The Law of Moses Has Not Been Abolished

[christiang]

I have been reading my Bibles daily in three languages for going on 40 years. I now read the entirety of each of the three Bibles in a little less than 2 years. This is a seven day a week work for me. I am not bragging. That is simply what I do. That does not count the Bible study times spent outside of regular reading times. I also clean our house and care for my semi-invalid wife. Of course things like sports and TV and other entertainment are left in last place. They are seldom considered in things that I do each day.

Do you realize how many commentaries and writings by Christians or people who call themselves Christians there are? It would be a physical impossibility for most [all?] people to read them all in a lifetime. I am almost 74 years old. How many more years do you suppose I have? [You needn't answer that last question.]

There are very few people teaching what I am teaching, which is why I urge other believers to read my material, for your benefit. But, I can't force anyone to read, so if you don't want to, then don't.

 

[christiang]

I am one of the ones that is not only implying but stating in no uncertain terms that the seventh day Sabbath was made for man to commune with his maker AS THE MAKER INTENDED IT TO BE. I don't work and I spend the whole waking time seeking the manna from heaven.
If I eat several times in that period or go to the bathroom or perform any needful things, God knows that I do them according to their design and if by chance I go out of my house and have a picnic with the Lord in the midst of the creation they know that my mind is fixed on them and should I perceive that I can do good to my neighbor in my walk with God then Christ has shown us that this is acceptable behavior.

The Sabbath was made merely as an appointed time for the the sake of man, not man made for the sake of the Sabbath. The Sabbath shall indeed pass away along with the Law that commanded it. How you serve God is not be avoiding work on the Sabbath, or don't you think the Pharisees would've attained such righteousness in their zealous observation of Sabbath? No, the way to serve God is by doing good unto others, good works. Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, house the homeless, etc. This is your required way to serve God, not Sabbath observation. This is why God said, "your Sabbaths I cannot endure... learn to do good; seek justice, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow".

 

[bbyrd009]

which would be worthless if I am on ignore. For the whole purpose, would be so that he could see the issues in some of his so-called "studies".

ha well, your whole purpose, but remember all of the cloud that might come through here too. Some of them will even find this thread based upon some search, that's how i got here

 

[KBCid]

Nor I, though I did not read it carefully.
He mentioned Galatians 4:9-10, which I have long stated is not a reference to the appointed times of YHVH, but rather to such as:
Deuteronomy 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch ...

Of course everything falls into context by simply going one verse before Gal 4:9-10
Galatians 4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.

This context is a definite reference to pagan practices

In Galatians 3:1, Paul starts out with: "who has bewitched you". It is my opinion, that Paul had Devarim 18:10 in mind while writing that.
Due to the "circumcision" controversy, and what better way to stir up controversy, it was determined:
Act 15:20 but that we write unto them, that they abstain from the pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from what is strangled, and from blood.
And immediately following:
Act 15:21 For Moses from generations of old hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath.
Why include that there? Unless, it was to mean that the new "believers" would learn as they heard the "Word" of the Instruction each shabat.

Christ's words dealing with the Sabbath lawful actions where he says "it is well to do well on the Sabbath day" finds depth of meaning in the idea that foreigners were being taught about God and his ways on the Fathers holy day of rest.

 

[amadeus]

There are very few people teaching what I am teaching, which is why I urge other believers to read my material, for your benefit. But, I can't force anyone to read, so if you don't want to, then don't.

Ok, my friend, perhaps against my own better judgment, this morning I took my time and read your study. You have gone to a lot of work and made some good points, but there were also a number of things with which I did not agree. I did not take note of our differences but of course they do exist. You keep on working for God, but don't let you head get above the clouds. Also don't lose hope because few even bother to read. Also don't give up because even fewer may agree.

In the years I have strived to serve God He has changed me many times and I expect that if I stay by Him He will change me some more before it is all said and done for me in this flesh. Don't hold yourself so inflexible that even God cannot change you. If you don't and you are faithful toward Him, He will probably be changing you also.

May God richly bless and you strive to be in obedience to His Will.

Only God gives the increase!

 

[KBCid]

The Sabbath was made merely as an appointed time for the the sake of man, not man made for the sake of the Sabbath.

Yes that would be commonly understood by most people.

The Sabbath shall indeed pass away along with the Law that commanded it.

No it won't. This is where you do the Pharisee thing and add something which is not in the text and attempt to pass it off as real.
Show me the scripture that confirms what you are saying. Remember the Sabbath existed prior to any covenant and even in the covenant it was stated to remember it.

How you serve God is not be avoiding work on the Sabbath, or don't you think the Pharisees would've attained such righteousness in their zealous observation of Sabbath? No, the way to serve God is by doing good unto others, good works. Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, house the homeless, etc. This is your required way to serve God, not Sabbath observation. This is why God said, "your Sabbaths I cannot endure... learn to do good; seek justice, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow".

working is finding your own pleasure since one works for their individual benefit. When I say I don't work I mean I am not working a Job to get money. Now there is no restriction to working at understanding scripture or working a food bank to feed the poor. All things must be taken in the context of what GOD intended.

 

[Helen]

Romans 8:2 "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, "


In life there are two laws at work. The law of the Spirit of life in Jesus and the law of sin and death. There are many other illustrations of this same point... two kingdoms (kingdom of light versus darkness), two trees in the garden, two cities (New Jerusalem and fallen Babylon), etc.

We no longer have to live by the law of sin and death because of the finished work of Jesus Christ.
We have been translated from the kingdom of darkness and now live in the Kingdom of the Son. Yay!!

 

[Richard_oti]

ha well, your whole purpose, but remember all of the cloud that might come through here too. Some of them will even find this thread based upon some search, that's how i got here

Let's face it though, websites can be relatively short lived. Not to say that this one shall be, but it also is relatively young, and has undergone a lot of change and growth. I once knew a man some 15 years ago who went to great lengths to leave a "digital record". Today, I would be hard pressed to find any of it, and it is not likely to turn up in a search amidst the myriad that is the web, if any of it still exists.

As for your search, you apparently searched this site to receive the hit. Sure, some shall come through and perhaps stumble across it as this site is not all that vast in comparison with that which is the web. But let us also not assume that they are ignorant or that YHVH can not also lead and direct them / protect them. I'm not all that partial to playing to the crowd / audience. Both @KBCid and yourself have also spoken with said person. There is enough here already IMO that I don't need to pursue such. I have already pursued it to the point of being ludicrous.

 

[Richard_oti]

Romans 8:2 "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, "

Rom 8:7 because the mind of the flesh is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be:

<chuckle> Sorry ByGrace, no offense intended, it is an obligatory response from my perspective. For just as I appreciate your perspective, I hope you can appreciate mine.

<snip>

 

[christiang]

Yes that would be commonly understood by most people.



No it won't. This is where you do the Pharisee thing and add something which is not in the text and attempt to pass it off as real.
Show me the scripture that confirms what you are saying. Remember the Sabbath existed prior to any covenant and even in the covenant it was stated to remember it.



working is finding your own pleasure since one works for their individual benefit. When I say I don't work I mean I am not working a Job to get money. Now there is no restriction to working at understanding scripture or working a food bank to feed the poor. All things must be taken in the context of what GOD intended.

And the old covenant shall pass away, along with the Law that came through it,

By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear. (Hebrews 8:13 [NIV])

For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:18 [NIV])

Which includes the command to observe the Sabbath. The time of the Sabbath is a command pertinent to this heaven and earth, not the next heaven and earth, where God will determine newly appointed times there. The Sabbath is an aeonial command, not an eternal command. You err in your understanding.

 

[christiang]

Romans 8:2 "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, "


In life there are two laws at work. The law of the Spirit of life in Jesus and the law of sin and death. There are many other illustrations of this same point... two kingdoms (kingdom of light versus darkness), two trees in the garden, two cities (New Jerusalem and fallen Babylon), etc.

We no longer have to live by the law of sin and death because of the finished work of Jesus Christ.
We have been translated from the kingdom of darkness and now live in the Kingdom of the Son. Yay!!

Do you not understand that this passage speaks of being freed from the sinful nature, by the baptism of the holy spirit, which in turn releases you from the Law since you have been freed by the sin that held you captive, which subsequently puts you under Law? In either case, whether under Law, or released from Law, you are never without Law of God, otherwise you are "lawless". Read this study Repentance and Sin No More, Perfection and Born of the Spirit | Wisdom of God .

 

[bbyrd009]

Today, I would be hard pressed to find any of it, and it is not likely to turn up in a search amidst the myriad that is the web, if any of it still exists.

there are ways, but diff subject, point made

As for your search, you apparently searched this site to receive the hit.

hmm, i searched a subject phrase, and was led to a post in here. "Dialectic reasoning," if i remember right.

I'm not all that partial to playing to the crowd / audience.

of course, i get that, but at the same time they do exist

 

[bbyrd009]

Do you not understand that this passage speaks of being freed from the sinful nature, by the baptism of the holy spirit, which in turn releases you from the Law since you have been freed by the sin that held you captive, which subsequently puts you under Law?

and when someone in that position finds themselves back in sin, as in your case here, what then? Denial = salvation? Or, you may have already confessed and apologized, in which case i am out of line here

but the point should still be addressed, that being what happens when i do understand all of that up there, yet i am faced with someone who believes all that, yet is still obviously mired in sin and denial?

 

[bbyrd009]

Read this study Repentance and Sin No More, Perfection and Born of the Spirit | Wisdom of God .

man, if this study got you to where you are, i will be avoiding it like the plague, with all due respect.

 

[KBCid]

Rom 8:7 because the mind of the flesh is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be:

Now I wonder how many understand exactly why the "mind of the flesh" cannot be subject to the law of God.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Now I wonder how many understand exactly why the "mind of the flesh" cannot be subject to the law of God.

Subject: To be under obedience (obedient) put under subdue unto (be make) subject (to unto) be (put) in subjection (to under) submit self unto.

Romans 8:7-8 KJV
[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. [8] So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

The "carnal mind" cannot be obedient or submit(subject) to the Law of God because the "carnal mind" is enmity against God in disobedience....the "carnal mind" cannot please God.

The "mind of Christ" is subject to the law and is obedience to the law. "A sound mind"

 

[Richard_oti]

Now I wonder how many understand exactly why the "mind of the flesh" cannot be subject to the law of God.

That is indeed the question.

 

[Richard_oti]

hmm, i searched a subject phrase, and was led to a post in here. "Dialectic reasoning," if i remember right.

Understood.

of course, i get that, but at the same time they do exist

Indeed. However, I am also not arrogant enough to believe that many people read my posts or anyone gives them all that much attention or any real notice. The purpose for me, is to engage in discussion, and perhaps pass along some little thing, and perhaps gain some.

I noticed that in post 434, you recommended someone avoiding certain study(s) like the plague. Those are in fact the "studies" written by the one in question. Those are that which I requested permission to C&P in so that I might show one or a few of them for what they really are. Having read one, would you care to spend the time to go through one and respond on a point point basis?

 

[mjrhealth]

man, if this study got you to where you are, i will be avoiding it like the plague, with all due respect.

When it starts off, with Repentance means to stop sinning, that was it for me. Remember the prodigal son, what did he do when the repented, he turned back to his father so he could tell him what a fool he was.

Luk 15:18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,

what did his father do

he rejoiced not because of the apology but because,

Luk 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

than come teh religious

Luk 15:29 And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
Luk 15:30 But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.

Oh if only men could understand our father has for us if ONLY we would turn back to Him.

 

[christiang]

When it starts off, with Repentance means to stop sinning, that was it for me. Remember the prodigal son, what did he do when the repented, he turned back to his father so he could tell him what a fool he was.

Luk 15:18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,

what did his father do

he rejoiced not because of the apology but because,

Luk 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

than come teh religious

Luk 15:29 And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
Luk 15:30 But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.

Oh if only men could understand our father has for us if ONLY we would turn back to Him.

So you take the passage of the prodigal son to mean that it is permitted for you to carry on sinning? Or is it perhaps that it means that he departed, but then eventually came back and stopped sinning? There has to be a point in your life where you must stop sinning and become blameless, otherwise you will never enter into the kingdom of God,

A psalm of David. LORD, who may dwell in your sacred tent? Who may live on your holy mountain? The one whose walk is blameless, who does what is righteous, who speaks the truth from their heart; (Psalm 15:1-2 [NIV])

so that you may approve what is excellent, and so be pure and blameless for the day of Christ, (Philippians 1:10 [ESV])

Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thessalonians 5:23 [ESV])