Jesus is a human being but not the one true God

[mjrhealth]

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work (2 Tim 3:16-17 NIV, emphasis added).

it also says

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

and yet so many would rather "boast" of how much they taught themselves than boast of How much He taught them. That bit about "knowledge puffeth up" and

2Co 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

we have teh choice to be full of ourselves, our wisdom, our understanding or we can be emptied of ourselves and be filled with His wisdom His teaching His truth. But so many prefer teh former to the latter.

 

[mjrhealth]

I don't really need to make it seem like its rocket science like some people do. He is of the seed of the woman, which makes him the son of man, the same seed that God promised would bruise the heel and head of the serpent from the beginning in Genesis 3. He was also born of the holy spirit which makes him the Son of God, the only begotten son.

nicely put .

 

[Helen]

Son of man ( via Mary, Ruth, David etc) Son of God, from before all things.
God Himself, as in Isa 9:6
Luke 1:32 "He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David" All apply.
I don't know why some say 'which is it'...it is not "either/ or " ...it is ALL. And all at the same time!!

 

[mjrhealth]

The word "seed" is and odd word, in woman it is her offspring in man it is His sperm, so it needs to be read in teh correct context, in that Christ was born of a woman and as such is her offspring, the "seed" came from God in the form of teh Holy Spirit.

 

[OzSpen]

I don't really need to make it seem like its rocket science like some people do. He is of the seed of the woman, which makes him the son of man, the same seed that God promised would bruise the heel and head of the serpent from the beginning in Genesis 3. He was also born of the holy spirit which makes him the Son of God, the only begotten son.

There's slightly more to the understanding of Jesus as the Son of Man than that he was a human being: See: What does it mean that Jesus is the Son of Man?

See also: If Jesus was the Son of God, why did He call Himself the Son of Man?

And another:Why Did Jesus Call Himself the Son of Man?

Oz

 

[GodsGrace]

No, I pointed out that the first time we hear Him referred to by God as His Son, was when He was Baptized. He had to be an ADULT without sin, in order to become The Son of God. The way God sees it, babies and young children have no sin, as they do not yet comprehend what it is...Jesus was most certainly born of God, through Gods seed, His Word, which became flesh, as is stated....He was not however deemed to be The Son until showing Himself able to live without sin, which He had obviously done up to the time He was Baptized, when He then received the Holy spirit of God to dwell within Him, the first human being ever to do that, and thereby the last Adam...Even Adam and Eve did not have that, and thank God for that, as there would have been no remedy for mankind, if it had been so...
I hope I was able to explain myself a little better here ? Sorry English is not my first language, and even though I have been here a long time, I still find that I go amiss here and there and can't quite express what I mean..

I DID understand you correctly.

You say Jesus had to be an adult without sin in order to BECOME the Son of God.
I hope you realize that what you believe is not traditional Christianity.

You say Jesus is the only human that was able never to sin.
That's because he was NOT a normal human --- He was GOD!

Romans tells us that there is NONE righteous, NO NOT ONE.
Romans 3:10

ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
Romans 3:23

IF Jesus had been born a human, to BECOME God,then this would make these two scriptures to be untrue. There is NOTHING in scripture that is untrue.

Also, what would be your understanding of
Luke 1:35
It states that the HOLY SPIRIT would come upon Mary. GOD is the father of Jesus, not Joseph. The reason that the power of the Most High would overshadow Mary, is because Jesus was to be the holy offspring and called the Son of God.

I'd also like to add two other thoughts.

To be called a Christian you must believe the Apostles Creed. It states that we believe in Jesus, the only BEGOTTEN Son of God. Do you know what "begtton" means? It DOES NOT mean that God made Jesus. It means that Jesus is UNIQUE. He was with God from the beginning because He IS God.

Also, anything you feel Jesus has told you, MUST comply with scripture.

EVERYONE is born with sin. ONLY Jesus was born without sin.

Children cannot commit SINS because God is meciful and He would not impute their own sins to them since they do not know what sin is.

However,they are born WITH SIN.
Do you believe there's a difference between
SIN
and SINS??

What is the difference?
Therein lies the key to your dilemma.
And it IS a dilemma.

 

[GodsGrace]

So Jesus speaks and you deem it un biblical.....priceless !

Pia,
We cannot believe what Jesus told YOU.
We must believe what is written about Him in the gospels.
We must believe what He Himself has said.

I grew up Catholic.
Do you know that some saints claim to have SEEN Jesus in person?
St. Teresa for instance.

Jesus spoke to her about purgatory.
Does this mean purgatory exists an we protestants have it all wrong?
OR, should we believe what scripture states?

YOU can believe what Jesus told you.
He told me things that work for ME, but may not work for everyone.
We are not allowed to preach what Jesus told us personally.
We can only state with certainty what is written in our bible.

Christiaitycannot be a personal belief. It would fall apart in a very short time.
It must be a cohesive idea and one which is believed by everyone.
Doctrine cannot be changed or Christianity will fall.

 

[GodsGrace]

it also says

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

and yet so many would rather "boast" of how much they taught themselves than boast of How much He taught them. That bit about "knowledge puffeth up" and

2Co 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

we have teh choice to be full of ourselves, our wisdom, our understanding or we can be emptied of ourselves and be filled with His wisdom His teaching His truth. But so many prefer teh former to the latter.

Knowledge is not a bad thing as you make it out to be.

Just because we have knowledge does not mean we are puffed up.
Does not scripture teach us to be ready to give a reason for our believing?
1 Peter 3:15

 

[101G]

It seems this way, Jesus born of Mary was born as the "son of man", than when He reached the age God needed Him to be He was than baptized in teh Holy Ghost and became, the son of God".

GINOLJC, to all. mjrhealth, how can he be born "son of man", or rather, "GIVEN", especially when the bible plainly states the "Son of God", was born. scripture, Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God". what was born was flesh. and the diversified "spirit" (the son of man), was given. scripture, Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace". there are two transaction in this verse. meaning that there are two states involved. the inner man (spirit) son of man, and the outward man (flesh) son of God. the outward man (flesh) son of God is born as Matthews and Isaiah states. and the son of man (spirit) is Given. scripture, Matthew 18:11 "For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost". son of man is not born, but given. and it is the son of man that saves right..... scripture, Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you". read that verse again and see who "came" and save us. keep in mind, Matthew 18:11 "For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost".

be blessed.

 

[amadeus]

That avoids the issue of interpretation. The Mormons, JWs, Muslims and Buddhists believe in the 'Jesus who is' but their interpretations are not those like yours or mine.

I will grant you that their official positions are not ones I would follow, but I must take individuals one at the time and a doctrine at the time. Many people do not simply parrot the official position if they even know it. Generally Jesus was against the places where the Pharisee and scribes and heathen stood, but on an individual basis he was not so arbitrarily opposed, was he? I do try to be the same although being incomplete myself in the things of God I also at times fall short.

 

[amadeus]

Your response here is to my writing this:

Ps 58:6, in speaking of the wicked who are estranged from the womb, 'O God, break the teeth in their mouths' (ESV). Teeth from birth! That's a new one on me. Therefore, taking things literally when poetic language is used is dangerous interpretation.​

I was writing about interpretation of poetry vs literal interpretation.

I was never able to easily understand poetry and for that reason when I was young I usually avoided it as much as possible. The two exceptions are what I read in scripture and a book of assorted Spanish verse that I purchased as a textbook when I was a college student over 40 years ago. The former is found is my daily readings of the Bible and the latter is something I pick up once in a while for a change of pace in exercising my Spanish.

As a reader and former teacher of NT Greek (now retired), I know the challenges of translation and moving from a word-for-word Greek paragraph to a paragraph that makes sense in the English language.

I never got that far even in my Spanish much less in my German. I read Bibles in both regularly to obtain a different perspective. However quite often what God gives me wouldn't match what some translators might give me. You are very fortunate to have the use of one of the original languages in which portions of the Bible were written.

Yes, there are some translations I would question, based on the exegesis of the Greek text, one example being the KJV's translation of Hades, Gehenna & Tartarus as 'hell'. They are 3 different places, but KJV wants us to think they all refer to the same spot - 'hell'.
Oz

I won't argue any point in the Greek versus the English with you then. Perhaps sometime if I have a question you would be open to provide assistance in your areas of expertise. In another place I know an Orthodox priest whose Greek is very good. He and I have gotten along fairly even though on many points, we most certainly did disagree.

 

[Helen]

I admit I don't really understand this thread much
He had to be son of man ...in the temptation in the wilderness.
Jesus as a man had to take back all that Adam lost as a man.

I do believe that He was the I AM during His time on earth ...but I also believe that 'when He came' He laid all His power and glory down.
I think this is shown when He said :- "Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?" Matt 26:53 . His own power was laid aside, it had to be...as He was the second/Last Adam while here... He passed the Adam test in the wilderness temptation. He took back victoriously all that Adam had lost...and the death blow to the devil, of that victory was on the cross. ✟

 

[mjrhealth]

Knowledge is not a bad thing as you make it out to be.

Just because we have knowledge does not mean we are puffed up.
Does not scripture teach us to be ready to give a reason for our believing?
1 Peter 3:15

Really, just take a read of all teh disunity because all these read and study teh bible. We are supposed to be united in Christ so we all have "His" truth nit divided by a book. The only place you can find the truth is in Christ, teh only place you can find life is in Christ, studying all you can will never change that, and there is no ten questions on they bible to enter heaven, it is by faith alone, a gift that no one can earn,

 

[mjrhealth]

Christiaitycannot be a personal belief. It would fall apart in a very short time.
It must be a cohesive idea and one which is believed by everyone.
Doctrine cannot be changed or Christianity will fall.

I guess that is the problem, how many versions of teh bible do you know about, how many "different" religions do we have based on the "bible". there was a reason why we are supposed to be Led by teh Spirit, just that people would rather follow men and religion.

 

[pia]

I don't know who they are. Why don't you forward the link to those you know who do not believe infants and children go to heaven at death.

Over to you.

Gosh, not sure I will have the time to find those posts again. the forum moves quite quickly. Post there one minute, gone the next ( off the main page ).
Anyhow, I doubt they would believe anyway....I feel so sad, that this is the way some really believe God to be.....No wonder there is so much dissent .
Have yourself a great day
Pia

 

[pia]

Are you calling me a blasphemer

No, I was merely pointing out what that word actually means, and I come across people a LOT, who truly believe with everything in them that they are right, because they read it somewhere. I only just found out the true meaning of it a very short time ago.
As far as the rest........You do what you think you must, that's all you can do...It does however concern me a little ( and this is by no means, just you ) that people think of Jesus as what? Braindead? He can't speak for Himself? He has nothing new for anyone? He has been sitting on the throne in Heaven bored out of His skull, with nothing to do for 2 thousand years ? I have zero clue how millions of people declare that they believe in The Resurrected Christ, but mention Him AS Resurrected, well look out, here comes the 'inquisition' ready to take you apart.
You know, there is absolutely nothing I can do to make Jesus real to anyone else......However anyone can, just allow Him in....But when one is so full, of what they 'know' there is no room for Him, nor is He invited to do so.......
I simply won't argue scriptures with you, because Jesus also said :" You search the scriptures daily, THINKING that they give you life, but you REFUSE to come to Me." Remember Jesus IS The Life.
If He couldn't teach without a Bible, how come He could with me, all those years? Even after I got into a Bible. He can do so very much more than you give Him credit for....Why would you limit Him so?
Good luck with it.

 

[pia]

pia,

You speak about a face-to-face encounter you had with Jesus. I have no idea of knowing which Jesus this is. Could it be another spirit?

This is the problem with experience/existentialism. It's up to the individual to try to interpret what happened. That's why I'd trust the Bible any day over experientialism.

Oz

He was someone I did not know at the time, brought up in a totally atheist family,......He came, and through that I had to concede that God is indeed real and so is He...he taught me many many things, which church folk years later showed me were in Bibles, so I got one......As I have said before I can't make Him real for anyone else........Reject it if you wish......It does not affect me, to Him alone I stand !

 

[pia]

You say Jesus is the only human that was able never to sin.
That's because he was NOT a normal human --- He was GOD

NO, see that's where many go wrong......The 'seed' came from God, that we agree on, but for Him to have become the firstborn Son, He first had to be and do just like the first Adam was supposed to have done.
Except Jesus actually did it. His redemption would not have been legal, if He could not have remained without sin, until His time came, which was when He received the Holy spirit.
How could He have conquered as a son of Man, if He was purely God, then God surely could have done what he did thousands of years prior to that....No, God needed a man ( human) to do this.
I can't possibly write everything it took over decades for me to understand this, you really should seek Him and stop all the speculating.....

 

[pia]

We can only state with certainty what is written in our bible

But that is NOT what He died for, to give us.........

 

[bbyrd009]

Doctrine cannot be changed or Christianity will fall.

ha, give us an unchangeable doctrine then, a for instance