The Elect

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VictoryinJesus

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Maybe it is just me but up until a few days ago, I completely misunderstood "the elect". I thought God chose His elect(the Jews) and then blinded the elect, until the fullness of the gentiles is fulfilled. When the fullness of the gentiles is accomplished then, God will open their eyes. As I said, I misunderstood.

The word "elect" is thrown around haphazardly. The boast is that "we" are "special" and "were chosen" by God. And the rest were not. But then we make God "not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" a liar. Romans 11:18 gives a strong warning against boasting of the election: Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

The root bearest.
And that root, is God.

It is very important to fully recognize David's prayers in Psalms and what He asked God for:

Psalm 9:16 The Lord is known by the judgment which he executeth: the wicked is snared in the work of his own hands. Higgaion. Selah.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

In Psalm 69:22 David prays: Let their table become a snare before them: and that which should have been for their welfare, let it become a trap. (Luke 20:17-18)

"A stumbling block". And Elias also prayed.

Romans 11:2-5
[2] God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, [3] Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. [4] But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. [5] Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

As a answer to David and Elias prayers God reserved seven thousand men that had not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. The rest He blinded.

Romans 11:6-36
[6] And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. [7] What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded [8] (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.

"And the rest were blinded" : An answer to David.

[9] And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: [10] Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway. [11] I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

So the blind do stumble over the gospel of Jesus Christ. The elect were never blind and that is why some (the ones that had never bowed to idols) see Jesus Christ as the Messiah. Others do not, and therefore were not of the elect. BUT it can be changed. Those blind can have their eyes opened to Jesus Christ. He came to open the eyes of the blind. Those not falling under "elect" can have sight restored...pulled from the fire.

[12] Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

Again, our riches (the gentiles) was their being blinded for disbelief.

[13] For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: [14] If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. (the freewoman (Sarah) provoked by the bondwoman (gentiles) being brought into the house.)

God chose the elect that had not bowed a knee and blinded the rest. But through jealousy, they may see.

[15] For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be , but life from the dead? [16] For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy : and if the root be holy, so are the branches. [17] And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; [18] Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. [19] Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. [20] Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: [21] For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

[22] Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. [23] And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. [24] For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches , be graffed into their own olive tree? [25] For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. [26] And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: [27] For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. [28] As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. [29] For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. [30] For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: [31] Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

[32] For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

[33] O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! [34] For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? [35] Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

[36] For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Romans 9:11
[11] (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil,
that the purpose of God according to election might stand,
not of works, but of him that calleth.
 

Davy

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There is a lot a hatred against the unbelieving Jews among many brethren in the Church that they refuse to see God removing that blindness He put upon a portion of Israel until the times of the Gentiles is fulfilled. Martin Luther preached much hatred against the Jews, as others after him did also.
 

Taken

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ELECT is to choose.

At times God Chose groups (bands, tribes, families) of People, Some remained, some deflected.

At times Groups, bands, tribes, families of People Chose God, Some remained, some deflected.

God calls many, FEW are Chosen (elected).

Individuals ELECT God.

So who is the ELECT of God?

Those He Calls, Those Who Elect Him;
Become His ELECT.

God Bless,
Taken
 

Helen

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@VictoryinJesus

I believe Paul shows it to be those who complete the race, fight the good fight to the end, the overcomer's of Revelation 2
Over and over..." To him who overcomes I will give..."
Which speaks to me that he who does not overcomes doesn't get what the overcomer's get! Simple.
After all...Paul does say..."make your calling and election sure..."

Salvation is a free gift....but the rewards are for faithful servant dedication.

Many indeed are called, but few choose to be chosen.
The choice of our daily life...His life, or mine.
My own life?... or the life that has a cross in it.

Bless you...Helen
 
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Taken

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@VictoryinJesus

I believe Paul shows it to be those who complete the race, fight the good fight to the end, the overcomer's of Revelation 2
Over and over..." To him who overcomes I will give..."
Which speaks to me that he who does not overcomes doesn't get what the overcomer's get! Simple.
After all...Paul does say..."make your calling and election sure..."

Salvation is a free gift....but the rewards are for faithful servant dedication.

Many indeed are called, but few choose to be chosen.
The choice of our daily life...His life, or mine.
My own life?... or the life that has a cross in it.

Bless you...Helen

I believe those who are Jews are they who MUST endure to the end. Meaning if they choose to BE under the Law, obey the law, believe in the Word of God; they shall become saved IF they "continue' until "their" end.

Ancient Hebrews were saved in the same manner. Those who "stopped", did not receive Salvation.

A man who "elects" Jesus Christ, receives their Slavation THEN.

Their glorifying works thereafter are for rewards.

God Bless,
Taken
 

Helen

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I believe those who are Jews are they who MUST endure to the end. Meaning if they choose to BE under the Law, obey the law, believe in the Word of God; they shall become saved IF they "continue' until "their" end.

Ancient Hebrews were saved in the same manner. Those who "stopped", did not receive Salvation.

A man who "elects" Jesus Christ, receives their Slavation THEN.

Their glorifying works thereafter are for rewards.

God Bless,
Taken

Well we will just have to agree to disagree then. :)
I do not.
I see no Jew or gentile in Christ....they are one in Him.
I see no 'special people' but I see the Overcomer's.

But I wont argue it...we each must be persuaded...and God at the end will reveal all.

Bless you...H
 

VictoryinJesus

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@VictoryinJesus

I believe Paul shows it to be those who complete the race, fight the good fight to the end, the overcomer's of Revelation 2
Over and over..." To him who overcomes I will give..."
Which speaks to me that he who does not overcomes doesn't get what the overcomer's get! Simple.
After all...Paul does say..."make your calling and election sure..."

Salvation is a free gift....but the rewards are for faithful servant dedication.

Many indeed are called, but few choose to be chosen.
The choice of our daily life...His life, or mine.
My own life?... or the life that has a cross in it.

Bless you...Helen

I agree but what is to "overcome".
How must we do to "overcome"?

Revelation 17:13-14
[13] These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. [14] These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Isn't it to have one mind, the mind of Christ which is the head of the body.

Yet backup to Revelation 13:6-7
[6] And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. [7] And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

How is that possible? If speaking future tense...how would he "overcome" the saints when they (we) have the mind of Christ?
 

VictoryinJesus

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I believe those who are Jews are they who MUST endure to the end. Meaning if they choose to BE under the Law, obey the law, believe in the Word of God; they shall become saved IF they "continue' until "their" end.

Ancient Hebrews were saved in the same manner. Those who "stopped", did not receive Salvation.

A man who "elects" Jesus Christ, receives their Slavation THEN.

Their glorifying works thereafter are for rewards.

God Bless,
Taken

How many "under the law" continued to the end?
 

Helen

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I agree but what is to "overcome".
Read Rev 2 Jesus says it right there.

Revelation 17:13-14
[13] "These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. [14] These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them.... " Isn't it to have one mind, the mind of Christ which is the head of the body.

Overcoming is and individual race to be run...not collectively.
We need each other to encourage and strengthen us along the pathway home... No one can overcome for you.


Yet backup to Revelation 13:6-7
[6] And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. [7] And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

*What on earth has that got to do with us being overcomer's?
You are muddying the waters here.
It is our old man, self , which must be overcome, for us to be an overcomer.

How is that possible? If speaking future tense...how would he "overcome" the saints when they (we) have the mind of Christ?

Oh come on... :) just as easy to say- " How on earth could the Enemy crucify and overcome Jesus and kill Him? o_O

The Enemy didn't do it...Jesus was doing the will of His Father...the Cross was the Father's will. The Enemy didn't know...we read:-
" for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory."

Where the Head goes, the Body follows.
It is called destiny. :)
 
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Taken

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How many "under the law" continued to the end?

How many? You will have to ask God. I don't have a way to poll every person who Trusted or does from OT to now Trust to believe and subject themselves to the Law.

It doesn't affect me. I trust Jesus is the Christ Messiah, and have Elected and subjected myself to Him, and have already received His Permanent Gift of Salvation.

God Bless,
Taken
 

VictoryinJesus

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Read Rev 2 Jesus says it right there.



Overcoming is and individual race to be run...not collectively.
We need each other to encourage and strengthen us along the pathway home... No one can overcome for you.




*What on earth has that got to do with us being overcomer's?
You are muddying the waters here.
It is our old man, self , which must be overcome, for us to be an overcomer.



Oh come on... :) just as easy to say- " How on earth could the Enemy crucify and overcome Jesus and kill Him? o_O

The Enemy didn't do it...Jesus was doing the will of His Father...the Cross was the Father's will. The Enemy didn't know...we read:-
" for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory."

Where the Head goes, the Body follows.
It is called destiny. :)

I thought it was a fair question in: He that overcomes until the end. Did the enemy "overcome" Jesus Christ on the cross? I don't see it that way.
 
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Taken

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Well we will just have to agree to disagree then. :)
I do not.
I see no Jew or gentile in Christ....they are one in Him.
I see no 'special people' but I see the Overcomer's.

But I wont argue it...we each must be persuaded...and God at the end will reveal all.

Bless you...H


No need to argue. You had your say, so also will I.

I believe ANYONE who confesses belief in their hearts in Christ Jesus, the Son of God come in the flesh, become Saved and Born Again "RIGHT THEN".

Don't know what you believe about that.

I do know MANY Jews do not confess Christ Jesus.

What is your take on them? They all perish without having received Salvation?

God Bless,
Taken
 

Davy

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I agree but what is to "overcome".
How must we do to "overcome"?

Revelation 17:13-14
[13] These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. [14] These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Isn't it to have one mind, the mind of Christ which is the head of the body.

Yet backup to Revelation 13:6-7
[6] And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. [7] And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

How is that possible? If speaking future tense...how would he "overcome" the saints when they (we) have the mind of Christ?

We overcome by keeping the Faith, and not being deceived to fall away to worship another, and as much as possible, keep ourselves pure by staying away from doing iniquity and those who do iniquity.
 

Taken

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I agree but what is to "overcome".
How must we do to "overcome"?

To overcome means to have overcome the World. Ie to have Victory over having been "OF" the World.

The Victory is we are "IN" the World, but no longer "OF" the World.

We all begin "OF" the World. We are natural, taken out "OF" the Earth.

Victory is becoming, "OF" God. From natural to heavenly.

How? To become reconciled wholly, holy, whole; body, soul, spirit, unto God.

How? Trust, Heartfelt Belief, Election of God.

How? Effected by the Power of God, who is Christ.

God Bless,
Taken
 

amadeus

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I agree but what is to "overcome".
How must we do to "overcome"?

Revelation 17:13-14
[13] These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. [14] These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Isn't it to have one mind, the mind of Christ which is the head of the body.

Yet backup to Revelation 13:6-7
[6] And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. [7] And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

How is that possible? If speaking future tense...how would he "overcome" the saints when they (we) have the mind of Christ?
Jesus of course had the mind of Christ, but He also had to overcome the world, the world of the temptations of his own very corruptible flesh. His flesh was corruptible, but as he never sinned, it was never corrupted. We therefore have in a sense a longer road to walk because when we came to God, we already had sin and sinful ways as a part of us. The sin was forgiven, but the sinful ways must also be removed [overcome] so as not to go back into sin again. What needs to be overcome? Probably all of it can be found in this verse:

"For all that is in the world, [1] the lust of the flesh, and [2] the lust of the eyes, and [3] the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." I John 2:16

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world" John 16:33

The "world" I see for Jesus and for us is not planet Earth or all of the people on planet Earth, but rather the little world of fleshly self of each of us. Jesus as a man had the advantage over us in that from Bethlehem he was already the Word of God. His fleshly temptations assailed him as they do us, but he never submitted to them ever. We already had done so before we knew any better. God sees this and takes this in to consideration for His judgment is always fair:

"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48
 
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101G

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Greeting, @VJ, Good topic. sometimes we get the remnant mixed up with the ELECT. just something to think about.

and one other thing.
Romans 9:11
[11] (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil,
that the purpose of God according to election might stand,
not of works, but of him that calleth.

this is a great verse. God can call at anytime. be ye among the Living as well as the dead. and I based this on these scripture, Romans 14:7 "For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. 8 "For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

Romans 14:9 "For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living".

PCY.
 
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DPMartin

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again victoryinjesus

you suit your own pleasers with bible scripture to justify your said belief.

elect means and this is the OED and this would be the definitions used by the translators:

1. trans. To pick out, choose (usually, for a particular purpose or function). Also absol. Obs. in general sense.
To make deliberate choice of (a course of action, an opinion, etc.) in preference to an alternative.
To choose (a person) by vote for appointment to an office or position of any kind. Used in three different constructions: to elect (a person) to (an office, etc.); to elect (an officer, etc.); and with complement, as ‘they elected him their chief’.

1. Picked out, chosen; also, chosen for excellence or by preference; select, choice. Also absol. a person or persons chosen.
in Theol. Chosen by God, esp. for salvation or eternal life. Opposed to reprobate. Often absol. with plural sense, the elect.
Chosen to an office or dignity. Now usually, Chosen, elected, but not installed in office (in this sense almost always following the n.). Similarly, in mod. use, bride, bridegroom elect, said of betrothed persons


and again extracting text for your own pleasure bringing your idol of what a god ought to be for public acceptance.
 

Taken

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"For all that is
IN the world, [1] the lust of the flesh, and [2] the lust of the eyes, and [3] the pride of life, is not OF the Father, but is OF the world." I John 2:16

Amen, Amen, Amen!!!

When a man is still existing physically alive "IN" the physical world....AND NOT "OF" God, Such man is IN & OF, the world.

And a man who HAS BECOME, Saved and Born Again....

Such man HAS OVERCOME THE WORLD.

Such man is NO LONGER a man "OF" the natural world; He IS a man "OF" God; a son "OF" God; and is thus prepared to be a man "IN" and "OF" Gods Kingdom.

God Bless,
Taken

 

amadeus

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And then even before he went to the cross, Jesus was no longer IN the world:

"And now I am no more IN the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." John 17:11

Even though Jesus was still on planet Earth he was no longer IN the world of the temptations of his own flesh. I believe he had already overcome that world in Gethsemene when he finished the third prayer there:

"And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." Matt 26:39
 
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