The Elect

[VictoryinJesus]

again victoryinjesus

you suit your own pleasers with bible scripture to justify your said belief.

elect means and this is the OED and this would be the definitions used by the translators:

1. trans. To pick out, choose (usually, for a particular purpose or function). Also absol. Obs. in general sense.
To make deliberate choice of (a course of action, an opinion, etc.) in preference to an alternative.
To choose (a person) by vote for appointment to an office or position of any kind. Used in three different constructions: to elect (a person) to (an office, etc.); to elect (an officer, etc.); and with complement, as ‘they elected him their chief’.

1. Picked out, chosen; also, chosen for excellence or by preference; select, choice. Also absol. a person or persons chosen.
in Theol. Chosen by God, esp. for salvation or eternal life. Opposed to reprobate. Often absol. with plural sense, the elect.
Chosen to an office or dignity. Now usually, Chosen, elected, but not installed in office (in this sense almost always following the n.). Similarly, in mod. use, bride, bridegroom elect, said of betrothed persons


and again extracting text for your own pleasure bringing your idol of what a god ought to be for public acceptance.

Okay, I value your input; please explain how I used scripture to justify my belief? Because I don't want to do that. That is one reason I come here; to challenge what I believe to be truth so I don't do exactly what you blame me of doing...which is forcing scripture to support my cause. I want that out of me.

I never intended to imply there is no "elect" only that God blinded those that HAD bowed to other Idols; which were not the elect. For me, this says a lot about Jesus Christ coming to open the eyes of the blind...including those Jews that were blinded. Also, it seems we should be careful in assuming someone is not "chosen" because what scripture seems to say is...It is possible for all.

Who did God blind?
Are all Jews the "elect"?
What do you say?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

and again extracting text for your own pleasure bringing your idol of what a god ought to be for public acceptance.

Then tell me what my idol is?
Correct me...

 

[amadeus]

seems like that would be hard to square with "ON earth as it is in heaven."

A difference of one little preposition:

Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done IN earth, as it is in heaven.

Does the scripture clearly distinguish between being IN and being ON? The way I read it is God's will needs to be done IN me, the fleshly temple of Amadeus containing the new man. This is the bit of earth of which I consist according to Gen 2:7 and Ecc 3:20. The globe called planet Earth will not have a transformation in it or on it. The transformation, if there is one, will be IN you or me.

 

[Taken]

And then even before he went to the cross, Jesus was no longer IN the world:

"And now I am no more IN the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." John 17:11

Even though Jesus was still on planet Earth he was no longer IN the world of the temptations of his own flesh. I believe he had already overcome that world in Gethsemene when he finished the third prayer there:

"And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." Matt 26:39

Correct.

Jesus was never OF this earthly world.
Jesus was never OF the heavenly world.

He was Not created or made.

The Word of God came forth out from God; and Created the WorldS.

Mankind was created OUT OF, the habitat created for mankind to exist in his NATURALLY created being.....IN, ON, OF, the earth, in this world.

Mankind became corrupt, and because mankind was created to reproduce from it's seed, all mankind so born is corrupt, from corrupt seeds.

The World created for mankind has become corrupt.

God has a well known RESTORATION plan.
For a man, it begins on the inside.
Forgiveness, Restoration of the soul, a new heart, a new born again spirit.....
ALL effected BY God, and Permanent.

It matters not if the Natural flesh is still walking about ON the Earth; He is no longer OF this World. He is already accounted to be OF God.

Gods restoration plan for the outside of a man, is already accomplished, yet not manifested for an earthly man to SEE.

Gods restoration plan for the restoration of the WorldS, is already accomplished, yet not manifested for an earthly man to SEE.

And Yes, the World of God, has been coming to THIS World since it's beginning; teaching mankind HOW TO become OF God.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

The globe called planet Earth will not have a transformation in it or on it. The transformation, if there is one, will be IN you or me.

well, not sure how you might square that with "a new earth" manifesting as the world passes away?

 

[Taken]

A difference of one little preposition:

Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done IN earth, as it is in heaven.

Does the scripture clearly distinguish between being IN and being ON? I way I read it is God's will needs to be done IN me, the fleshly temple of Amadeus containing the new man. This is the bit of earth of which I consist according to Gen 2:7 and Ecc 3:20. The globe called planet Earth will not have a transformation in it or on it. The transformation, if there is one, will be IN you or me.

IN the earth, is DEATH, which inanutshell IS;
Separation from God.

Many IN the earth, are separated from God.

Many ON the earth, are separated from God.

Many OF the earth, are separated from God.

Physically dead bodies; in graves.
Some Fallen heavenly spirits; in hell.
Living souls of men who rejected God; in hell.
Alive men who reject God; on earth.
Some Fallen heavenly spirits; on earth.

Pertaining to THIS World..

All OF the Earth
and
All ON the Earth
and
All IN the Earth

SHALL WORSHIP God.

We wait for the manifestation thereof.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

ONCE a man is "OF" God; it matters not if he is physically alive, walking in this world, walking on the earth, bodily dead in the grave, (or as living souls once were with Abraham in hell).....or now living souls of dead bodies in heaven.....

ONCE a man is "OF" God; it is permanent.
His soul is permanently restored and saved.
His spirit is permanently quickened.

Death - ie Separation from God; can not ever be affected upon such mans "soul or spirit".

Such mans "soul and spirit" is ALIVE forever more, WITH God.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

no picking up of one's cross nor changing of one's mind even necessary; i guess millions of Christians will be relieved anyway lol

 

[Taken]

no picking up of one's cross nor changing of one's mind even necessary; i guess millions of Christians will be relieved anyway lol

You obviously missed the point.

All men naturally being their INDIVIDUAL beginning AGAINST God.

That is OBVIOUSLY not being "OF" God.

One can REMAIN Against God.
Or one can CHANGE and become OF God.

Picking out concepts that apply to one who is become OF God, and implying it doesn't apply is your obvious lack of understanding.

 

[bbyrd009]

well imo it is at least fair to suggest, as "commending yourselves to each other" does

 

[amadeus]

well, not sure how you might square that with "a new earth" manifesting as the world passes away?

I would not be concerned about planet Earth at all. I don't have to "square" anything. I only have to follow Him. Will He not lead me if I am trusting in Him? As our own personal world of temptations is overcome by the Holy Spirit of God something new is growing, or is should be growing, within...

I don't have all of the answers to your questions. LOL, I don't even have all of the answers to any questions of my own. But, in both cases, God does. So then should we not be coming to Him by or with faith and receiving an appropriate blessing [or cursing]?

"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." Heb 11:6

And what is this faith? You already know:

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Heb 11:1

What is it that we are hoping for? What is it that we see within that hope? We do have a vision as we must...

"Where there is no vision, the people perish:... " Prov 29:18

But then...

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

I suppose that along with Paul as he wrote that verse, my vision is still somewhat "darkly", but is not the "face to face" coming?

 

[Davy]

Okay, I value your input; please explain how I used scripture to justify my belief? Because I don't want to do that. That is one reason I come here; to challenge what I believe to be truth so I don't do exactly what you blame me of doing...which is forcing scripture to support my cause. I want that out of me.

I never intended to imply there is no "elect" only that God blinded those that HAD bowed to other Idols; which were not the elect. For me, this says a lot about Jesus Christ coming to open the eyes of the blind...including those Jews that were blinded. Also, it seems we should be careful in assuming someone is not "chosen" because what scripture seems to say is...It is possible for all.

Who did God blind?
Are all Jews the "elect"?
What do you say?

All believers on The Father through His Son Jesus Christ are counted as elect, but are all apostles like Apostle Paul said? No. The Greek meaning for the word apostle means a 'sent' one. Someone whom Christ sent into this world to serve Him, like His twelve Apostles.

It appears some are confused on what it means to be a chosen sent one, an apostle.

Could there be dormant apostles, sent ones whose time for service has not yet come, and whom might be following something else? Yes, as Apostle Paul was a prime example of that.

 

[n2thelight]

The elect were chosen before the foundation of the world.The question should be why?

Ephesians 1:4 "According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:"

What does it mean to be "chosen"?

It means that there are certain people that God chosen in the first earth age, to do a task for Him in this flesh earth age. This is not reincarnation, for it is appointed for each of us to go through this earth age, the flesh earth age, once and only once. We read; "...It is appointed unto men once to die [in the flesh], but after this the judgment." Hebrews 9:27 This appointing and choosing took place before the foundation of this earth age; the second earth age [cosmos] that we now live in.

"Without blame" refers to the fact that God intercedes in certain peoples lives. Certain people have free will, while certain others are of God's election, however, God doesn't play favorites. Christ died for the sins of all who will repent; the chosen, and the free-will. All must repent for sins they commit, and love the Lord Jesus Christ, to have the hope of His glory.

"Before the foundation of the world", [cosmos in the Greek, meaning world or earth age.] The "foundation" in the Greek text, is the verb for, "the overthrow". This refers to something that happened in that first earth age, before the overthrow of Satan and his angels that followed him. When Satan fell [war against God], one third of all angelic beings [God's children] followed Satan. Then during that war, there were some who fought against Satan, and those who did, God calls "His Chosen". They took a stand, and were overcomers in that first earth age.

Have you ever wondered why you do the things that you do, at times. It's just like you have a destiny. You have always felt their is more to life, and this world, then what you have been taught. Paul addresses this in Romans 8:27. In verse twenty six it says that there are times in your life when the Holy Spirit makes intercession for you because you don't even know what to pray for.

"And he that searcheth the heart knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God." Romans 8:27 These saints are "the set-aside ones", or "the chosen". God has a overall plan, and a purpose in that plan just for you. That purpose is to bring back His children to Him; after that overthrow, and in this earth age.

Why would God intercede in a person's life, without them even asking? When your free-will goes against God's purpose for your life, God will intercede. When Paul's "free will" was to destroy all Christians, God's will was to take this highly educated man, and use Paul as the instrument for Him. Paul used to same drive to destroy Christians, that he used later to convert people, after his conversion.

We read that the Lord said; "...For He is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and Kings, and children of Israel:" Acts 9:15

Ephesians 1:5 "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,"

"Predestined" means "from a prior time", or "required to do a certain thing" in the Greek text. You have a choice of loving God, or loving Satan. God will not interfere with your free will choice to chose Him or Satan. However, that person that proved himself during the overthrow of Satan, were "justified", or earned the right to be called "saints", from that first earth age.

Each soul comes from God, and enters an embryo at conception. This is why Jeremiah was a chosen one. "Before I formed thee in the belly I know thee; and before thou comest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet of nations." Jeremiah 1:5

"Sanctified" thee, is to "set aside, or apart for a purpose". Sins still have to be repented, and the price to pay for them still had to be made. To the predestined, and fore chosen, God can make life so miserable to those out of His will that they will repent. God has a perfect will, and God is always fair.

"And we know that all things work together for good, to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose." Romans 8:28 This verse is directed to a certain people, with a condition attached. This applies to "them who are called according to His purpose." "His purpose" is called God's plan, and God's overall plan is the offering of Salvation to all. That plan includes the teaching of God's Word; to plant seeds to convict; to live our life for Him; and to go and speak where God leads you. God will use you as it pleases Him.

"For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren." Romans 8:29 God knew you, and what you were in that first earth age; and then [in that first earth age] God prearranged our destiny for this age. That destiny is to make us conform, or be like His Son, Jesus Christ. Though Jesus is the first fruits to overcome death, there are many that have that victory over death, through Christ's death and resurrection.

"Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called: He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified." Romans 8:30 "Justified" means "judged" in the Greek text; God judged them there in that first earth age, and that is why God can and does intercede in the chosen's ones lives. The justified are the priests of the Zadok in the millennium age of Ezekiel 40, for the word Zadok comes from the Hebrew word meaning "the just".

Certain of God's children stood against Satan in the first earth age, and those that did stand, and did not follow Satan; God judged [justified], and He "chose" them then to be used in His eternal plan. Through God's perfect plan, God "predestined", and "ordained" each of them to His purpose to be used in this flesh age. Each of these will also be used in the Millennium age as priests, or called the "Zadok".

When you become a Christian, and God has given you a working over, He is trying to wake you up. God is calling out a people, His people, the "Elect-chosen, and predestined" to stand against the Antichrist [Satan] in this final generation.

ephesians1

 

[bbyrd009]

Why would God intercede in a person's life, without them even asking? When your free-will goes against God's purpose for your life, God will intercede.

then why not Universal Reconciliation, and why change your mind, etc?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

sometimes we get the remnant mixed up with the ELECT. just something to think about.

Are you saying there is a difference between the elect and remnant?

 

[101G]

Are you saying there is a difference between the elect and remnant?

Romans 11:5-7 "Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. 7 "What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

without getting too technical there are two doctoral way of God salvation. but to avoid an argument this remnant is of Israel and not the world. God elects people to salvation, foreknowledge, and choice, (predestination). God saves both ways, but the key is the how this "WAY" he SAVE people. IN GRACE, with or without the LAW. a remnant of Israel was a small amount of all Israel remaining in GRACE while under the LAW. yes, the Law was only ADDED, (see Gal 3:16-19). and we have many scriptures to prove this. but God also saved "Elect" people by GRACE without the Law.

PCY.

 

[Taken]

Who did God blind?

God provides mankind with His WORD.

God provides mankind with WHAT THEY CHOOSE.

IF a man chooses TO BELIEVE; God provides.
Revealing.

IF a man chooses TO NOT BELIEVE; God provides. Blinding.

Are all Jews the "elect" ?

No.

Gods ELECT is defined BY ONE TERM...
ISRAEL.
Isa 45:4

Name-tags define WHO the Lord chose to do certain things.

The Lord chose (agreeing men), to Hear, Believe, Preserve, Teach "His Word".


That (teaching) began with Hebrews,
Ex 19:8
(Teaching) continues with Jews,
(Teaching)continues with Gentiles....
which now encompasses....ANY MAN....to Hear, Believe, Preserve, Teach "His Word".

They who do; Have "elected" God,
1 Thes 1:4
and are His elect. His ELECT IS ISRAEL.
Isa 45:4

The Understanding ~ is to know, WHAT is Israel, and how does one BECOME ISRAEL.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[APAK]

A difference of one little preposition:

Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done IN earth, as it is in heaven.

Does the scripture clearly distinguish between being IN and being ON? The way I read it is God's will needs to be done IN me, the fleshly temple of Amadeus containing the new man. This is the bit of earth of which I consist according to Gen 2:7 and Ecc 3:20. The globe called planet Earth will not have a transformation in it or on it. The transformation, if there is one, will be IN you or me.

amadeus:

I don’t know if this a moot point by now and you are satisfied with you answer of Matt 6:10 and the preposition, although here’s my take on it.

The work or the will of God to bring the Kingdom in is to be done ON the earth by spreading the gospel to people and all the works of God that glorify him.

Simultaneously, or even before this work can be done ON the earth it is done IN heaven (and proceeds via the spirit of God) to engage believers from ‘IN-side’ their hearts first, to proceed to do the work ON the earth.

(Mat 6:10) Your kingdom come, your will be done, ON earth as it is IN heaven. (ESV)

Bless you,

APAK

 

[amadeus]

amadeus:

I don’t know if this a moot point by now and you are satisfied with you answer of Matt 6:10 and the preposition, although here’s my take on it.

The work or the will of God to bring the Kingdom in is to be done ON the earth by spreading the gospel to people and all the works of God that glorify him.

Simultaneously, or even before this work can be done ON the earth it is done IN heaven (and proceeds via the spirit of God) to engage believers from ‘IN-side’ their hearts first, to proceed to do the work ON the earth.

(Mat 6:10) Your kingdom come, your will be done, ON earth as it is IN heaven. (ESV)

Bless you,

APAK

Thank you!
If it works one way or both ways and God is IN it, where else can I be?

As to the preposition, in my German it is more clearly ON [AUF] whereas in my Spanish it is like English using a proposition [EN] that can be taken either or both ways. This is why we need to be listening to God. He is speaking to us, but we need to be listening and hearing and obeying.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

God provides mankind with His WORD.

God provides mankind with WHAT THEY CHOOSE.

IF a man chooses TO BELIEVE; God provides.
Revealing.

IF a man chooses TO NOT BELIEVE; God provides. Blinding.




No.

Gods ELECT is defined BY ONE TERM...
ISRAEL.
Isa 45:4

Name-tags define WHO the Lord chose to do certain things.

The Lord chose (agreeing men), to Hear, Believe, Preserve, Teach "His Word".


That (teaching) began with Hebrews,
Ex 19:8
(Teaching) continues with Jews,
(Teaching)continues with Gentiles....
which now encompasses....ANY MAN....to Hear, Believe, Preserve, Teach "His Word".

They who do; Have "elected" God,
1 Thes 1:4
and are His elect. His ELECT IS ISRAEL.
Isa 45:4

The Understanding ~ is to know, WHAT is Israel, and how does one BECOME ISRAEL.

God Bless,
Taken

You said "Man chooses". I am sorry but that is not what HE has said to me. I've heard the same argument over and over. Two men visited our home yesterday and sat across from my husband and I...saying the same thing "man chooses" even to go as far as saying: God didn't blind them, they blinded themselves. But God did blind them and He did it to fulfill the word.

Romans 11:15
[15] For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be , but life from the dead?

"Reconciling of the world"

It is not by the will of man:

John 1:13
[13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

"Will" there means: choice or pleasure.

John 1:13
[13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the (choice) of the flesh, nor of the (choice) of man, but of God.

John 3:5-8
[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. [6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. [7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. [8] The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Meaning God has to say: TODAY is your Birth Day.

God is in charge of the conception.
God controls the birth pangs (contractions).
God decides the time: day and hour.
As with a new born traveling down the birth canal during a natural birth: the new born does not conceive itself, the new born does not choose when the contractions begin, and the new born does not choose the time, the hour or the day of its birth.

What the new born does do: the new born feels when the time is near, the new born does not resist the birth process, the new born experiences the contractions, follows the birth canal, and participates. The new born does what God created the new born to do which is to be born of God. Wake up. Happy Birthday. The new born asks "what did I do?" God says: I delivered you.