Is it scriptural to instruct angels?

[bbyrd009]

Early on in our walk with God He overlooks our ignorance and lets us get away with many things, but eventually we need to get past those things. David did have too many wives. What do we have that interferes with our ability to move closer to God? We do not even know the complete answer to the question, much less are we able to do it... by ourselves.

i agree there, but there is always accompanying fruit, even if we are often experts at obscuring it, disseminating, or misdirecting, i guess there is a whole list of ways ppl might refuse to acknowledge some certain fruit, but then they don't realize that if they are not walking in conviction, they will contradict themselves.

and of course God help you if you point that out, too, usually.

 

[bbyrd009]

is it better to just nod one's head and agree with whatever comes out of someone else's mouth?

even in a forum?

 

[amadeus]

is it better to just nod one's head and agree with whatever comes out of someone else's mouth?

even in a forum?

If you don't mind the attacks, then just go ahead and open your mouth too. Right, wrong or indifferent someone is almost certain to disagree and some will complain. But...

Give God the glory!

 

[Miss Hepburn]

I have not read the whole thread...I don' know about these preachers...I just know that I don' need to instruct angels cuz they are my brothers serving our Dad.
They remind me of appts or which direction to turn...they are doing whatever our Dad told them to do.
They aren't my paid servants or anything.

 

[Helen]

What did God mean by these words?
"Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?
Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me." Isaiah 45:10-11

I recall once many years ago a visiting preacher spoke on Isaiah 45:11 indicating that it mean we are to command God to do things. I was young in the Lord and that preacher did not clarify the problems involved in you or me telling God what to do.

If we read the verses immediately prior to those cited we see that God is explaining something about His own role in things. He is the helper. He is the Creator. He is the Leader. He is the gift giver. He is the One who called Jacob. He set up the whole thing and he lets us know that questioning the Way of the Creator is not an advisable activity for the creation. But then with that background He says "concerning the work of my hands command ye me".

John's written words may help us to understand what God wants of us:

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

So then how should we command God [or His angels or messengers]?
As God would command Himself or them. As we become like Him, then our thoughts and ways should be becoming like His Way. When we are really in the Spirit or in Christ and He is in us, should we not do what God would do?

Has any man ever correctly rebuked a devil? Has any man ever correctly called the fire of God down from heaven? Has any man ever done those things wrong?

Thanks for your post.
As you say..we must or should always be led by The Holy Spirit. Therefore if we have the 'hearing ear' that God tells us to have...then anything we ask of Him has been first conveyed to us by His Holy Teacher.

But that being said. I too hear a preach declaring that we are to command God. ( He never mentioned the 'hearing ear'.)
Not wanting to 'be a Mike' here, but I have actually never ever had the 'inner witness' that we are being told in this scripture to command God.
I believe it should all be a question! Just as we saw it was in Job.

Your quote with my colouring :- "Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?
Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask Me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye Me!? " Isaiah 45:10-11

I personally have always believed it to be a exclamation question. As in Job
38 "Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or Who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or Who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8 Or Who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?"....etc etc...

I do not believe anything had changed between the times of Job and the times of Isaiah!!

 

[amadeus]

Thanks for your post.
As you say..we must or should always be led by The Holy Spirit. Therefore if we have the 'hearing ear' that God tells us to have...then anything we ask of Him has been first conveyed to us by His Holy Teacher.

But that being said. I too hear a preach declaring that we are to command God. ( He never mentioned the 'hearing ear'.)
Not wanting to 'be a Mike' here, but I have actually never ever had the 'inner witness' that we are being told in this scripture to command God.
I believe it should all be a question! Just as we saw it was in Job.

Your quote with my colouring :- "Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?
Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask Me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye Me!? " Isaiah 45:10-11

I personally have always believed it to be a exclamation question. As in Job
38 "Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or Who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or Who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8 Or Who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?"....etc etc...

I do not believe anything had changed between the times of Job and the times of Isaiah!!

Yes, the exclamatory question was my own reaction to the words, "command ye me", but we are not Job or Isaiah and the or desire for us need to call upon God according to His Word as it in us is another thing. Often people will misuse scriptures and rebuke or command in opposition to God's will thus trying to bringing their own will to the fore. Our will is only good when it is equal to God's will. This is part of where we need to grow to make it so. This was really my point. Let us make it so! Sorry if it got more complicated.

"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven" Ecc 3:1
Time belongs to God. He had given us the use of it [and other things] as stewards and is giving us an opportunity to use it right... or not.

 

[Marymog]

I often hear preachers commanding angels to do this and that, but it just doesn't sit well with my spirit. They invariably quote Hebrews 1:14 "Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?"

However, I don't see any other reference to instructing angels in the New Testament.

Surely, the angels are a mechanism that God uses to help, guide and sometimes delivery us, thank you Jesus. But isn't the way that God helps us up to him? I don't see that the scripture in Hebrews 1:14 is strong enough for us to start ordering angels around?

What's your opinion?

The help of angels is always portrayed as an act of God and not man i.e. Numbers 20:16; Daniel 3:28, 6:23 and Acts 12:11.

My conclusion: God sends angels to help men; men don't send or command angels to help ourselves.

Mary

 

[bbyrd009]

"command ye me"

bad translation imo

 

[Helen]

The help of angels is always portrayed as an act of God and not man i.e. Numbers 20:16; Daniel 3:28, 6:23 and Acts 12:11.

My conclusion: God sends angels to help men; men don't send or command angels to help ourselves.

Mary

Amen, well said :)

 

[amadeus]

bad translation imo

Well it's always bad if the reader doesn't understand or worse misunderstands.

 

[bbyrd009]

Well it's always bad if the reader doesn't understand or worse misunderstands.

ha well pls, that tranny is KJV, and every other one gives a better sense of what was meant? That one is basically misleading, seems to me.
Isaiah 45:11 "This is what the LORD says-- the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker: Concerning things to come, do you question me about my children, or give me orders about the work of my hands?
do you question me about my children, or give me orders about the work of my hands?
will you command me concerning my children and the work of my hands?
Or give me orders about the work of my hands?
Are you going to give me orders concerning my handiwork?

 

[amadeus]

ha well pls, that tranny is KJV, and every other one gives a better sense of what was meant? That one is basically misleading, seems to me.
Isaiah 45:11 "This is what the LORD says-- the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker: Concerning things to come, do you question me about my children, or give me orders about the work of my hands?
do you question me about my children, or give me orders about the work of my hands?
will you command me concerning my children and the work of my hands?
Or give me orders about the work of my hands?
Are you going to give me orders concerning my handiwork?

This my friend is why it is so important to be in touch with God... all of the time [I know this is for some or many an impossibility.] He certainly understands any message He has for any of us. So then we need to be really be hearing His voice. The best translation of scripture will not save us and the worst translation won't lose us in and of itself. If we are always on God's side, He will provide the needed understanding. If we are not on His side, He will not! As I see it probably most believers are a mixture of these two positions. Some will claim to always be on the Lord's side.

 

[bbyrd009]

This my friend is why it is so important to be in touch with God... all of the time [I know this is for some or many an impossibility.] He certainly understands any message He has for any of us. So then we need to be really be hearing His voice. The best translation of scripture will not save us and the worst translation won't lose us in and of itself. If we are always on God's side, He will provide the needed understanding. If we are not on His side, He will not! As I see it probably most believers are a mixture of these two positions. Some will claim to always be on the Lord's side.

ha well i don't claim that, but i do claim that a bad tranny can only lead one astray, seems to me. Might just be me, the way i am understanding the KJV there, but it certainly does not give the same sense of that phrase the way most other translations do, does it?

King James Bible
Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.

what i read here is that Christ is commanding us to command God or something? Or at least def not the sense i get with any other Tranny,

New Heart English Bible
Thus says the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker: "You ask me about the things that are to come, concerning my sons, and you command me concerning the work of my hands.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
The LORD is the Holy One and the maker of Israel. This is what the LORD says: Ask me about what is going to happen to my children! Are you going to give me orders concerning my handiwork?

or even the NASB,
New American Standard Bible
Thus says the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker: "Ask Me about the things to come concerning My sons, And you shall commit to Me the work of My hands.

which btw i have no idea how this v should be interpreted, i haven't even read it from the Lex yet--bc i would be here the rest of the day prolly lol--but that isn't the point right now even. Doesn't the KJV give basically the opposite sense of the others?

 

[bbyrd009]

This my friend is why it is so important to be in touch with God

aren't we supposed to be able to rely on the Book to verify how in touch we are? Can't ppl now claim to be more in touch with God, because they understand that they are to command God, and "here is our verification for that?"

 

[amadeus]

ha well i don't claim that, but i do claim that a bad tranny can only lead one astray, seems to me. Might just be me, the way i am understanding the KJV there, but it certainly does not give the same sense of that phrase the way most other translations do, does it?

King James Bible
Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.

what i read here is that Christ is commanding us to command God or something? Or at least def not the sense i get with any other Tranny,

New Heart English Bible
Thus says the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker: "You ask me about the things that are to come, concerning my sons, and you command me concerning the work of my hands.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
The LORD is the Holy One and the maker of Israel. This is what the LORD says: Ask me about what is going to happen to my children! Are you going to give me orders concerning my handiwork?

or even the NASB,
New American Standard Bible
Thus says the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker: "Ask Me about the things to come concerning My sons, And you shall commit to Me the work of My hands.

which btw i have no idea how this v should be interpreted, i haven't even read it from the Lex yet--bc i would be here the rest of the day prolly lol--but that isn't the point right now even. Doesn't the KJV give basically the opposite sense of the others?

My understanding of the KJV now is not I believe in error, but without a doubt when I first heard a teaching from that verse it was wrong and I took it in then although with misgivings. My German and Spanish versions of that verse clarify it very much. But... I started reading the KJV in 1976. I did not receive my first Luther and Reina Valera Bibles until 1978 and did not immediately begin to read them regularly. My German especially was very rusty and it took a long time for me begin to read Luther with real understanding without continuous referrals to the English. I am certain that when I heard that sermon or teaching on that verse, I had no great familiarity with the scripture at all.

A young person in the Lord may well be led astray by a preacher, a teacher or a written version of scripture, but again if that young person is really hungry and thirsty for the righteousness of God I believe that He will fill him properly. Following a man in a church group can and does get people into trouble... even though they may get some "good" out of it eventually.