Unconditional love ?

[Dcopymope]

Unconditional love does not mean that you like everything that a person does. I do not like everything my children do, but they know I love them regardless of what they do.
Maybe it's how we define unconditional that makes the difference as to how we view it. Butterfly

Here we go again.......your children? Am I supposed to expect you to not love your own children unconditionally? That's not too hard to do. Once again, your own flesh and blood is one thing, but loving total strangers, or "brothers" as its called 'unconditionally' is another thing entirely. No one does that, I don't care if someone claims they do, they are liar's regardless.

 

[Butterfly]

Here we go again.......your children? Am I supposed to expect you to not love your own children unconditionally? That's not too hard to do. Once again, your own flesh and blood is one thing, but loving total strangers, or "brothers" as its called 'unconditionally' is another thing entirely. No one does that, I don't care if someone claims they do, they are liar's regardless.

If you read the opening line of my post, I was explaining that unconditional love does not mean you like what a person does, Jesus did not ' like ' what the Pharisees stood for, or their attitudes - and he dealt with those issues, he addressed them. Then I merely went on to use my children as an example.
Do you honestly believe that loving children, especially adult ones, is always easy - what world do you live in. Blimey my children have done a lot to challenge that over the years. I realise, and accept that their is a bond that helps that, but to say ' that's not to hard to do ' very much depends on what kind of children you have and what they do.
You have raised an interesting point and I will reflect on it, but I was merely making ONE point about unconditional love.
At this point in time the thought of even considering Jesus did not have unconditional love is a bit daunting, but only because I have not considered it before - also the verse you mentioned, always read it one way, so I need time to reflect on that as well.
So I am not disregarding what you have said , or claiming that I disagree- I am thinking about it x

 

[Dcopymope]

If you read the opening line of my post, I was explaining that unconditional love does not mean you like what a person does, Jesus did not ' like ' what the Pharisees stood for, or their attitudes - and he dealt with those issues, he addressed them. Then I merely went on to use my children as an example.
Do you honestly believe that loving children, especially adult ones, is always easy - what world do you live in. Blimey my children have done a lot to challenge that over the years. I realise, and accept that their is a bond that helps that, but to say ' that's not to hard to do ' very. I have depends on what kind of children you have and what they do.
You have raised an interesting point and I will reflect on it, but I was merely making ONE point about unconditional love.
At this point in time the thought of even considering Jesus did not have unconditional love is a bit daunting, but only because I have not considered it before - also the verse you mentioned, always read it one way, so I need time to reflect on that as well.
So I am not disregarding what you have said , or claiming that I disagree- I am thinking about it x

Well, here is another thing you need to think about.....Would you consider the Lake of Fire judgement 'unconditional' love? Unconditional love as you define it is loving someone despite their actions, yet Jesus will toss untold numbers into the fire for exactly this reason, their actions, and not just their actions, but for everything they have ever thought, and every word they ever uttered. Is there anything in the Bible more daunting than eternal damnation? If God's love was unconditional in the way you define it, there wouldn't be a coming judgment to begin with. It is stated that he loved the world so much that he sent his son to atone for our sins so that we be saved, but that's only for those who come to repentance. Is that really 100% unconditional love?

 

[bbyrd009]

Am I supposed to expect you to not love your own children unconditionally? That's not too hard to do.

that's pretty much on a bell curve with people too, i guess. Kinda hard to believe, i know

 

[bbyrd009]

No one does that, I don't care if someone claims they do, they are liar's regardless.

now you are denying Scripture in order to express your heart, prolly not the way to go. People do that all of the time, i guess. Um, both things

 

[bbyrd009]

Well, here is another thing you need to think about.....Would you consider the Lake of Fire judgement 'unconditional' love? Unconditional love as you define it is loving someone despite their actions, yet Jesus will toss untold numbers into the fire for exactly this reason, their actions, and not just their actions, but for everything they have ever thought, and every word they ever uttered.

again, this is your perspective though, and Scripture does not characterize this the same way. All go to the same place. Meshak, Shadrak, and Abed-nego weren't complaining

 

[bbyrd009]

If God's love was unconditional in the way you define it, there wouldn't be a coming judgment to begin with.

fwiw that "coming" part? You made that part up too, ok. Or someone did for you. Understand I AM. Judgement is "coming tomorrow" only in the context of "reaping." You are going to reap what you sow.

Christ plainly outs the concept of hell, in "perfect (unconditional) love drives out fear, which comes from the concept of punishment" paraphrased, i can go dig it up if you like though. 1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love; instead, perfect love drives out fear, because fear involves punishment.
So the one who fears has not reached perfection in love.

So what is really going on is that you are expressing your fears, which did not come from God, ok, even if they came from your pastor. And you might not be willing to let them go right now--i'm guessing that they will leave about the time you recognize that many people do exhibit unconditional love at some point (not me though, i'm still pretty much with you there lol)--but hopefully you see on some level that they are all yours.

And in that case, you have not really gone far enough, i guess. Your worst fears? They are coming, ok. They are going to happen. Your worst fears are going to come upon you. And God has no problem with you eating your children, if that is what you sow, but that does not make that of God.

 

[bbyrd009]

Is that really 100% unconditional love?

not from my pov, it isn't. Imo you should have been killed as soon as you committed the first sin, so that you could not spread your fear. Of course i am dramatizing, but understand the point. You are fearing God in a certain way, when it is God's unconditional love that is protecting you, right now. Because out in nature, you could not be suffered to live, simply as a matter of self preservation of the herd, see.

 

[amadeus]

You asked me what I meant by the word world, of which I responded is the dirt we stand on, and you are for some reason harping on a whole lot about.............whatever your point is supposed to be. Are you saying that the world God created, which in the beginning was good, is in fact carnal? Will the new world to come be 'carnal'? I'm really not sure what your point is.

My point is this. Take a good look at the people and their society that you see around you. In the beginning God made everything "very good" [Gen 1:31], so what has happened? Man and man's ways beginning with Adam and Eve is what has happened. That which is contained in this little bit of dirt which is you and me has been corrupted. We were born to our natural/carnal mother effectively dead in the eyes of God, but He did provide us with Hope.

While the "very good" which is God was gone from us, God sent His Son, Jesus, who brought Life [the "very good"] to whosoever will. He provided us with the possibility of once again being "very good". Never mind about planet Earth the globe on which our bodies of flesh and bone dwell. That is only a lessor part of our stewardship. The important part of our stewardship is the little lump of flesh [dirt] and that which is within it. We have been provided the means to do "very good". That is our more important part.

 

[bbyrd009]

nice! I would say that it is likely important to get the diff in Erets and Kosmou, Earth and World, if for no other reason than to understand the symbolism in Scripture. We are called to separate from the world, not the earth, etc.

 

[amadeus]

nice! I would say that it is likely important to get the diff in Erets and Kosmou, Earth and World, if for no other reason than to understand the symbolism in Scripture. We are called to separate from the world, not the earth, etc.

Unfortunately, too many people are still working in support of their own theory or doctrine or whatever one wants to call it instead of in really wanting to grow and wanting to help others to grow closer to God. The really bad part is that most of the best ones are the ones who visit Christian forums like this one rather than simply sitting regularly on a church pew and nothing else that really pertains to serving or pleasing God. I was going to say more... but it likely would not have been very edifying to the readers. In any case, Give God the glory!

 

[Butterfly]

Well, here is another thing you need to think about.....Would you consider the Lake of Fire judgement 'unconditional' love? Unconditional love as you define it is loving someone despite their actions, yet Jesus will toss untold numbers into the fire for exactly this reason, their actions, and not just their actions, but for everything they have ever thought, and every word they ever uttered. Is there anything in the Bible more daunting than eternal damnation? If God's love was unconditional in the way you define it, there wouldn't be a coming judgment to begin with. It is stated that he loved the world so much that he sent his son to atone for our sins so that we be saved, but that's only for those who come to repentance. Is that really 100% unconditional love?

I am sorry but I do not have a problem with Gods unconditional love, and as far as judgment goes, I trust in a just God and tend to leave what happens ' at the end ' to him. I do believe Satan and his followers are doomed to a fiery end but whether or not I believe that ' hell ' exists is another matter.
I have heard all kinds of theories and thoughts, the simple truth is , at this stage, I simply do not know .I am not totally sure I have defined unconditional love, I merely offered up a strand of what I saw from your post about Jesus and the Pharisees - so please do not jump to conclusions about what I understand.
The passage you mentioned , in context, was about Jesus being tested by the religious authorities. The quote revolves around the Pharisees having a go, obviously wanting him to say something so that they could accuse him. I think the bigger question, and a link to the second part, was ' how much do you love God ' If you love God with all your heart, body and soul, the result will be the ability to love others as God does. Now I do not believe anyone of us can 100% claim to be able to do that- I believe it is all part of the journey of redemption and will not be complete until we have gone through death. I do believe that the closer we grow towards God, the more of Gods love comes through and we are able to love others more. I know that I have more compassion and mercy for a wider group of people than I use to have, and yet at times it is a mystery to me- I kind of know it's Gods compassion and mercy within me.
Do I believe Jesus had unconditional love, well I do believe that he could claim to love God in the way that is required, so I am pretty sure he loved as God loved.
That's what I pulled from the reflections on the passage you shared.......
Butterfly

 

[DPMartin]

Unfortunately, too many people are still working in support of their own theory or doctrine or whatever one wants to call it instead of in really wanting to grow and wanting to help others to grow closer to God. The really bad part is that most of the best ones are the ones who visit Christian forums like this one rather than simply sitting regularly on a church pew and nothing else that really pertains to serving or pleasing God. I was going to say more... but it likely would not have been very edifying to the readers. In any case, Give God the glory!

well said

I was just watching some promotional of a automotive industry convention and notice that there those who love the attention of those who love cars and the like. ya-know the Lord loves the attention of those who love His Righteousness, Mercy, Judgement, Love, Faith, Hope, Wisdom, Knowledge, Understanding, Truth, Way and Life.


even the Almighty has conditions:

Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.




unconditional is a fantasy, a pet dog's love is considered unconditional and a pet dog loves you as you don't hate him or are not a threat to him or what he is loyal to. there is no unconditional love, its only imaginary, and senseless when they try to practice it. its actually enabling for the wicked, and it is those who love wickedness that promote it. not one verse in the bible KJV states "unconditional love" therefore there is no reason given by God to teach such things in Christian society.

 

[bbyrd009]

unconditional is a fantasy, a pet dog's love is considered unconditional and a pet dog loves you as you don't hate him or are not a threat to him or what he is loyal to. there is no unconditional love, its only imaginary, and senseless when they try to practice it. its actually enabling for the wicked, and it is those who love wickedness that promote it. not one verse in the bible KJV states "unconditional love"

"Who told you that you were naked? Here, have a skin then."

For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son.

 

[DPMartin]

your opinion:

"Who told you that you were naked? Here, have a skin then."

For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son.

God's opinion:


Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.


sorry only God's opinion counts here, in this case. you may want it to be unconditional, and you may want what you quoted to mean unconditional, but it ain't no such thing.


though it is true that :

Luk_6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.



but its not unconditional love, this is applied always in every case : Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

there is a big difference on what is forgiven for, and what a servant of the Lord is to do to be effective in the cause of finding unthankful and evil that would love the Lord God first. though that is some what of a side track the point being man has no say so in God's love what so ever towards men. He does. the world via Adam which was the son of God was " lost" and God restored the world to Himself via His Beloved Son Jesus Christ. that is not unconditional love, because one must be restored unto one's Maker via His Son, that in and of itself is a condition.

 

[Dcopymope]

well said

I was just watching some promotional of a automotive industry convention and notice that there those who love the attention of those who love cars and the like. ya-know the Lord loves the attention of those who love His Righteousness, Mercy, Judgement, Love, Faith, Hope, Wisdom, Knowledge, Understanding, Truth, Way and Life.


even the Almighty has conditions:

Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.




unconditional is a fantasy, a pet dog's love is considered unconditional and a pet dog loves you as you don't hate him or are not a threat to him or what he is loyal to. there is no unconditional love, its only imaginary, and senseless when they try to practice it. its actually enabling for the wicked, and it is those who love wickedness that promote it. not one verse in the bible KJV states "unconditional love" therefore there is no reason given by God to teach such things in Christian society.

You would mostly hear about "unconditional love" from the hyper grace believers, and I would ask them if the following verse fits at all with this belief:

(Matthew 7:21-23) "¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. {22} Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? {23} And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

How does this fit in with their hyper grace, love everyone no matter the conditions clap trap?

 

[Butterfly]

What's hyper grace - not heard that expression before ?

 

[DPMartin]

You would mostly hear about "unconditional love" from the hyper grace believers, and I would ask them if the following verse fits at all with this belief:



How does this fit in with their hyper grace, love everyone no matter the conditions clap trap?

though I'm not sure what is meant by hyper grace, never heard the term, you might be surprised to learn that unconditional love is within the catholic ranks also. at least I have run into such in the past.

though the grace is there for all born of Noah, faith is a requirement hence a condition, the rest is usually fixable or removable or replaceable. and one trusts who they love and believes in who they love (real faith), and loves the things they are and about them. and with the Lord this is two way, because if one is born again then one is a child of God who is Loved by the Father. because one has received the Life of the Beloved Son of God. but to those who are not His or not to be His, that is a different story.

 

[aspen]

You mean to say that there are Christians who believe we are called to love conditionally?

 

[bbyrd009]

You mean to say that there are Christians who believe we are called to love conditionally?

lol. Ya, judging others is not going anywhere today i guess