Avenge Our Blood!

[VictoryinJesus]

This may be a really long way around a simple question. The question pertains to:

Revelation 6:9-10 KJV
[9] And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: [10] And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

The question is not who they are, under the Altar. That is made clear. It is their cry that causes me to stumble, seeming to be a contradiction. I am NOT saying I have a problem with vengeance being The LORDS. I am saying: I want to know Him, and this is an area that causes conflict within what I already know of a righteous King, and Judge. Warning: I like to post scripture that supports reason for the question.

Demonstration of forgiveness in the OT: Genesis 50:17 KJV
[17] So shall ye say unto Joseph, Forgive, I pray thee now, the trespass of thy brethren, and their sin; for they did unto thee evil: and now, we pray thee, forgive the trespass of the servants of the God of thy father. And Joseph wept when they spake unto him.

The teachings of a righteous King, and Judge:

Matthew 6:11-12 KJV
[11] Give us this day our daily bread. [12] And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

Matthew 6:14-15 KJV
[14] For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: [15] But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Matthew 18:34-35 KJV
[34] And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. [35] So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Mark 11:25 KJV
[25] And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

Matthew 5:43-45 KJV
[43] Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. [44] But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; [45] That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Romans 12:20-21 KJV
[20] Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. [21] Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. --You want to see a miracle. Do this. It does not fail. I have seen these words from the Lord hold true time and time again.

An Example to live by: Christ surrounded by His enemies, what does He do?

Luke 23:34-37 KJV
[34] Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. [35] And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him , saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God. [36] And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar, [37] And saying, If thou be the king of the Jews, save thyself.

Another example: Stephen.

Acts 7:57-60 KJV
[57] Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, [58] And cast him out of the city, and stoned him : and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul. [59] And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God , and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. [60] And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Notice "and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul." I am not familiar with customs, but I assume by the text that Saul gave the command since it was his feet the clothes were laid before. Stephen cries to the Lord for forgiveness of those the trespassed against him. Why is Saul there? Why not any other Pharisee? Why tell us Saul was there when Stephen was stoned.I believe one reason: Stephens prayer is answered. A prayer of forgiveness on an enemy. Saul; a persecutor of Christians and an enemy...becomes Paul. A man shown mercy. His eyes opened.

In Ephesians we are told who the real enemy is:
Ephesians 6:11-13 KJV
[11] Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. [12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places . [13] Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

In Revelation the enemy surrounds Jerusalem, same as the enemy surrounded Jesus on the cross. We are told of "wine fat" from the wine press, and "blood up to the horses bridle". Threading of the grapes...what does it mean? Does Revelation 6: 9-10 not seem completely opposite of what the Lord revealed of God throughout the NT. Many will refer to the OT to support God's vengeance and wrath but even there, within the OT, I see MERCY hidden within the text.

Revelation 6:9-10 KJV
[9] And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: [10] And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I want to add something John Macarthur proposed in one of his sermons about the book of Revelation. The earth takes a beating in the book of revelation when the seals are opened. It seems as if God destroys the earth under his wrath. But yet, through great shaking...the earth is cleansed. A major overhaul takes place. Things shift and change and readjusted for the better...that is kind of how I feel since God touched my life. That is the God I know. He doesn't destroy for sheer pleasure. He makes new.

Look at His design: a seed must die. Before there is new.

 

[Stranger]

This may be a really long way around a simple question. The question pertains to:

Revelation 6:9-10 KJV
[9] And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: [10] And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

The question is not who they are, under the Altar. That is made clear. It is their cry that causes me to stumble, seeming to be a contradiction. I am NOT saying I have a problem with vengeance being The LORDS. I am saying: I want to know Him, and this is an area that causes conflict within what I already know of a righteous King, and Judge. Warning: I like to post scripture that supports reason for the question.

Demonstration of forgiveness in the OT: Genesis 50:17 KJV
[17] So shall ye say unto Joseph, Forgive, I pray thee now, the trespass of thy brethren, and their sin; for they did unto thee evil: and now, we pray thee, forgive the trespass of the servants of the God of thy father. And Joseph wept when they spake unto him.

The teachings of a righteous King, and Judge:

Matthew 6:11-12 KJV
[11] Give us this day our daily bread. [12] And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

Matthew 6:14-15 KJV
[14] For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: [15] But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Matthew 18:34-35 KJV
[34] And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. [35] So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Mark 11:25 KJV
[25] And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

Matthew 5:43-45 KJV
[43] Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. [44] But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; [45] That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Romans 12:20-21 KJV
[20] Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. [21] Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. --You want to see a miracle. Do this. It does not fail. I have seen these words from the Lord hold true time and time again.

An Example to live by: Christ surrounded by His enemies, what does He do?

Luke 23:34-37 KJV
[34] Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. [35] And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him , saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God. [36] And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar, [37] And saying, If thou be the king of the Jews, save thyself.

Another example: Stephen.

Acts 7:57-60 KJV
[57] Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, [58] And cast him out of the city, and stoned him : and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul. [59] And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God , and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. [60] And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Notice "and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul." I am not familiar with customs, but I assume by the text that Saul gave the command since it was his feet the clothes were laid before. Stephen cries to the Lord for forgiveness of those the trespassed against him. Why is Saul there? Why not any other Pharisee? Why tell us Saul was there when Stephen was stoned.I believe one reason: Stephens prayer is answered. A prayer of forgiveness on an enemy. Saul; a persecutor of Christians and an enemy...becomes Paul. A man shown mercy. His eyes opened.

In Ephesians we are told who the real enemy is:
Ephesians 6:11-13 KJV
[11] Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. [12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places . [13] Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

In Revelation the enemy surrounds Jerusalem, same as the enemy surrounded Jesus on the cross. We are told of "wine fat" from the wine press, and "blood up to the horses bridle". Threading of the grapes...what does it mean? Does Revelation 6: 9-10 not seem completely opposite of what the Lord revealed of God throughout the NT. Many will refer to the OT to support God's vengeance and wrath but even there, within the OT, I see MERCY hidden within the text.

Revelation 6:9-10 KJV
[9] And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: [10] And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

You realize that it is Jesus Christ who will be exercising this vengeance and wrath. (Rev. 6:16-17) He who said, 'Father forgive them for they know not what they do' is He who will return and destroy all the unbelieving and enemies of God. There should be no conflict here with His being a righteous King. For it is His righteousness that demands judgement and vengeance.

Stranger

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You realize that it is Jesus Christ who will be exercising this vengeance and wrath. (Rev. 6:16-17) He who said, 'Father forgive them for they know not what they do' is He who will return and destroy all the unbelieving and enemies of God. There should be no conflict here with His being a righteous King. For it is His righteousness that demands judgement and vengeance.

Stranger

Yes, I have read it, Stranger. The Lord's righteousness demands vengeance and wrath...and the heart of man loves vengeance, don't we? Have you ever considered the wine fat going into a previously dug trench, is a great harvest for the LORD? That the blood to the horses bridle is a great harvest of souls, at the sacrice of flesh. I am sorry. Maybe I am a silly woman with too many mushy emotions. Maybe to think; those brought low and made to bow before Him(all)...may also receive mercy, is contrary to Him. I am not saying there is no blood bath during Armageddon. The sinful flesh is of no concern. The prophets were flayed. It is the spirit of a man GOd redeems. I am only saying mans motive, may not be God's motive for the blood bath. HIs ways are higher than ours. Why does famine come? Why does suffering come? Why does wrath and destruction come? For repeantance. I know what man reads and understands it to be but that is out of mans heart for vengeance. That is not what the NT teaches. IT is a fair question: is that God's way? Personally...I think God takes spoils from the enemy (aside from the children)and attones for them. Does that infuriate you? Why? Does pride demand payment? What happens during the thousand years? Why are people still born with sin? Outside the Kingdom? Why is Satan released yet again, for a little while? I know the LORD is powerful, but as much as the power man convets to demonstrate of Him(war, vengeance, judgement) He is also mighty to save! And long suffering.

Isaiah 63:1-4 KJV
[1] Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save. [2] Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat? [3] I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment. [4] For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.
[5] And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me. [6] And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth. [7] I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the Lord , and the praises of the Lord , according to all that the Lord hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his lovingkindnesses. [8] For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Saviour. [9] In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old. [10] But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them. [11] Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying , Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him? [12] That led them by the right hand of Moses with his glorious arm, dividing the water before them, to make himself an everlasting name? [13] That led them through the deep, as an horse in the wilderness, that they should not stumble? [14] As a beast goeth down into the valley, the Spirit of the Lord caused him to rest: so didst thou lead thy people, to make thyself a glorious name. [15] Look down from heaven, and behold from the habitation of thy holiness and of thy glory: where is thy zeal and thy strength, the sounding of thy bowels and of thy mercies toward me? are they restrained?

Also, I am asked to consider: Jesus didn't only walk among the disciples and brethern...he also walked among the blind and the deaf. It is out of a corruptible heart that wars for the sake of vengeance. God wars for righteousness sake.

What if vengeance for the ones under the altar is for their enemies to be brought low and to confess Him as Lord. After all, it is darkness and the devil we war against.

 

[Stranger]

VictoryinJesus

Wrath and destruction in the end times, is not for repentance. It is judgement. Now is the time to repent. Now is the time for salvation. There comes a time when it is over. God said, 'Vengeance is mine saith the Lord, I will repay', (Rom. 12:19)

God has a heart for vengeance just like man does. God always wants to make everything right. You want to portray God as 'sinful' as man because He has a heart for vengeance. That is your thinking that is contrary to His ways. I call it 'old hen' theology. It has contaminated the Church.

God redeems your whole spirit, soul, and body. This is why you get your body back, yet glorified. He doesn't just redeem your spirit.

Are you saying, because God requires payment for sin, that God is prideful? Your or my sin does nothing to take away from God. It takes away from us. God has nothing to be prideful about, He is God. But the cost of sin is death.

Of course God is mighty to save. But He is might to destroy also. I see both. You are centering only on God is mighty to save. That is the 'old hen' theology. God just loves everybody...He is lonely and wants to love you...if you would just love God....ad nauseoum. Does it infuriate me...maybe. It certainly makes me nauseous.

I don't see your point at all. The righteousness of God demands vengeance. When He wars for righteousness, it is vengeance. It is to make things right. He said Himself, 'I will repay'.

The spiritual warfare is always fleshed out here on earth. There are those who are of God and those who are not of God. Not everyone born is a child of God. Only those that are born-again. There are many children of Satan. Not everyone is lost. Those who are not of God, were never lost as they were never His. The lost are those only who are 'of God', and 'born into the fallen race of Adam'.

Stranger

 

[ScottA]

This may be a really long way around a simple question. The question pertains to:

Revelation 6:9-10 KJV
[9] And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: [10] And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

The question is not who they are, under the Altar. That is made clear. It is their cry that causes me to stumble, seeming to be a contradiction. I am NOT saying I have a problem with vengeance being The LORDS. I am saying: I want to know Him, and this is an area that causes conflict within what I already know of a righteous King, and Judge. Warning: I like to post scripture that supports reason for the question.

Demonstration of forgiveness in the OT: Genesis 50:17 KJV
[17] So shall ye say unto Joseph, Forgive, I pray thee now, the trespass of thy brethren, and their sin; for they did unto thee evil: and now, we pray thee, forgive the trespass of the servants of the God of thy father. And Joseph wept when they spake unto him.

The teachings of a righteous King, and Judge:

Matthew 6:11-12 KJV
[11] Give us this day our daily bread. [12] And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

Matthew 6:14-15 KJV
[14] For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: [15] But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Matthew 18:34-35 KJV
[34] And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. [35] So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Mark 11:25 KJV
[25] And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

Matthew 5:43-45 KJV
[43] Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. [44] But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; [45] That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Romans 12:20-21 KJV
[20] Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. [21] Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. --You want to see a miracle. Do this. It does not fail. I have seen these words from the Lord hold true time and time again.

An Example to live by: Christ surrounded by His enemies, what does He do?

Luke 23:34-37 KJV
[34] Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. [35] And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him , saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God. [36] And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar, [37] And saying, If thou be the king of the Jews, save thyself.

Another example: Stephen.

Acts 7:57-60 KJV
[57] Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, [58] And cast him out of the city, and stoned him : and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul. [59] And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God , and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. [60] And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Notice "and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul." I am not familiar with customs, but I assume by the text that Saul gave the command since it was his feet the clothes were laid before. Stephen cries to the Lord for forgiveness of those the trespassed against him. Why is Saul there? Why not any other Pharisee? Why tell us Saul was there when Stephen was stoned.I believe one reason: Stephens prayer is answered. A prayer of forgiveness on an enemy. Saul; a persecutor of Christians and an enemy...becomes Paul. A man shown mercy. His eyes opened.

In Ephesians we are told who the real enemy is:
Ephesians 6:11-13 KJV
[11] Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. [12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places . [13] Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

In Revelation the enemy surrounds Jerusalem, same as the enemy surrounded Jesus on the cross. We are told of "wine fat" from the wine press, and "blood up to the horses bridle". Threading of the grapes...what does it mean? Does Revelation 6: 9-10 not seem completely opposite of what the Lord revealed of God throughout the NT. Many will refer to the OT to support God's vengeance and wrath but even there, within the OT, I see MERCY hidden within the text.

Revelation 6:9-10 KJV
[9] And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: [10] And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

I want to add something John Macarthur proposed in one of his sermons about the book of Revelation. The earth takes a beating in the book of revelation when the seals are opened. It seems as if God destroys the earth under his wrath. But yet, through great shaking...the earth is cleansed. A major overhaul takes place. Things shift and change and readjusted for the better...that is kind of how I feel since God touched my life. That is the God I know. He doesn't destroy for sheer pleasure. He makes new.

Look at His design: a seed must die. Before there is new.

It's just the word they used, which was appropriate for that time - an eye for an eye, sacrifice, and all that. Bringing that up to date, we would say "justice." But make no mistake, the wages of sin, is death.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

VictoryinJesus

Wrath and destruction in the end times, is not for repentance. It is judgement. Now is the time to repent. Now is the time for salvation. There comes a time when it is over. God said, 'Vengeance is mine saith the Lord, I will repay', (Rom. 12:19)

God has a heart for vengeance just like man does. God always wants to make everything right. You want to portray God as 'sinful' as man because He has a heart for vengeance. That is your thinking that is contrary to His ways. I call it 'old hen' theology. It has contaminated the Church.

God redeems your whole spirit, soul, and body. This is why you get your body back, yet glorified. He doesn't just redeem your spirit.

Are you saying, because God requires payment for sin, that God is prideful? Your or my sin does nothing to take away from God. It takes away from us. God has nothing to be prideful about, He is God. But the cost of sin is death.

Of course God is mighty to save. But He is might to destroy also. I see both. You are centering only on God is mighty to save. That is the 'old hen' theology. God just loves everybody...He is lonely and wants to love you...if you would just love God....ad nauseoum. Does it infuriate me...maybe. It certainly makes me nauseous.

I don't see your point at all. The righteousness of God demands vengeance. When He wars for righteousness, it is vengeance. It is to make things right. He said Himself, 'I will repay'.

The spiritual warfare is always fleshed out here on earth. There are those who are of God and those who are not of God. Not everyone born is a child of God. Only those that are born-again. There are many children of Satan. Not everyone is lost. Those who are not of God, were never lost as they were never His. The lost are those only who are 'of God', and 'born into the fallen race of Adam'.

Stranger

Stranger, thank for your reply. I will consider the 'old hen' theology. I don't want to be deceived or led astray. I don't want to be an "old hen". I appreciate you taking the time to address my questions. It is odd: I started with a God that is vengeance and wrath only, I could not see His love. At all. I am not trying to be sappy. I know the wages of sin is death. If you don't mind, this is what I am trying to say:

For some reason, i have been under the thumb of pride and arrogance for most of my life. God allowed me to be there. All I witnessed was judgement. Those men responsible for the abuse did the will of God, by driving me toward God; when the devils plan was to drive me from God.


I think of your testimony in another thread concerning the chained dog and how even he has his place. A question for you? How did the chained dog get that way? Angry. Vengeful. Was others performing the will of God by chaining him...for what purpose? I take it that you believe God allowed it for him to become a machine of fury; teeth and tearing when deemed appropriate. But possibly: That dog has one of two options whenever the chain breaks:


He can either display mans disgrace: by giving what he has been given by man.


Or he can display grace: giving what he has been given by God. The opposite of man.

Which displays Christ?
Which did Christ say display a child of God? Do you hate your enemies? The ones that harmed and abused you? Have you forgiven them?

Or do you want them to pay?

 

[Stranger]

Stranger, thank for your reply. I will consider the 'old hen' theology. I don't want to be deceived or led astray. I don't want to be an "old hen". I appreciate you taking the time to address my questions. It is odd: I started with a God that is vengeance and wrath only, I could not see His love. At all. I am not trying to be sappy. I know the wages of sin is death. If you don't mind, this is what I am trying to say:

For some reason, i have been under the thumb of pride and arrogance for most of my life. God allowed me to be there. All I witnessed was judgement. Those men responsible for the abuse did the will of God, by driving me toward God; when the devils plan was to drive me from God.


I think of your testimony in another thread concerning the chained dog and how even he has his place. A question for you? How did the chained dog get that way? Angry. Vengeful. Was others performing the will of God by chaining him...for what purpose? I take it that you believe God allowed it for him to become a machine of fury; teeth and tearing when deemed appropriate. But possibly: That dog has one of two options whenever the chain breaks:


He can either display mans disgrace: by giving what he has given by man.


Or he can display grace: giving what he has been given by God. The opposite of man.

Which displays Christ?
Which did Christ say display a child of God? Do you hate your enemies? The ones that harmed and abused you? Have you forgiven them?

Or do you want them to pay?

I was too young to know why the dog, 'shorty' was tied. Probably because he was mean from the beginning. Being tied also probably made him meaner. But, true story again: Years ago I was looking for a house in the country. My wife and first born was with me in the Ozarks. We went to look at a cabin on a mountain. When we got there, there were many dogs of all varieties, each chained to a different tree. We got out of the car, and the owner came out to meet us. My daughter was about 5 at the time. She saw one of the dogs, which was a small dog. And she immediately went over to pet it. The owner immediately shouted for her to get away from that dog, cause he will tear you up.

I then asked the man, why are all these dogs chained. He said he chains them to make them mean. Then he sells them as watch dogs for people or companies. He said people in Houston buy a lot of them. I asked him, how does this make them mean. He said everyday the dogs are beaten. If you want a dog to hate a white man, then have a white man beat that dog. If you want a dog to hate a black man, have a black man beat that dog. etc. etc.

I would disagree. The dog has no option when the chain breaks. He acts on instinct alone. Dogs don't think, they react. They react to everything that runs contrary to their senses. Sight, smell, motion.

I view my enemies as the enemies of God and Christ and His people. And I am not interested in forgiving them.

Stranger

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I was too young to know why the dog, 'shorty' was tied. Probably because he was mean from the beginning. Being tied also probably made him meaner. But, true story again: Years ago I was looking for a house in the country. My wife and first born was with me in the Ozarks. We went to look at a cabin on a mountain. When we got there, there were many dogs of all varieties, each chained to a different tree. We got out of the car, and the owner came out to meet us. My daughter was about 5 at the time. She saw one of the dogs, which was a small dog. And she immediately went over to pet it. The owner immediately shouted for her to get away from that dog, cause he will tear you up.

I then asked the man, why are all these dogs chained. He said he chains them to make them mean. Then he sells them as watch dogs for people or companies. He said people in Houston buy a lot of them. I asked him, how does this make them mean. He said everyday the dogs are beaten. If you want a dog to hate a white man, then have a white man beat that dog. If you want a dog to hate a black man, have a black man beat that dog. etc. etc.

I would disagree. The dog has no option when the chain breaks. He acts on instinct alone. Dogs don't think, they react. They react to everything that runs contrary to their senses. Sight, smell, motion.

I view my enemies as the enemies of God and Christ and His people. And I am not interested in forgiving them.

Stranger

It is a honour to talk to you or receive any input from you, Stranger. I respect your view. I respect your strength, although I wonder if it is a detriment. Final word, then I will leave you to it. My husband was awakened the other night to:

1 Corinthians 4:12-13 KJV
[12] And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it: [13] Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.

We intreat.

Matthew 5:44-45 KJV
[44] But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; [45] That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

We either believe it. Or we don't. We are either willing to do God's will. Or we will do our own. I was once an enemy of God, therefore one of your enemies also. Maybe you still consider it so.

 

[Stranger]

It is a honour to talk to you or receive any input from you, Stranger. I respect your view. I respect your strength, although I wonder if it is a detriment. Final word, then I will leave you to it. My husband was awakened the other night to:

1 Corinthians 4:12-13 KJV
[12] And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it: [13] Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.

We intreat.

Matthew 5:44-45 KJV
[44] But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; [45] That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

We either believe it. Or we don't. We are either willing to do God's will. Or we will do our own. I was once an enemy of God, therefore one of your enemies also. Maybe you still consider it so.

And pleasure speaking with you. I don't believe you were ever an enemy of God. Lost, yes. Enemy, probably not.

I appreciate your words and will take them to heart.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

I am NOT saying I have a problem with vengeance being The LORDS. I am saying: I want to know Him, and this is an area that causes conflict within what I already know of a righteous King, and Judge.

note that the plea actually illustrates God's endless Grace though, however; it is the souls that are pleading for vengeance. very much :/

 

[bbyrd009]

I want to add something John Macarthur proposed in one of his sermons about the book of Revelation. The earth takes a beating in the book of revelation when the seals are opened. It seems as if God destroys the earth under his wrath. But yet, through great shaking...the earth is cleansed. A major overhaul takes place. Things shift and change and readjusted for the better...that is kind of how I feel since God touched my life. That is the God I know. He doesn't destroy for sheer pleasure. He makes new.

Look at His design: a seed must die. Before there is new.

"creation is continuous, and never stops"

 

[bbyrd009]

You realize that it is Jesus Christ who will be exercising this vengeance and wrath. (Rev. 6:16-17) He who said, 'Father forgive them for they know not what they do' is He who will return and destroy all the unbelieving and enemies of God. There should be no conflict here with His being a righteous King. For it is His righteousness that demands judgement and vengeance.

Stranger

yikes.


Who told you that you were naked? Here, have a skin

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I was too young to know why the dog, 'shorty' was tied. Probably because he was mean from the beginning. Being tied also probably made him meaner. But, true story again: Years ago I was looking for a house in the country. My wife and first born was with me in the Ozarks. We went to look at a cabin on a mountain. When we got there, there were many dogs of all varieties, each chained to a different tree. We got out of the car, and the owner came out to meet us. My daughter was about 5 at the time. She saw one of the dogs, which was a small dog. And she immediately went over to pet it. The owner immediately shouted for her to get away from that dog, cause he will tear you up.

I then asked the man, why are all these dogs chained. He said he chains them to make them mean. Then he sells them as watch dogs for people or companies. He said people in Houston buy a lot of them. I asked him, how does this make them mean. He said everyday the dogs are beaten. If you want a dog to hate a white man, then have a white man beat that dog. If you want a dog to hate a black man, have a black man beat that dog. etc. etc.

I would disagree. The dog has no option when the chain breaks. He acts on instinct alone. Dogs don't think, they react. They react to everything that runs contrary to their senses. Sight, smell, motion.

I view my enemies as the enemies of God and Christ and His people. And I am not interested in forgiving them.

Stranger

I thought about what you shared about the dog and how he has no choice but to react off instinct...I thought all night about it. You are wrong. God didn't use men to abuse me so I would hate men. HE allowed the abuse of men in my life to weaken me to where I would break and come to the only source for healing and a sound mind. I could have ended up a feminist. I could have ended up rejecting Gods plan for the man as leader and head of the home. I am not all about love and hugging everybody. I don't support homosexuality, because it is against Gods design. But I do love the person trapped in the dark. I haven't shaved my head and become a fighter for women's rights. I fight for marriage because it displays Him. I could careless about what this world says. I am interested in what God says. He tells me He made man to be so much more. HE made them to be strong leaders of their homes and families. Yes, they are natural protectors...I can see that in you. But they are also ate up with pride; that is not from God.


It is a honour to be the weaker vessel. What does scripture teach about weakness? Where do the weak find strength?

I am going to share a story with you. I hope you will glean something from it. God led me a long time ago to a prideful man that became my husband. But he is also a Godly man. It took God years to show my husband that I am here to support and add to him. That I am help, not an enemy. Recently God put this seventy year old man in both our paths. This man is the epitome of pride and arrogance. He and my husband clash big time. One evening this man verbally attacked me. He sat with his hands folded behind his head, grinned, and everything that came out of his mouth was against God. I could see Satan. Yet I also saw a small boy; abused, neglected, and beat down by the world. A boy lost in darkness. I came at this man's hardness with love. With mercy.

Later, when I shared what happened with my husband. He was disgusted with me. He told me if I wanted to sing kumbaya holding hands around a campfire with those kind of people, to go right ahead.

The other night when my husband was awakened to
1 Corinthians 4:13 KJV
[13] Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.

My husband woke me to say: you displayed Christ and I mocked it.

I have seen Him. Not in my imagination but in power. I have seen fruit. Fruit of the Spirit. Holding a grudge is not strength. Forgiveness is not a weakness...it is strength. It is the power of heaven and misunderstood and rejected by a world that hates Him. I think of Christ and how much strength he displayed when being flogged and beat and cursed and ridiculed and mocked...He forgave. The world looks at the cross as His weakest moment. It was His strongest moment. We are children of God. His word tells us that AS children we show the world the model of our Father. Not the model the world showed us. What is the model, Stranger.

I realize God has every right to squash man underneathe His fury. I realise sin leads to death. What I am questioning is mans definition of war. I am questioning mans definition of power. I don't see that our definition follows the model very well. For now; I believe the souls under the altar are crying out for Christ to reap. For Christ to receive glory. I don't think their cry originates out of mans definition and heart...their blood was shed for Christ.

Christ is the object of their affection.
Not this world.


1 Corinthians 4:19-21 KJV
[19] But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power. [20] For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power. [21] What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?

 

[tabletalk]

I thought about what you shared about the dog and how he has no choice but to react off instinct...I thought all night about it. You are wrong. God didn't use men to abuse me so I would hate men. HE allowed the abuse of men in my life to weaken me to where I would break and come to the only source for healing and a sound mind. I could have ended up a feminist. I could have ended up rejecting Gods plan for the man as leader and head of the home. I am not all about love and hugging everybody. I don't support homosexuality, because it is against Gods design. But I do love the person trapped in the dark. I haven't shaved my head and become a fighter for women's rights. I fight for marriage because it displays Him. I could careless about what this world says. I am interested in what God says. He tells me He made man to be so much more. HE made them to be strong leaders of their homes and families. Yes, they are natural protectors...I can see that in you. But they are also ate up with pride; that is not from God.


It is a honour to be the weaker vessel. What does scripture teach about weakness? Where do the weak find strength?

I am going to share a story with you. I hope you will glean something from it. God led me a long time ago to a prideful man that became my husband. But he is also a Godly man. It took God years to show my husband that I am here to support and add to him. That I am help, not an enemy. Recently God put this seventy year old man in both our paths. This man is the epitome of pride and arrogance. He and my husband clash big time. One evening this man verbally attacked me. He sat with his hands folded behind his head, grinned, and everything that came out of his mouth was against God. I could see Satan. Yet I also saw a small boy; abused, neglected, and beat down by the world. A boy lost in darkness. I came at this man's hardness with love. With mercy.

Later, when I shared what happened with my husband. He was disgusted with me. He told me if I wanted to sing kumbaya holding hands around a campfire with those kind of people, to go right ahead.

The other night when my husband was awakened to
1 Corinthians 4:13 KJV
[13] Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.

My husband woke me to say: you displayed Christ and I mocked it.

I have seen Him. Not in my imagination but in power. I have seen fruit. Fruit of the Spirit. Holding a grudge is not strength. Forgiveness is not a weakness...it is strength. It is the power of heaven and misunderstood and rejected by a world that hates Him. I think of Christ and how much strength he displayed when being flogged and beat and cursed and ridiculed and mocked...He forgave. The world looks at the cross as His weakest moment. It was His strongest moment. We are children of God. His word tells us that AS children we show the world the model of our Father. Not the model the world showed us. What is the model, Stranger.

I realize God has every right to squash man underneathe His fury. I realise sin leads to death. What I am questioning is mans definition of war. I am questioning mans definition of power. I don't see that our definition follows the model very well. For now; I believe the souls under the altar are crying out for Christ to reap. For Christ to receive glory. I don't think their cry originates out of mans definition and heart...their blood was shed for Christ.

Christ is the object of their affection.
Not this world.


1 Corinthians 4:19-21 KJV
[19] But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power. [20] For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power. [21] What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?

You said: "My husband woke me to say: you displayed Christ and I mocked it."

Thank you for this encouraging testimony and exhortation.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I am studying "avenge" and praying over the OP.

In the New Testament avenge is translated from the Greek ekdikeo, "to do justice," "to protect" (Luke 18:3 et al.) and the King James Version Revelation 18:20, krino, "to judge" Revised Version (British and American) "God hath judged your judgment".

Avenger.--That is, the person who inflicts punishment upon the evil-doer for a wrong experienced by himself (from naqam, "to avenge"; Psalms 8:2 et al.) or by someone else from ga'al, "to redeem"; (Numbers 35:12 et al.). In the New Testament avenger occurs only once; "the Lord is an avenger in all things" (1 Thessalonians 4:6). It was the duty of the nearest relative to execute vengeance upon the murderer of his kin:

he became the go'el. With reference to the protective legislation and custom, see GOEL. Compare BLOOD; REVENGE, REVENGER.

It is interesting that "avenge" is connected to: "visit".

Luke 18:2-8 KJV
[2] Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man: [3] And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary. [4] And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man; [5] Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me. [6] And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith. [7] And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? [8] I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

What does "Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" have to do with avenge?

Any thoughts?

 

[Stranger]

I thought about what you shared about the dog and how he has no choice but to react off instinct...I thought all night about it. You are wrong. God didn't use men to abuse me so I would hate men. HE allowed the abuse of men in my life to weaken me to where I would break and come to the only source for healing and a sound mind. I could have ended up a feminist. I could have ended up rejecting Gods plan for the man as leader and head of the home. I am not all about love and hugging everybody. I don't support homosexuality, because it is against Gods design. But I do love the person trapped in the dark. I haven't shaved my head and become a fighter for women's rights. I fight for marriage because it displays Him. I could careless about what this world says. I am interested in what God says. He tells me He made man to be so much more. HE made them to be strong leaders of their homes and families. Yes, they are natural protectors...I can see that in you. But they are also ate up with pride; that is not from God.


It is a honour to be the weaker vessel. What does scripture teach about weakness? Where do the weak find strength?

I am going to share a story with you. I hope you will glean something from it. God led me a long time ago to a prideful man that became my husband. But he is also a Godly man. It took God years to show my husband that I am here to support and add to him. That I am help, not an enemy. Recently God put this seventy year old man in both our paths. This man is the epitome of pride and arrogance. He and my husband clash big time. One evening this man verbally attacked me. He sat with his hands folded behind his head, grinned, and everything that came out of his mouth was against God. I could see Satan. Yet I also saw a small boy; abused, neglected, and beat down by the world. A boy lost in darkness. I came at this man's hardness with love. With mercy.

Later, when I shared what happened with my husband. He was disgusted with me. He told me if I wanted to sing kumbaya holding hands around a campfire with those kind of people, to go right ahead.

The other night when my husband was awakened to
1 Corinthians 4:13 KJV
[13] Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.

My husband woke me to say: you displayed Christ and I mocked it.

I have seen Him. Not in my imagination but in power. I have seen fruit. Fruit of the Spirit. Holding a grudge is not strength. Forgiveness is not a weakness...it is strength. It is the power of heaven and misunderstood and rejected by a world that hates Him. I think of Christ and how much strength he displayed when being flogged and beat and cursed and ridiculed and mocked...He forgave. The world looks at the cross as His weakest moment. It was His strongest moment. We are children of God. His word tells us that AS children we show the world the model of our Father. Not the model the world showed us. What is the model, Stranger.

I realize God has every right to squash man underneathe His fury. I realise sin leads to death. What I am questioning is mans definition of war. I am questioning mans definition of power. I don't see that our definition follows the model very well. For now; I believe the souls under the altar are crying out for Christ to reap. For Christ to receive glory. I don't think their cry originates out of mans definition and heart...their blood was shed for Christ.

Christ is the object of their affection.
Not this world.


1 Corinthians 4:19-21 KJV
[19] But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power. [20] For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power. [21] What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?

Well, I am not wrong about the dog. Dogs don't think. They react. And an abused dog or conditioned dog will act accordingly. Dogs don't make a choice, they react as they are programmed.

We as humans made in the image of God are a higher order of beings. But we are not immune to our experiences developing in us characteristics that we carry with us the rest of our lives. And God brings those experiences in our lives for that purpose.

As to being prideful, many times the term 'pride' is used instead of 'brave'. If you are going to a movie with your husband and walking down the street and several thugs attack you with intent to harm and rape you, what should your husband do? Should he say, I'm praying for you honey? God will be with you? And then start praying? Should He ask God to help you and then forgive these men for what they are going to do to you?

If your husband decides to defend you and do all he can to stop these attackers even if it means killing them, is he prideful? It is easier for a man to suffer wrong and abuse when he is the only one involved during the suffering. To have others involved in the wrong will cause the man to react to help or to stop the wrong. Is that prideful...I don't think so. Is that displaying Christ...I do think so.

You ask me what is the model? (Rom. 12:18) comes to mind. "If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men." With some it is not possible.

Stranger

 

[DPMartin]

victoryinjesus maybe you need to understand a simple principle here. the first man was to be the son of God:
Luk 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

and I am sure you have heard Jesus being referred to as the second Adam. of which in a sense He is in respect to the Life God gave Adam that was lost. and from Him are all that are in the Kingdom of God.

anyway that means we "man" have been given God's place in the earth, as in dominion over all the creatures or life therein. also we are answerable to God, where as animals are not. why? because we have God's place in the earth. the place man's souls occupied in the earth was not made for wickedness, Jesus is the Light of the world, and the world is not supposed to be a place for darkness.

so man allowed lies to be in God's place in the earth, and only God can remove it. how? that would be by removing all liars from the flesh. and only the sons of God remain. now how and when? the Lord leaves us with enough to know it will come to pass. the request of those mentioned in revelation are the request of those who had already walked to walk you refer to, even at the expense of this life. the requirement was met, while yet in the flesh, and there is no requirement anymore.

if the job requires you to be nice and polite while you do the job even though you would be justified to do otherwise. then that is fine. but once the job is done to the master's satisfaction. you don't have to be nice anymore. the cause for which you were being nice doesn't exist.

 

[Stranger]

victoryinjesus maybe you need to understand a simple principle here. the first man was to be the son of God:
Luk 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

and I am sure you have heard Jesus being referred to as the second Adam. of which in a sense He is in respect to the Life God gave Adam that was lost. and from Him are all that are in the Kingdom of God.

anyway that means we "man" have been given God's place in the earth, as in dominion over all the creatures or life therein. also we are answerable to God, where as animals are not. why? because we have God's place in the earth. the place man's souls occupied in the earth was not made for wickedness, Jesus is the Light of the world, and the world is not supposed to be a place for darkness.

so man allowed lies to be in God's place in the earth, and only God can remove it. how? that would be by removing all liars from the flesh. and only the sons of God remain. now how and when? the Lord leaves us with enough to know it will come to pass. the request of those mentioned in revelation are the request of those who had already walked to walk you refer to, even at the expense of this life. the requirement was met, while yet in the flesh, and there is no requirement anymore.

if the job requires you to be nice and polite while you do the job even though you would be justified to do otherwise. then that is fine. but once the job is done to the master's satisfaction. you don't have to be nice anymore. the cause for which you were being nice doesn't exist.

One slight correction. Jesus is the 'last Adam'. Never the '2nd Adam'. It is a common error but needs to be corrected.

Stranger

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The Spirit of Prophecy.

Revelation 14:12-20 KJV

[12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. [13] And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them. [14] And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. [15] And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. [16] And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. [17] And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. [18] And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. [19] And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and (gathered the vine of the earth), and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. [20] And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.


Isaiah 63:3-5 KJV

[3] I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment. [4] For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come. [5] And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me.


Revelation 19:14-16 KJV

[14] And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. [15] And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. [16] And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS .



Revelation 15:5-8 KJV

[5] And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of (the testimony in heaven) was opened: [6] And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles. [7] And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever. [8] And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.


For the testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of prophecy. (Revelation 19:10)


Revelation 22:7 KJV

[7] Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book(the testimony of Jesus).


Daniel 9:24 KJV

[24] Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy (the testimony of Jesus), and to anoint the most Holy.

Hebrews 10:28-35 KJV

[28] He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: [29] Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? [30] For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. [31] It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. [32] But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions; [33] Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used. [34] For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance. [35] Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.


Matthew 5:46-48 KJV

[46] For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others ? do not even the publicans so? [48] Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.