"I never knew you: depart from me, you that work inquity."

[bbyrd009]

ya, i'm just a believer myself, i guess

Why else would you argue for Christ except you believe?

anyway the point was that if i had more faith i would prolly be...doing something other than arguing my beliefs online, lol.
("Increase our faith" is not done by comparisons to mustard seeds, even if the keys are in that chapter i guess)

when you get faith, you don't have to argue for Christ any more, as strange as that might sound. I guess because you are like doing Christ instead of talking about Him or something, dunno. i have to brace myself to get...cornered or whatever now, whenever i go to a social function...like i know something or something.

When what it is is that person just caught me in a moment of faith earlier, doing some thing that i likely was not even thinking about or i would have messed it up, and since i don't proselytize they cannot put 2+2 together or whatever, they are quizzing me to hear "Jesus" now, and they aren't gonna, at least until i can make it clear that i am not a church-going Christian.

i'm saying all this because it is much more fulfilling than proselytizing, not to make myself into something i am not, because i do not know any better than anyone else. And this is a pretty new thing for me still, i notice what is happening now is that this person might even bring up Jesus first, a la "what, are you like a Christian or something?" like that.

yikes, you'd think i just got rescued off an uninhabited island or something lol, sry.

 

[bbyrd009]

Indeed. I am curious since you quoted that as to how it speaks to you, for we may be reading it, and yet not seeing / hearing it in the same manner.

how to hold the truth in unrighteousness:

 

[bbyrd009]

Indeed. I am curious, what to you is "unbelief"? Is it merely being such as an atheist? Or is there more to it? In your opinion, can someone think they "believe", yet actually be "unbelieving"?

don't guess this will be much use to most ppl, but dogs only act from faith, and you can even see them refrain from acting if all three are not lined up. Iow faith is not "i really, really believe Jesus is coming," or even "i really really believe there is a God," faith is not even a religious thing at all, it is a bodily condition, involving the intestines even

 

[KBCid]

because i've seen the definition of "believe" change in my lifetime, kelli, from "i think," the way it was used when i was a kid, to a poor analogue of "faith." And "faith" has come to mean "denomination." So while it is just a semantics discussion now, it strikes me as quite pervasive, even translations writing out the words "faith" in many spots...
but see if "faith" means "denomination" how that gets messed up.

You know how God defines faith bb;
Heb 11:1 Faith means being sure of the things we hope for and knowing that something is real even if we do not see it.
6 ....Anyone who comes to God must believe that he is real and that he rewards those who truly want to find him. As Christ came to point out to them it was not by blood or acts of the salvation laws that caused Abram to achieve salvation from God, rather it was his faith in the promises alone that drove his actions while he awaited the culminating of the promises to occur. His was a living faith.

There are no semantics there. Where the line is drawn by God is when your faith is founded on a lie. You can see this in the Jew's error in having faith in the promises of God based on their bloodline and their adherence to the sacrificial laws to guaranteed them a spot on the salvation train.

I believe Jesus died for my sins; yet i am assured that "No Son of Man may die for the sins of another." which i'm getting ahead of myself now, but the point is that you cannot ignore the truth of the 2nd one just because you have embraced the 1st one, imo. If my belief has not caused a change in my faith, which is that part of myself that i (am supposed to) use for decision making, then what good is it?

Let me clarify something for you bb. Christ did was not crucified for the sins of other men. Christ was crucified because he called himself the Son of God. I reiterate "Christ was crucified because he asserted that he was the offspring of the Father who alone cannot die". Thus, your mind can be cleared of this little problem.
Since Christ was killed for a made-up sin by men he gained the right to have the final word on whose sins would be forgiven and we both know that the only ones whose sins will be forgiven will be the few who can make it through the narrow gate and all the rest who will go through the wide gate will die for their own unforgiven sins.

So bb you will die for your very own sins if you do not find the path to the narrow gate but neither you nor any other man including Christ will die for anyone else's sins. The Father is just in all his ways and his first born reflects the Father in all his ways and He was our example that we may attain to being sons of God too.

 

[bbyrd009]

Christ was crucified because he called himself the Son of God.

well, the penalty for that was stoning right, not crucifixion, but nice :)

also i guess Christ never called Himself that directly, it also came from a lack of understanding;
and the two go together, in a weird way

 

[KBCid]

well, the penalty for that was stoning right, not crucifixion, but nice :)
also i guess Christ never called Himself that directly, it also came from a lack of understanding;
and the two go together, in a weird way

Sir might I say to you that 'man shall live by "every" word of the mouth of God.'

Mark 1:61 ...Again the high priest asked him, and saith unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.

 

[KBCid]

oh, that could easily be me, prolly is, i need brothers/witnesses/accusers as much as the next guy. Anyway yes, they also believe. But if you go look there, the word used is actually "faith," they have faith. Took me a while to grasp that one.

I perceive you being on an edge able to tip to one side or another as you war against yourself. This is just a perception and not a knowing.

but you did get that feeling then, right?
So iow you are not deceived, for whatever reason; you have either already been down that hallway, or you are currently prevented from going down that hallway due to some belief; the fact that they fail in discussion (in your opinion) being a biggie i guess. Note that their "error" is truth to them, though, unless you are convinced that they are intentionally lying, which imo is not usually the case. They are usually deceived, right, or at least that is our assessment in the moment.

I do get that feeling every so often and I can't rightly define it in words. I cannot say that I am not deceived in any way since I am not God. I can only say in this respect that something not myself has been guiding me and opening my mind as years have passed and I constantly check these things against scripture as I am supposed to do and I pray that I will not be led astray and lost.
Most people are as you say "their error is truth to them". This is how it works for the majority. The evil spirits exert their influence to incline men to believe a lie and they know that men will die for a belief. What better way to get unpaid helpers ;)
But I have sensed times when there is something acting not from a belief / faith position.
The reality you should always keep in mind IMHO is that there is the narrow gate and the wide gate and if this is true then that means that a majority will choose an error over actual truth. You should also consider what could evil do to make it so that people would willingly follow an error rather than the truth?

Still get those weird fleeting thoughts that you wouldn't even think of acting on? have they gone away?

Of course I do. They will not cease until you either die or get translated from corruptible to incorruptible flesh. Much of our thoughts are triggered by the genetically designed flesh which was designed to help the system to survive. It tells us we are thirsty or hungry or cold etc. but here is where you need to grasp that this same body that gives its demands also gives rewards --- The feeling of being full--- the feeling of comfort in a nice warm bed--- a hot shower ---sex--. all of these feelings we get during existence is designed to make the operator of the temple the systems subject.
Think about it this way we train animals by reward system because it works. They will alter their actions to bring as many benefits to their body as possible. This is their genetic mind in action.
YOU ARE Pavlove's dog. I think you may find this interesting to read about if you have never actually checked before. Pavlove actually made a discovery about conditioning that we all should recognize within ourselves;
"Pavlov found that for associations to be made, the two stimuli had to be presented close together in time. He called this the law of temporal contiguity. If the time between the conditioned stimulus (bell) and unconditioned stimulus (food) is too great, then learning will not occur."
Pavlov’s Dogs | Simply Psychology
Our bodies reward us as quickly as we attend to the desires it brings to our mind...
thus a valid truth here is that "if one can realize why they are the dog then they won't simply be the dog."

 

[KBCid]

anyway the point was that if i had more faith i would prolly be...doing something other than arguing my beliefs online, lol.
("Increase our faith" is not done by comparisons to mustard seeds, even if the keys are in that chapter i guess)
when you get faith, you don't have to argue for Christ any more, as strange as that might sound. I guess because you are like doing Christ instead of talking about Him or something, dunno. i have to brace myself to get...cornered or whatever now, whenever i go to a social function...like i know something or something.

Well were told that with enough faith we could move mountains or heal the sick or simply do righteousness. right?
I would deny your thought of "not needing to argue for Christ" because as you go on to say by intent is that you are becoming like him in your ways. To reflect Christ / the Father in your ways would make you a light within the darkness. You would want to help others find the right way just as the apostles did.

Hmm you feel cornered... could it be like an animal might feel? seriously... this is an actual real question here. I ask this because I had met another person who had a very real and uncomfortable time whenever there was a group in a set proximity to her. She was able to subdue that action once she became aware of how those feelings were controlling her but, and here's a key understanding she learned to train the feelings. After some time maybe a year she seemed to be doing good with groups and seemed to interact without holding back if ya know what I mean.
If I hadn't seen it I would question it and demand empirical evidence but there it was in my face. I had known her for years before the change.... you get the idea here.

i'm saying all this because it is much more fulfilling than proselytizing, not to make myself into something i am not, because i do not know any better than anyone else. And this is a pretty new thing for me still, i notice what is happening now is that this person might even bring up Jesus first, a la "what, are you like a Christian or something?" like that.
yikes, you'd think i just got rescued off an uninhabited island or something lol, sry.

So don't make yourself reflect an image you know your not... Practice reflecting the image of the Father.
I garrrunteee that you could not choose a finer being to be like. Imagine a life where there is no sin... in anyone.... around you. Who would you be like then?
Seek (imagine) ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness...
and you will get gifts to fulfill your needs. It is written. God has given his word... literally.

 

[amadeus]

anyway the point was that if i had more faith i would prolly be...doing something other than arguing my beliefs online, lol.

By faith you would and should be doing God's will for you as a part of the Body of Christ. What part is that? What function is yours? Everybody according to the flesh as I see it wants to be the head, but that job is already taken. Jesus is the only head. This is why we see John the Baptist who was greater than all of those born of women and he had to lose his own head to make room for the Head.

("Increase our faith" is not done by comparisons to mustard seeds, even if the keys are in that chapter i guess)

when you get faith, you don't have to argue for Christ any more, as strange as that might sound. I guess because you are like doing Christ instead of talking about Him or something, dunno. i have to brace myself to get...cornered or whatever now, whenever i go to a social function...like i know something or something.

Right on it my friend. Increasing of our faith pushes us toward the "end of our faith" which is Jesus, which is knowledge rather than simply belief. We no longer have to say "I believe it" because we know it.

When what it is is that person just caught me in a moment of faith earlier, doing some thing that i likely was not even thinking about or i would have messed it up, and since i don't proselytize they cannot put 2+2 together or whatever, they are quizzing me to hear "Jesus" now, and they aren't gonna, at least until i can make it clear that i am not a church-going Christian.

What you do and what you say and what you are is what needs to be on the approach toward the fulfillment of this verse:

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

Some people will look to your church attendance and/or whether or not you speak in unknown tongues, and/or whether you participate in a physical communion ritual and/or whether you talking to every man on the street about Jesus and/or whether you are knocking on doors for that purpose, etc.

As it gets into you and you become it or it becomes you, you won't have to think about being like him or ask yourself "What would Jesus do or say in this situation I am in?" Jesus did not plan his schedule for the day to accomplish God's purpose for him. He simply was what he was. We need to be what God has in mind for us as a part of the Body of Christ, even though we may not know exactly what that is yet.

i'm saying all this because it is much more fulfilling than proselytizing, not to make myself into something i am not, because i do not know any better than anyone else. And this is a pretty new thing for me still, i notice what is happening now is that this person might even bring up Jesus first, a la "what, are you like a Christian or something?" like that.

yikes, you'd think i just got rescued off an uninhabited island or something lol, sry.

All of us were on uninhabited islands before we met the Lord and we were uninhabitable. Jesus needs a place to lay his head and that place will be within the people who are ready to receive him in that way. This is what Zion is really all about if we can understand it:

As a man of flesh Jesus said this:
Mat 8:20 And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

But long before Jesus was born to Mary in Bethlehem, David wrote these words in answer to Jesus's need:

"I will not give sleep to mine eyes, or slumber to mine eyelids,
Until I find out a place for the LORD, an habitation for the mighty God of Jacob." Psalm 132:4-5

"For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.
This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it." Psalm 132:13-14

Solomon also wrote about it here:

"Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men." Prov 8:31

You and I, little bits of earth are being made habitable by eating his flesh and drinking his blood. He cannot rest his head in a a place of death.

 

[bbyrd009]

nice, A :)

Sir might I say to you that 'man shall live by "every" word of the mouth of God.'

Mark 1:61 ...Again the high priest asked him, and saith unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.

yes, i agree that He admitted it, tacitly verified among the Apostles, too, but that does not negate the point that He did not go around calling Himself Son of God.

 

[bbyrd009]

I perceive you being on an edge able to tip to one side or another as you war against yourself. This is just a perception and not a knowing.

well, i seem to be easily misunderstood a lot too, so i dunno. I guess it would require someone else to answer anyway. It's possible a lot of that might also be coming from my pov in writing, i have no problem exploring in this venue, usually try to make that clear. I do not know, not a single thing, for a final answer, where God is concerned. So that kind of frees me up in a way that freezes other people sometimes i guess.

i certainly don't try to deceive, but neither do i pretend that i am some oracle of truth, either.

 

[bbyrd009]

They will not cease until you either die or get translated from corruptible to incorruptible flesh.

hmm, this raises some interesting questions about free will, seems to me, i don't foresee our free will ever being abrogated in the manner that "cease" intimates, or else we are then a kind of robot imo. Seems to me that you are incorruptible when you stop entertaining those fleeting thoughts, aren't you?

 

[bbyrd009]

I would deny your thought of "not needing to argue for Christ" because as you go on to say by intent is that you are becoming like him in your ways.

i meant to look at the diff in talking about Jesus v manifesting Christ, and the common thing we see where those who know the least assure us that they are the most correct, about things that no one knows or can know; those same ppl who will fight to the death for a belief they cannot verify, yet would never lay down their lives for their friends

 

[bbyrd009]

Hmm you feel cornered... could it be like an animal might feel? seriously... this is an actual real question here. I ask this because I had met another person who had a very real and uncomfortable time whenever there was a group in a set proximity to her. She was able to subdue that action once she became aware of how those feelings were controlling her but, and here's a key understanding she learned to train the feelings. After some time maybe a year she seemed to be doing good with groups and seemed to interact without holding back if ya know what I mean.
If I hadn't seen it I would question it and demand empirical evidence but there it was in my face. I had known her for years before the change.... you get the idea here.

hmm, not entirely sure i do, there are many shades of this, and you seem to be indicating someone who is self-conscious? My meaning @ "i feel cornered" is that...i find that sometimes i have become popular, lol. Um...i tell someone to call me Mark, and they are obviously not comfortable just calling me Mark? So maybe then i get self conscious, lol, ya, but i didn't walk in that way

 

[bbyrd009]

I would deny your thought of "not needing to argue for Christ" because as you go on to say by intent is that you are becoming like him in your ways.

yes, i agree there, i just have found that it is not a bad idea to question where i currently am about once a week or so, just to examine whether or not i am resisting God in some move.

 

[KBCid]

hmm, this raises some interesting questions about free will, seems to me, i don't foresee our free will ever being abrogated in the manner that "cease" intimates, or else we are then a kind of robot imo. Seems to me that you are incorruptible when you stop entertaining those fleeting thoughts, aren't you?

No your free will is always going to remain as you cannot reflect the image of God if you were an automaton. Now when I assert that the fleshly mind will cease it is simply that you will no longer be tempted from within. You as the operator of the mobile dirt temple remain the same.
I would tentatively agree that at the point where you are no longer tempted from within that the body will have either died or been translated.

One more thing I think is worthy of mention on the temptation point here is the thing about satan being bound during the millennial reign of Christ..... did you notice that satan was to be loosed at the end to test the people existing during that period;

Rev 20:1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

I have always wondered if the genetic mind will continue with those who will not die when Christ comes but continue to exist under his rule.... Just a curious thing I have no answer for as yet but, as a guess I would think that the fleshly DNA mind would continue to exist during that time.

 

[KBCid]

hmm, not entirely sure i do, there are many shades of this, and you seem to be indicating someone who is self-conscious? My meaning @ "i feel cornered" is that...i find that sometimes i have become popular, lol. Um...i tell someone to call me Mark, and they are obviously not comfortable just calling me Mark? So maybe then i get self conscious, lol, ya, but i didn't walk in that way

eh it was just a thought with the intent to help if possible. If your popular maybe you have the right pheromones ;).

 

[bbyrd009]

the thing about satan being bound during the millennial reign of Christ..... did you notice that satan was to be loosed at the end to test the people existing during that period;

yes, but i no longer read that as a future history of mankind in general; to me it is much more personal. So better to not comment there i guess.

 

[bbyrd009]

eh it was just a thought with the intent to help if possible. If your popular maybe you have the right pheromones ;).

ha, maybe lol. Never had them before though.

 

[amadeus]

well, i seem to be easily misunderstood a lot too, so i dunno. I guess it would require someone else to answer anyway. It's possible a lot of that might also be coming from my pov in writing, i have no problem exploring in this venue, usually try to make that clear. I do not know, not a single thing, for a final answer, where God is concerned. So that kind of frees me up in a way that freezes other people sometimes i guess.

i certainly don't try to deceive, but neither do i pretend that i am some oracle of truth, either.

I certainly understand this point of view of oneself.

Some mornings I get utterly miserable because there is little I know and so much I do not know.

Then... yes, then, sometimes I get into my reading and praying... and then God opens some of those closed doors. I may immediately come to this forum or to other where I visit to find some kindred folk. Sometimes I will get into some of my world duties, but God is always there... even when I cannot feel a thing.

"For his anger endureth but a moment; in his favour is life: weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning." Psalm 30:5