Sola Scriptura - does this foundation make you a heretic

[bbyrd009]

Where does a teacher teach? typically where people gather to learn.

not disagreeing here, but where do people go to learn? Where Christ tells us that we make into a den of thieves, that creates "a son of hell twice as bad as you are." Have you studied yet under a single pastor that has not signed a 501c3? Regardless of how earnest they might be?

Does that mean that they do not exist, if you never met one?

Jesus pretty well stood that all up on its head, and He could hardly be equated with the other rabbis there imo.

 

[bbyrd009]

They're not advertised much, and they may not always be as open as they sometime want to claim, but as I have said they are much closer than most. There is no central headquarters giving orders, so there definitely differences from one assembly to the next, however, some of them are quite good. On the other hand, some are quite the other direction. I hear a lot of good words spoken and I have a visited a few in the vicinity of northern Oklahoma, but they all over the country with more grouped closer together in the Ohio\Kentucky areas. You would have to try one for yourself. Send me a PM if interested.

what org are you referencing, Amadeus? i searched your previous posts but saw no mention, ty

 

[tabletalk]

Some / many sects of Christianity demand that anyone asserting that they are Christian must agree to specific creeds in order to truly be Christians.... creeds such as the Apostles creed;

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

Can anyone point out the specific parts of this creed which cannot be found in scripture?

This seems like a creed also; from your post with the question *Can anyone provide an answer for why Eve was created in the manner that is written in Genesis.*
You said:
"I am sincerely fishing for those who can answer the question. These people have the spirit of truth promised to help guide them on their path and it is these who are the true body of Christ."

If I have the wrong answer (or no answer) to that question, according to you, then I am not part of the "true body of Christ"?

 

[Stranger]

This is based on Exodus 21:12-36;
This talks about personal injuries, starts with monetary payments and ends with monetary payments.
In the middle we see an eye for an eye.
This has to be considered figurative with a monetary payment applied.
Why?
Because no where in Jewish history is there any record that the Jews ever took this literally and actually took an eye for an eye.
Famous Jewish Rabbis discuss this in the Talmud with several explanations.

Then when we look at Matthew 5:38-42;, we see Jesus telling us not to seek an eye for an eye or a tooth for a tooth.
What does Jesus then say?
He says to give, give, give, and give more than what anyone asks for.
Why is giving part of an eye for an eye passage?
Because it was always about giving to pay for damages.
Jesus is saying give, no matter what the situation.

There is nothing figurative about (Ex.21:12-36).

The Jews failed to keep a whole lot of their law. Just made them lawbreakers.

The law of the kingdom is not the same as the law of Moses. But the Jews were required to follow the law of Moses until change came.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

I interpret them as they were intended.

i'm sure you have had occasion to witness how a verse can yield more than one meaning, right
something happens, and you are minded of a verse, but from a different angle or whatever

 

[amadeus]

what org are you referencing, Amadeus? i searched your previous posts but saw no mention, ty

It is not an organization as most church groups are organized. They have no official name. Their only real human leadership is whatever leaders are in the local assemblies. While I agree with much of what they do and believe, I am not what they would call 100%. For this reason I won't post more on the open forum. I have been connected [if that is the right word] with them since shortly after I moved to Oklahoma in 1987. If you really want more specific information contact me by PM.

 

[Marymog]

If the traditions defined by the many denominations starting with the one developed in the 3rd century were from scripture alone then there would be no error.
The truth KBCid states is that "men should not follow mans traditions but should live by every word of the mouth of God alone" sound familiar?

Deut 8:3 .....that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live

Hi KBCid,

Which scripture do you get your "scripture alone" from? The various Orthodox churches who have various numbers of books in their bible. The Catholics who have 73 books or the Protestant who have 66 books?

Where in scripture Alone is the list of books?

Mary

 

[Mjh29]

The Bible is the written words that God spoke to anointed men.

THIS IS THE WORD.

John 1 1 "In the beginning was The Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. HE was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."

The Word of God is a person not a Book....however wonderful the book is...it is not The Word.
It is the wonderful spoken words of God.

The clear scriptures quoted above prove this.

Then why would Jesus use Scripture to rebuke Satan and not his own words?

 

[Mjh29]

the breath of God, as available to you as to any Apostle. I'm guessing the Book of Truth is prolly also Word, but then we do not have the Book of Truth available to us i guess

Well that's just a breeding ground for heresy

 

[Armadillo]

Then why would Jesus use Scripture to rebuke Satan and not his own words?

He did use His own words.

 

[Mjh29]

He did use His own words.

But they are direct quotations from Scripture

 

[Armadillo]

But they are direct quotations from Scripture

When Jesus quotes Deuteronomy, He changed a word, did He not know the scriptures? And why didn't the devil call Him on it?

 

[KBCid]

so you say, but in a sense now you are saying that you understand the mind of God, and anyone who interprets differently is wrong, yes?

Did not imply anywhere or at any time that I know the mind of God. We have scripture and history to make a determination from. If you think that it is all lies you then have your choice

 

[Mjh29]

When Jesus quotes Deuteronomy, He changed a word, did He not know the scriptures? And why didn't the devil call Him on it?

Thank you so much for proving my point! Jesus CAN change the wording because it is his word. Yet, he did not say
"Ya know, Satan, here's what I think," because Scripture, His Word, had already dealt with these problems. Satan didn't call him out on it because it's His Book! He is the living Scriptures. Would you get on Martin Luther for changing one of his quotes to better fit a situation? Of course not! In fact he is the only one qualified to do so.

 

[Mjh29]

Did not imply anywhere or at any time that I know the mind of God. We have scripture and history to make a determination from. If you think that it is all lies you then have your choice

And have no hope for salvation

 

[Armadillo]

Thank you so much for proving my point! Jesus CAN change the wording because it is his word. Yet, he did not say
"Ya know, Satan, here's what I think," because Scripture, His Word, had already dealt with these problems. Satan didn't call him out on it because it's His Book! He is the living Scriptures. Would you get on Martin Luther for changing one of his quotes to better fit a situation? Of course not! In fact he is the only one qualified to do so.

And when Jesus changed the word fear into worship, can we not do the same?

 

[KBCid]

This seems like a creed also; from your post with the question *Can anyone provide an answer for why Eve was created in the manner that is written in Genesis.*
You said:
"I am sincerely fishing for those who can answer the question. These people have the spirit of truth promised to help guide them on their path and it is these who are the true body of Christ."
If I have the wrong answer (or no answer) to that question, according to you, then I am not part of the "true body of Christ"?

ah I see the nature of your private message now and no its not a creed. The holy spirit reveals and leads us into truth. He is sent as a helper to those he is given to so, I am seeking those who actually have the spirit since many will assert they have it and a simple test will reveal the truth.
If you have the holy spirit you can query him for any truth that God wants you to know and it will be revealed to you.

So if you cannot ask for illumination on my simple question and get the truth then you have yet to receive the helper. This in no way means you won't get it or can't get it. It simply means we are at different places in our walk with Christ.

The truth be told I was amazed that the truth was not absolutely apparent without the assistance of the helper once it was revealed. It reminds me of the adage that the best place to hide something is in plain sight.

John 17:21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.

I Cor. 1:10 Now I plead with you, Brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same things and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[KBCid]

Hi KBCid,
Which scripture do you get your "scripture alone" from? The various Orthodox churches who have various numbers of books in their bible. The Catholics who have 73 books or the Protestant who have 66 books?
Where in scripture Alone is the list of books? Mary

From God. The sheep know his voice
Most people use mans linguistic translations what do you use?

 

[KBCid]

Thank you so much for proving my point! Jesus CAN change the wording because it is his word.

The word - Christ can indeed use any words that convey the intent of the Father

 

[bbyrd009]

Well that's just a breeding ground for heresy

i'm sure it seems like that maybe; seemed that way to me at first, too. I believed the Bible was Word my whole life.

If you would like, i guess we could go through it; or you could see for yourself; just set out to prove Scripturally that Book is Word, or to be fair you should set out to prove that it is not Word, maybe, that's how i do it, but you might be different there. Of course there is no definitive "proof" in Scripture, but you might listen along the way, and see what you hear.

Your best shot is in Chronicles i guess, II i think it is? And i want to stress that the Book was God~Breathed, came from Word iow, ok? this is not some dismissal of Scripture. More like recognizing what Scripture tells us; that scribes can change the Book, and even if they could not, if you were not standing there hearing It, it is not Word, as any example of two English speakers in a discussion where one of them is not getting it might illuminate.