The Law of Moses Has Not Been Abolished

[mjrhealth]

So you take the passage of the prodigal son to mean that it is permitted for you to carry on sinning? Or is it perhaps that it means that he departed, but then eventually came back and stopped sinning? There has to be a point in your life where you must stop sinning and become blameless, otherwise you will never enter into the kingdom of God,

A psalm of David. LORD, who may dwell in your sacred tent? Who may live on your holy mountain? The one whose walk is blameless, who does what is righteous, who speaks the truth from their heart; (Psalm 15:1-2 [NIV])

so that you may approve what is excellent, and so be pure and blameless for the day of Christ, (Philippians 1:10 [ESV])

Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thessalonians 5:23 [ESV])

Absolutely not, that is your take on every thing, God made it all about forgiveness, mankind made it all about sin, god gave us the right to be human, the religious made it a sin, God sent Jesus to set us free, but so many so called christians where more free as unbelievers, God gave us His spirit, even Jesus dress us in His righteousness so we will not be condemned, but the religious condemn everyone even them selves. Like you, they demand we do things that they them selves cannot do. You will never be free from your sins, because you wear the yoke of the law around your neck like a gold medallion instead of the yoke that Christ gives us that bonds us to Him.

Mat_11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat_11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

and you have stated again and again, it is not His you wear. You would rater glory in your works than glory in His, to your own condemnation.

 

[christiang]

Absolutely not, that is your take on every thing, God made it all about forgiveness, mankind made it all about sin, god gave us the right to be human, the religious made it a sin, God sent Jesus to set us free, but so many so called christians where more free as unbelievers, God gave us His spirit, even Jesus dress us in His righteousness so we will not be condemned, but the religious condemn everyone even them selves. Like you, they demand we do things that they them selves cannot do. You will never be free from your sins, because you wear the yoke of the law around your neck like a gold medallion instead of the yoke that Christ gives us that bonds us to Him.

Mat_11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat_11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

and you have stated again and again, it is not His you wear. You would rater glory in your works than glory in His, to your own condemnation.

It actually grieves me to hear you say that. Because you think the forgiveness of God is a license to continue sinning, not knowing that forgiveness of God means quite the opposite, an opportunity to stop sinning and be forgiven of sins you have committed in the past. Sigh, so wide is the path to perdition, and while many do come to the belief of Jesus Christ, they fall short because of various lies and unbelief. The same thing happened with the Israelites, where all did indeed cross the Red Sea with Moses, but many were destroyed without mercy because of sin and unbelief. If such was the case in the ministry of angels, how much more so in the ministry of the son of God?

 

[KBCid]

Subject: To be under obedience (obedient) put under subdue unto (be make) subject (to unto) be (put) in subjection (to under) submit self unto.

We all grasp what it means to be in subjection but you have not answered the question....
Why 'CAN'T' the "mind of the flesh" be subject to the law of God?
To be able to answer this question one must first be able to define what the "mind of the flesh" is in the first place.

 

[bbyrd009]

However, I am also not arrogant enough to believe that many people read my posts or anyone gives them all that much attention or any real notice. The purpose for me, is to engage in discussion, and perhaps pass along some little thing, and perhaps gain some.

ha well may i suggest that your posts are replied to much less than they are read, and all of that is merely...the seen, lol, what you see, and maybe not what is really going on. Because what is not seen is that even though some reply may be argued in the moment, you are nonetheless working a change, possibly even in the one arguing. You are not privy to what may keep them up at night, some thing you have said that clicks later or whatever, regardless of their argument in the moment.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

We all grasp what it means to be in subjection but you have not answered the question....
Why 'CAN'T' the "mind of the flesh" be subject to the law of God?
To be able to answer this question one must first be able to define what the "mind of the flesh" is in the first place.

Oh. I didn't realize this was a trick question. You have my understanding (at the moment): the "mind of flesh" cannot be subject to what it rejects... which is the law of God. That is the why.

The "mind of the flesh" being the adversary of God (the enmity) which was destroyed by Christ through obedience and the Son being "subject" to the law of God.

I cannot wait to read your answer as to why "the mind of flesh" cannot be subject to the law of God. Hopefully the Spirit will speak wisdom.

 

[bbyrd009]

I noticed that in post 434, you recommended someone avoiding certain study(s) like the plague. Those are in fact the "studies" written by the one in question. Those are that which I requested permission to C&P in so that I might show one or a few of them for what they really are. Having read one, would you care to spend the time to go through one and respond on a point point basis?

ha well i had hoped that my point there might be understood, that being that if that study got that person to where they are, being so righteous that they no longer feel like they are like the rest of men, then what is there to recommend it to me? Not that the study itself would be bad necessarily, so i apologize if that was what was understood.

christiang is surely overflowing with knowledge, and i wouldn't try to dispute that. I'm pretty sure my objections will mirror yours, we could even separately develop a list or whatever and see, but christiang might be speaking to certain seekers, and imo we might just be interfering more than helping, because we obviously do not speak cg's language right now, so we would just be speaking in tongues to him, and his audience. If your eating meat offends someone, it is better to not eat meat around them, right--not because the idols that the meat was offered to are real, but because of the perception, iow.

We will be perceived to be eating corrupted meat, and we will have to admit that we are intentionally offending a brother. Now imo if he were to ask that would be different, or, being a forum and all, even if another seeker drawn to his study were to enquire of us, but calculate the odds of someone drawn to his message or him actually requesting this, and see that we have our answer already.

You have already volunteered and been rejected, right? So imo a better option would be to address the disputed points in an appropriate thread, without even referencing the study.

And if cg wants to believe that he has gotten baptized with the Spirit, and now cannot possibly sin, despite the several witnesses that have testified otherwise here, then if the witnesses cannot be heard, "they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead."

 

[bbyrd009]

When it starts off, with Repentance means to stop sinning, that was it for me.

i understand, but i also remember when that was an important lesson for me, and all i can do now is obscure that lesson for someone who needs it right now imo. We are told to not pull tares, see. Not calling your study tares, by any means, what i mean is we are told to not pull tares because "tares" is a value judgement, see, i would do as well to castigate you for your dismissal of Scripture or whatever, how will you respond to that? Isn't it better for me to understand that you are just speaking in tongues, and i should hear what you are really trying to say there, which i even agree with?

Oh if only men could understand our father has for us if ONLY we would turn back to Him.

oh, if you could only understand how your concept of Christ and even the Bible is hidden in Scripture, from the wise.
I just feel so bad for you, bro. See, how is that being accepted on your end? That is not love; it is codependence.

 

[bbyrd009]

So you take the passage of the prodigal son to mean that it is permitted for you to carry on sinning? Or is it perhaps that it means that he departed, but then eventually came back and stopped sinning? There has to be a point in your life where you must stop sinning and become blameless, otherwise you will never enter into the kingdom of God,

A psalm of David. LORD, who may dwell in your sacred tent? Who may live on your holy mountain? The one whose walk is blameless, who does what is righteous, who speaks the truth from their heart; (Psalm 15:1-2 [NIV])

so that you may approve what is excellent, and so be pure and blameless for the day of Christ, (Philippians 1:10 [ESV])

Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thessalonians 5:23 [ESV])

amen.

Now, there is a counterfeit for this of course, just like there is for everything, and we currently understand the counterfeit as "perfectionism," but it does no good to just tell someone to not be a perfectionist; one has to experience why not in order to understand why, iow.

"It is like someone who looks in a mirror, and then immediately forgets what they look like as soon as they walk away from the mirror" makes no sense, until it can be understood, see. The same mouth that professes being possessed by the Holy Spirit tells me that i am an idiot, and you currently have a justification for this that serves you, iow, not to beat dead horses or bring up old stuff pointlessly here, because i don't care, i even understand.

These are hard lessons, that take years to learn, and even then only after much seeking and knocking. Most people never progress to most of the more important lessons, because they are painful, we are talking about dying to self here.

A little public profession (that is now alla sudden replacing "confession" now, even in most Bibles, now "profession = confession," as of like yesterday i guess, anyone else noticing this?) along the lines of "ty jesus for keeping Me out of hell" is...ha well, it's adequate if you believe it is adequate, i guess.

 

[KBCid]

Oh. I didn't realize this was a trick question. You have my understanding (at the moment): the "mind of flesh" cannot be subject to what it rejects... which is the law of God. That is the why.
The "mind of the flesh" being the adversary of God (the enmity) which was destroyed by Christ through obedience and the Son being "subject" to the law of God.
I cannot wait to read your answer as to why "the mind of flesh" cannot be subject to the law of God. Hopefully the Spirit will speak wisdom.

Well it was not intended as a trick question. The question is intended to get others to really assess what may not be correctly comprehended upon initial reading.
Your initial assessment is that "the carnal mind can't be subject because it "rejects" the law of God. It is common for a man to assume that if the word mind is used in reference to something that it is always alluding to something that makes cognitive decisions however, in the case of the carnal mind it is not a cognitive decision maker.
The carnal mind / mind of the flesh is the programmed instincts that keep the creature alive from infancy. A baby cries on instinct, a mothers intuition for her child runs on instinct. Each of the things that are attributed to the flesh are in fact referencing those things contained in the programmed and genetically conveyed part of the creature.
This instinct does not run on a cognitive rationale. It does not make rational decisions since like a program it acts or reacts based solely on what the programming contains. This is the exact reason why it cannot be subject to the laws of God. Programmed actions / reactions do not possess the intellectual capacity to evaluate right and wrong.
When a typical normal male views the female form it has very specific instinctual reactions and the same is true for the females viewing males. If God had not programmed in the instinctual desire for the opposite sex then there really would be no reason for them to ever want to get together. This animal instinct exists within the whole of the animal kingdom and drives the persistence of a species to exist.
With this understanding in mind reread the various scriptures that talk of the flesh and see if it makes better sense now;

1 Cor 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Romans 12:1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship.

Remember the law of Moses that defined how the people were to sacrifice animals to God to cover their sins. These actions were a shadow of what was to come. The true worshippers will sacrifice their own animalistic bodies that used to be ruled by the animal instincts inherent in them and that are not on their own subject to Gods laws.
We as the spirits who inhabit the fleshly temples are to bring our bodies under control and keep it that way because we are supposed to be instruments of righteousness for God's purposes.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Well it was not intended as a trick question. The question is intended to get others to really assess what may not be correctly comprehended upon initial reading.
Your initial assessment is that "the carnal mind can't be subject because it "rejects" the law of God. It is common for a man to assume that if the word mind is used in reference to something that it is always alluding to something that makes cognitive decisions however, in the case of the carnal mind it is not a cognitive decision maker.
The carnal mind / mind of the flesh is the programmed instincts that keep the creature alive from infancy. A baby cries on instinct, a mothers intuition for her child runs on instinct. Each of the things that are attributed to the flesh are in fact referencing those things contained in the programmed and genetically conveyed part of the creature.
This instinct does not run on a cognitive rationale. It does not make rational decisions since like a program it acts or reacts based solely on what the programming contains. This is the exact reason why it cannot be subject to the laws of God. Programmed actions / reactions do not possess the intellectual capacity to evaluate right and wrong.
When a typical normal male views the female form it has very specific instinctual reactions and the same is true for the females viewing males. If God had not programmed in the instinctual desire for the opposite sex then there really would be no reason for them to ever want to get together. This animal instinct exists within the whole of the animal kingdom and drives the persistence of a species to exist.
With this understanding in mind reread the various scriptures that talk of the flesh and see if it makes better sense now;

1 Cor 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Romans 12:1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship.

Remember the law of Moses that defined how the people were to sacrifice animals to God to cover their sins. These actions were a shadow of what was to come. The true worshippers will sacrifice their own animalistic bodies that used to be ruled by the animal instincts inherent in them and that are not on their own subject to Gods laws.
We as the spirits who inhabit the fleshly temples are to bring our bodies under control and keep it that way because we are supposed to be instruments of righteousness for God's purposes.

I will have to consider what you shared and pray over it. If you are right, then I am in serious error. I understand:

1 Cor 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

To mean: having preached the message of the gospel of Jesus Christ; his death and resurrection to others, then it was also necessary for Paul to live and model what he preached which was faith. The gospel of grace.

Paul preached grace and mercy through Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Paul taught it is not by works of the flesh in keeping the commandments but by faith in the blood of the Lamb. If 1Cor 9:26 is really Paul speaking of beating his body into obedience of the law, then Paul is still preaching the Old covenant rather then the new.

But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection...to the gospel of grace.

"lest that by any means, when I have preached(grace) to others, I myself should be a castaway."

The only way to be a cast away is to reject Christ sacrifice as sufficient and continue under our own works and merit. Paul had to submit to the truth that being found "blameless" in the sight of God...had absolutely nothing to do with Paul. That is an ego buster.

 

[KBCid]

I will have to consider what you shared and pray over it. If you are right, then I am in serious error. I understand: 1 Cor 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
To mean: having preached the message of the gospel of Jesus Christ; his death and resurrection to others, then it was also necessary for Paul to live and model what he preached which was faith. The gospel of grace.

Paul is preaching that he is putting into subjection all that he has control over. God is not going to do it for you and he will not make a voluntary sinner righteous. What you submit yourself too is what identifies your master.

Paul preached grace and mercy through Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Paul taught it is not by works of the flesh in keeping the commandments but by faith in the blood of the Lamb. If 1Cor 9:26 is really Paul speaking of beating his body into obedience of the law, then Paul is still preaching the Old covenant rather then the new. But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection...to the gospel of grace. "lest that by any means, when I have preached(grace) to others, I myself should be a castaway." The only way to be a cast away is to reject Christ sacrifice as sufficient and continue under our own works and merit. Paul had to submit to the truth that being found "blameless" in the sight of God...had absolutely nothing to do with Paul. That is an ego buster.

You say that Paul preached Jesus Christ but what did Christ preach? Did he say to sin no more? or was his message that we could submit to sin and he would cover it? You mention the old covenant as though in its entirety it is done away with and yet;

Ephesians 6 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. 2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise; 3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

Right there in the new covenant we are given a reference to the moral Decalogue that asserts that performing according to the commandments intent that we can still attain to its promise. Again in Colossians there is reference to putting off those things in this covenant that God had asserted were evil in the Old covenant;

Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: 6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: 7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. 8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds....

How can one "put off the old man with his deeds?" unless one takes control of the fleshly body and forces it to stay within God's guidelines....

1 Thess 2:11 As ye know how we exhorted and comforted and charged every one of you, as a father doth his children, 12 That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.

1 Thess 4:4 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more. 2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus. 3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: 4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; 5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God: 6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified. 7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. 8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

Do you know how to "possess your vessel in sanctification and honour"?

 

[Richard_oti]

You have already volunteered and been rejected, right? So imo a better option would be to address the disputed points in an appropriate thread, without even referencing the study.

FINE!!!

Geesh!

I was trying to ignore this... And it seems I shall have no peace while I attempt to do so.

But not tonight. For tonight, acknowledgement is as far as I am willing to go. I am tired.

 

[mjrhealth]

oh, if you could only understand how your concept of Christ and even the Bible is hidden in Scripture, from the wise.
I just feel so bad for you, bro. See, how is that being accepted on your end? That is not love; it is codependence.

??

See how it works, a man is supposed to go to Christ, and ask, than Jesus knowing where a man is at, will start teaching that man, but He cannot teach any one who is already filled, just as you cant fill a glass of mud with water, you have to empty it first. So than HE starts, one little bit, than when you get that bit He takes you a little further, coudl take a day. or many years. for untill you get one bit He wont take you to teh next. liek piecing a puzzle together.

If i believed scripture had no place i would not quote it would I, but it does not take precedence over Jesus, nor God, nor teh Holy Spirit, you wither put them first, or the yare last, that is teh only options we have.

 

[mjrhealth]

It actually grieves me to hear you say that. Because you think the forgiveness of God is a license to continue sinning,

You really dont get it do you, as for this nonsense about a license to sin, you sinned before you supposedly became a christian, why would you need a license now. This is the problem you have.

Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

you simply dont believe in what Jesus did at the cross. And again "you" are demanding that men not do, the very same thing you do. sin like teh rest of us. Teh problem is you cant admit to it, because it make you look a hypocrit.

Luk_11:46 And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.

Besides you sound just like a seventh day adventist they preach teh exact same doctrine even teh bit about license to sin, you dont need a license its teh nature of your flesh

 

[KBCid]

Besides you sound just like a seventh day adventist they preach teh exact same doctrine even teh bit about license to sin, you dont need a license its teh nature of your flesh

So lets see.... your message to others is that since sinning is the nature of your flesh then we should just let the flesh keep doing what it wants with no exertion of control by you to keep it from doing that.
Sounds like a hall pass to me.
also sounds exactly like lawlessness unless of course you are ....Bond..... James Bond.... and the Queen has given you a license to do evil.... for the good of the empire of course.

 

[amadeus]

??

See how it works, a man is supposed to go to Christ, and ask, than Jesus knowing where a man is at, will start teaching that man, but He cannot teach any one who is already filled, just as you cant fill a glass of mud with water, you have to empty it first. So than HE starts, one little bit, than when you get that bit He takes you a little further, coudl take a day. or many years. for untill you get one bit He wont take you to teh next. liek piecing a puzzle together.

If i believed scripture had no place i would not quote it would I, but it does not take precedence over Jesus, nor God, nor teh Holy Spirit, you wither put them first, or the yare last, that is teh only options we have.

"When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation." Matt 12:43-45

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I will look up the verses you provided today and study them. Thank you. It may help to have a definition of:

children of disobedience:

Who are the children of disobedience?

 

[bbyrd009]

I will look up the verses you provided today and study them. Thank you. It may help to have a definition of:



Who are the children of disobedience?

ya, doubt anyone will be piling in with any "we" or "us" up in here, lol

 

[KBCid]

I will look up the verses you provided today and study them. Thank you. It may help to have a definition of:
Who are the children of disobedience?

These are those people who submit to the lusts of the body / passions of the flesh. These desires of the body which are defined in various places in the bible have been described as sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness etc. etc.
So if your spirit freely chooses to feed the passions of the body which do not and cannot have a moral compass then you will have to trespass God's moral code to satisfy the bodies desires.
Note that whichever way people choose to go it will be a freewill choice made by them since God gave all men the ability to comprehend morality.



2 Peter 2:10 but chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of defilement, and despise dominion. Daring, self-willed, they tremble not to rail at dignities: 11 whereas angels, though greater in might and power, bring not a railing judgment against them before the Lord. 12 But these, as creatures without reason, born mere animals to be taken and destroyed, railing in matters whereof they are ignorant, shall in their destroying surely be destroyed, 13 suffering wrong as the hire of wrong-doing; men that count it pleasure to revel in the day-time, spots and blemishes, revelling in their deceivings while they feast with you; 14 having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; enticing unstedfast souls; having a heart exercised in covetousness; children of cursing; 15 forsaking the right way, they went astray, having followed the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the hire of wrong-doing; 16 but he was rebuked for his own transgression: a dumb ass spake with man’s voice and stayed the madness of the prophet. 17 These are springs without water, and mists driven by a storm; for whom the blackness of darkness hath been reserved. 18 For, uttering great swelling words of vanity, they entice in the lusts of the flesh, by lasciviousness, those who are just escaping from them that live in error; 19 promising them liberty, while they themselves are bondservants of corruption; for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he also brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein and overcome, the last state is become worse with them than the first. 21 For it were better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after knowing it, to turn back from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 It has happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog turning to his own vomit again, and the sow that had washed to wallowing in the mire.

 

[KBCid]

ya, doubt anyone will be piling in with any "we" or "us" up in here, lol

Seriously... I have not recovered from your last one