews 13:15. and he didn’t here (on the cross) nor today. He just prepared himself for glorification, for himself, and for US, glory to God, what a mighty God we serve. REDEMPTION started on the cross with our Lord Jesus the Christ forsaking his own flesh as we must do. Then this great glorious work of redemption, poured over with Peter and then the disciples, being filled with the Spirit, and the actions of the Holy Spirit is confirmed in the book of Acts chapter 2 onward until to today. see, the cross touches us toady by the out pouring out of the Spirit on us. again, if no cross, no crown. for edification, the whole chapter of Isaiah 59 is worth your reading.

 

[bbyrd009]

John 13:23-25 KJV
[23] Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved. [24] Simon Peter therefore beckoned to him, that he should ask who it should be of whom he spake. [25] He then lying on Jesus' breast saith unto him, Lord, who is it?

John 21:20-22 KJV
[20] Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee? [21] Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do ? [22] Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

As the writer, if John is referring to himself, then that is him acknowledging that he is that disciple, whom Jesus loved? I couldn't find where John says He IS that disciple, maybe someone else will post it.

i doubt it, because it does not exist! Ty tho :)

 

[VictoryinJesus]

No cross no crown, Revelation 1:6 "And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Good, yea he clothed us with his righteousness.

PS. there was one Necessity of the Crucifixion that did puzzle me for years, long ago, but the Lord Jesus revealed it unto me. the "forsaking statement". Matthew 27:46 "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?". if it wasn't for the Crucifixion we wouldn't have the Holy Ghost IN US today. This answer, of God, the Father forsaking the Son, is bared out in Isaiah chapter 59, the word forsaking, (forsook), means separation, not to desert, but to LEAVE BEHIND. by the cross of DEATH, the Spirit separated or came out from the flesh, or Left the flesh behind so it can go first to the spirits in prision and preach redemption to them, and later be poured out on all flesh, (Joel 2:28 & 29). because the sins of the whole world will be laid on him. God cannot dwell in an unclean place, hence another reason for the separation. and by the shedding of blood we're CLEAN, and ready for his Spirit to indwell us. the scripture is clear, God will never forsake you, read Hebrews 13:15. and he didn’t here (on the cross) nor today. He just prepared himself for glorification, for himself, and for US, glory to God, what a mighty God we serve. REDEMPTION started on the cross with our Lord Jesus the Christ forsaking his own flesh as we must do. Then this great glorious work of redemption, poured over with Peter and then the disciples, being filled with the Spirit, and the actions of the Holy Spirit is confirmed in the book of Acts chapter 2 onward until to today. see, the cross touches us toady by the out pouring out of the Spirit on us. again, if no cross, no crown. for edification, the whole chapter of Isaiah 59 is worth your reading.

Praise the Lord for revealing this(about forsaking) to you therefore providing nourishment for the whole body! Your post greatly blessed me. I went immediately to the scripture you referenced. 101G, Thank you for sharing what He shared with you! I don't think we praise Him enough for what He provides through others within the body. There are biologist, painters, carpenters, those that study color spectrum and light, archeologists, those that study space and time, history and prophecy... so much more. We are all different. If we could only learn to praise what others learn of him in areas we have not yet been shown!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Sacrifices seasoned with salt:


Leviticus 2:13 KJV

[13] And every oblation of thy meat offering shalt thou season with salt; neither shalt thou suffer the salt of the covenant of thy God to be lacking from thy meat offering: with all thine offerings thou shalt offer salt.


The LORD smelled a sweet savour: what was this sweet savour? The coming sacrifice of the Son. Jesus Christ.


Genesis 8:21-22 KJV

[21] And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done. [22] While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.


God no longer wanted their sacrifices. In light of the only sacrifice that will satisfy the warth of God against sinners. A once and for all, "it is finished."


Hosea 6:5-6 KJV

[5] Therefore have I hewed them by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of my mouth: and thy judgments are as the light that goeth forth. [6] For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.


Hebrews 10:1-9 KJV

[1] For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. [2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. [3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. [4] For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. [5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: [6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. [7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. [8] Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein ; which are offered by the law; [9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.



2 Kings 2:19-21 KJV

[19] And the men of the city said unto Elisha, Behold, I pray thee, the situation of this city is pleasant, as my lord seeth: but the water is naught, and the ground barren. [20] And he said, Bring me a new cruse, and put salt therein. And they brought it to him. [21] And he went forth unto the spring of the waters, and cast the salt in there, and said, Thus saith the Lord , I have healed these waters; there shall not be from thence any more death or barren land .


Mans sacrifices are UNSAVOURY.
They have lost their taste.

Job 6:6 KJV

[6] Can that which is unsavoury be eaten without salt? or is there any taste in the white of an egg?

Can we go before the Father without Christ?

But if salt has lost it savour, thereby the scarifies of man having lost its sweet savour; man is left: neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill.


Luke 14:34-35 KJV

[34] Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned? [35] It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.


Salt is good: but if salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned?


The answer: the only sacrifice acceptable to God. The Son. The Son is the sweet savour that makes us acceptable unto God the Father. The only savour we have is IN CHRIST.


Matthew 5:12-14 KJV

[12] Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. [13] Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. [14] Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.


We are the light of the world. Salt seasoned with Christ (the savour).


Colossians 4:6 KJV

[6] Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt(IN Christ), that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

A Necessity of the Crucifixion.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

We are bone of His bone.

Ephesians 5:29-30 KJV
[29] For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: [30] For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.


Psalm 34:19-20 KJV
[19] Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the Lord delivereth him out of them all. [20] He keepeth all his bones: not one of them is broken.


Ezekiel 37:7 KJV
[7] So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.


Proverbs 12:4 KJV
[4] A virtuous woman is a crown to her husband: but she that maketh ashamed is as rottenness in his bones.

Matthew 23:27 KJV
[27] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.


John 19:35-36 KJV
[35] And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe. [36] For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.

Proverbs 3:7-9 KJV
[7] Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the Lord , and depart from evil. [8] It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones. [9] Honour the Lord with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:

 

[bbyrd009]

John 13:23-25 KJV
[23] Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved. [24] Simon Peter therefore beckoned to him, that he should ask who it should be of whom he spake. [25] He then lying on Jesus' breast saith unto him, Lord, who is it?

John 21:20-22 KJV
[20] Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee? [21] Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do ? [22] Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

As the writer, if John is referring to himself, then that is him acknowledging that he is that disciple, whom Jesus loved? I couldn't find where John says He IS that disciple, maybe someone else will post it.

iow it is at least possible that a literary device is being used to refer to...me

 

[aspen]

Yeah, John was the beloved disciple, according to himself - hah

Probably how we should all see ourselves, actually