"I am come to send fire on the earth" ?

[VictoryinJesus]

Luke 12:49-50 KJV
[49] I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? [50] But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

What baptism in Jesus speaking of here? "till it be accomplished!"


Is this before or after:
Mark 1:8-12 KJV
[8] I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. [9] And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. [10] And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: [11] And there came a voice from heaven, saying , Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. [12] And immediately the Spirit driveth him into the wilderness.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Hebrews 12:26-27 KJV
[26] Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. [27] And this word , Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

The earth shaken: by water

Job 38:12-13 KJV
[12] Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place; [13] That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

The Earth and Heaven shaken: by fire

Matthew 24:29-30 KJV
[29] Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Luke 21:26-27 KJV
[26] Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. [27] And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.


...Hebrews 12:28-29

Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

For our God is a consuming fire.

 

[bbyrd009]

What baptism in Jesus speaking of here? "till it be accomplished!"

imo what is really going on there is Christ pointing out that baptisms occur IRL, not in church settings, not rituals iow

 

[VictoryinJesus]

imo what is really going on there is Christ pointing out that baptisms occur IRL, not in church settings, not rituals iow

Was He referring to the baptism of the Holy Ghost after His resurrection? Is it after "pick up your cross of follow me" and not before the "pick up your cross and follow me" that baptism comes? Does that make sense...because I don't know.

 

[bbyrd009]

Was He referring to the baptism of the Holy Ghost after His resurrection? Is it after "pick up your cross of follow me" and not before the "pick up your cross and follow me" that baptism comes? Does that make sense...because I don't know.

well, me neither, but you gotta believe that the "baptism" Christ referred to there was crucifixion, imo. And Christ embodied the Holy Spirit, i think, making crucifixion more like the baptism of fire, prolly

 

[amadeus]

Without the baptism of the Holy Ghost, meaning in particular the power received therewith, how could we survive the baptism with which His disciples are to be baptized?

"But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father." Matt 20:22-23

The three Hebrews in Daniel chapter three went into the fire and came out of the fire unharmed. That was a type or shadow of Jesus being crucified and being resurrected. They had to be purified by having the binding ropes burned off of them. Jesus had to be completed having the veil of flesh with it's ways of temptation killed.

The Holy Ghost will empower us to go through the fire that will cleanse of of impurities and make us complete. The "earth" is not planet Earth, the globe on which men dwell, but the earth in which believers are contained. This flesh of ours and its ways are corruptible and corrupted. The Holy Ghost is the quickening Spirit of Fire [the Consuming Fire] which will trim us [cut or burn off the ropes] and bring to Life the Word in us so that we will never die, but the old man with his ways must die.

 

[Richard_oti]

Luke 12:49-50 KJV
[49] I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? [50] But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

What baptism in Jesus speaking of here? "till it be accomplished!"

you gotta believe that the "baptism" Christ referred to there was crucifixion, imo.

IMO: The death, "descending" to spirits in prison, and the resurrection.

Rom 6:4 We were buried therefore with him through baptism unto death: that like as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life.

 

[Stranger]

Luke 12:49-50 KJV
[49] I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? [50] But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

What baptism in Jesus speaking of here? "till it be accomplished!"


Is this before or after:
Mark 1:8-12 KJV
[8] I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. [9] And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. [10] And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: [11] And there came a voice from heaven, saying , Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. [12] And immediately the Spirit driveth him into the wilderness.

This baptism is not the water baptism of Jesus, nor is it the baptism of the Holy Spirit. This baptism speaks to His upcoming death on the cross. See (Matt. 20:18). "...the Son of man shall be betrayed...and they shall condemn him to death." Also, (Matt. 20:22-23) "...Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?...Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with:..."

When Jesus says "I am come to send fire on the earth" (Luke 12:49), He is not emphasizing the unifying work of the Holy Spirit upon believers. He is emphasizing the dividing work that His death will cause between all men on the earth. (Luke 12:51) "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:" Jesus Christ most definitely came to bring peace upon the earth. (Luke 2:14) But it will be peace on God's terms, on Jesus Christ's terms. Not the world's. At the present time, Jesus Christ is dividing in the world. (Luke 12:51-53)

The secular world loves to speak of peace. But that is a pseudo peace, a false peace both politically and religiously. The political peace is based on the 'goodness' of man. And the religious peace is based on acceptance of all ways to come to God. This religious peace must remove the dividing work of God through Jesus Christ. How? It creates a pseudo Christ. A lovey dovey Christ. A denial of the blood sacrifice that is required to bring peace between God and man. For, they say, a loving God would not do that.

The world loves to speak of peace. And we who are believers will say yes, and peace is only found in Jesus Christ who died on the cross. Then the world balks. It cannot accept that. Speak of Jesus as a Gahndi type, or like a long haired hippie skipping through the fields loving peace and nature and all that is wholesome, and the world will allow it. But identify with the crucified Christ on the cross, and the division is immediate.

That is the baptism of Jesus Christ here. And it weighed heavily upon Him. And we who are believers must identify with that Jesus Christ and not fear when He divides. For He will divide.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

Rom 6:4 We were buried therefore with him through baptism unto death

nice; now i suggest that our def of "baptism" here is not the same as what Scripture means at this v; not the ritual, iow, by which i do not mean to denigrate the ritual per se.

 

[bbyrd009]

The world loves to speak of peace.

really? i see war on every channel, hmm. Seems to me that it is believers who like to pretend peace

And we who are believers will say yes, and peace is only found in Jesus Christ who died on the cross.

"I came not to bring peace, but a sword."

so i wonder if i could somehow maybe get you all "we's" to please stop lol

Then the world balks. It cannot accept that.

if you stopped being the world's largest arms dealers, it might help? lol

Speak of Jesus as a Gahndi type, or like a long haired hippie skipping through the fields loving peace and nature and all that is wholesome, and the world will allow it.

if only you "we's" would, huh? No offense; but after all, you IDed there, i didn't

But identify with the crucified Christ on the cross, and the division is immediate.

ah well, this might be the problem; Christ is not on the cross any more. Imo the division comes when believers are perceived to be hypocrites, not when actually dying to self is illuminated; and certainly not when it is actually pursued? At least that is my observation from experience.

See, Christ people like just fine; it is Christians ppl have issues with, right

 

[bbyrd009]

And we who are believers will say yes, and peace is only found in Jesus Christ

And we who are believers must identify with that Jesus Christ and not fear when He divides. For He will divide.

ah, Peace in Division. Isn't it wonderful?

lol, sorry, no offense meant here, ok

 

[bbyrd009]

and don't get me wrong, i do see ppl holding guns who talk about peace alla time, yes

 

[Richard_oti]

nice; now i suggest that our def of "baptism" here is not the same as what Scripture means at this v; not the ritual, iow, by which i do not mean to denigrate the ritual per se.

Who is "our"? Here we are nearly two millennia later, and it is still highly debated with no consensus.

 

[bbyrd009]

Who is "our"? Here we are nearly two millennia later, and it is still highly debated with no consensus.

amen. "Our" ends up being a game of keep-away from "their," a way to elevate self.

 

[Helen]

Who is "our"? Here we are nearly two millennia later, and it is still highly debated with no consensus.

Agree.
I just wanted to mention here that I wrote you an INBOX message...hoping that you'd answer...maybe you didn't notice it..
Anyway...blessings upon your head and house. :)

 

[Richard_oti]

amen. "Our" ends up being a game of keep-away from "their," a way to elevate self.

Indubitably.

 

[Richard_oti]

Agree.
I just wanted to mention here that I wrote you an INBOX message...hoping that you'd answer...maybe you didn't notice it..
Anyway...blessings upon your head and house. :)

Read and replied, thank you. I usually read the majority of the forum before I start my replies.

A blessing upon your head and house also.

 

[DPMartin]

Was He referring to the baptism of the Holy Ghost after His resurrection? Is it after "pick up your cross of follow me" and not before the "pick up your cross and follow me" that baptism comes? Does that make sense...because I don't know.

the official baptism of the Holy Spirit starts with Pentecost "born again", but the Lord God has allowed many in the OT to experience the Presence of His Spirit. thing is it didn't seem a permanent thing, like the many during Moses' day that went through the camps and prophesied to King David's experience with the Lord his God's Presence with him, not to mention the many prophets. even when the Lord Jesus gave the apostles powers to heal and cast out devils they weren't baptized with the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit until Pentecost.

in our case the Spirit is the seal unto our salvation but before Pentecost it was a come and go thing. not necessarily a permanent indwelling but that's not to say the Lord didn't dwell with some of His servants on a permanent basis before Pentecost. the Lord God is allowed to do whatever pleases Him.

the whole history of Israel and the Lord their God is all around God's Presence with His People then Israel. He dwelled with them in the desert in the land of Israel. cast them out His Presence more then once and restored them to the land more than once.

there are no rules on God's Presence within His creation, but there are rules on what can be, or remain in His Presence.

 

[bbyrd009]

there are no rules on God's Presence within His creation, but there are rules on what can be, or remain in His Presence.

don't these two contradict each other?

 

[ScottA]

Luke 12:49-50 KJV
[49] I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? [50] But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

What baptism in Jesus speaking of here? "till it be accomplished!"


Is this before or after:
Mark 1:8-12 KJV
[8] I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. [9] And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. [10] And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: [11] And there came a voice from heaven, saying , Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. [12] And immediately the Spirit driveth him into the wilderness.

Indeed, the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and with holy fire, which is the judgement.