Three Days and Three Nights

[BreadOfLife]

Totally wrong. They were told to fast 3 days. Night amd day. Not to pray. Ester and here handmaidens did the same.
On the 3rd day she went to the king. But she didn't say she would go after the fast:

Esther 4:16 KJV
Go, gather together all the Jews that are present in Shushan, and fast ye for me, and neither eat nor drink three days, night or day: I also and my maidens will fast likewise; and so will I go in unto the king, which is not according to the law: and if I perish, I perish.

Second... There are many different styles of fasting. But they all have a prescribed time. A full day fast is from sunrise to dark. Other sources say its until the first stars appear. On source pinned it down to 25 hours. In whichever case, this fast was 3 full days and nights. Ester gping to the king had nothing to do with the length of the fast.

That IS Jewish custom and I challenge you to show me anywhere that a full day fast was fulfilled by a partial day counting. Using your line of thinking, a Jew could bwgin a fast on Monday at 5 pm and end his "3 day and night" fast on Tuesday at 7 pm.... I don't think thats going to fly!

"3 days and 3 nights" is not a Jewish idiom either. Calling it one doesn't make it one. I looked at 3 websites on Jewish idioms and its never mentioned.

Don't take my word for it... Look at this web site:
http://m.tzion.org/site/articles/threedays.html

1. It is claimed that the reference in Matthew 12:40 is an idiom in attempt to explain away the three days and nights. However, phrases which include the words "and night(s)" are not considered to be idioms. (see "The Companion Bible", App. note #s 144 & 156 on Matthew 12:40) Therefore using the phrase, "days and nights" removes the phrase from the realm of idioms and causes the understanding to become three literal twenty four hour periods of time."

You STILL have a problem because Jesus didn't go into the tomb to "fast" for 3 days and 3 nights.
Your problem remains also with the story of Esther because she went to see the King BEFORE the fast was over.

As I educated yo earlier - the Jews reconciled any part of a day as a Day.
Here it is - straight from the Jewish Encyclopedia:
In Jewish communal life part of a day is at times reckoned as one day; e.g., the day of the funeral, even when the latter takes place late in the afternoon, is counted as the first of the seven days of mourning; a short time in the morning of the seventh day is counted as the seventh day; circumcision takes place on the eighth day, even though of the first day only a few minutes remained after the birth of the child, these being counted as one day.

 

[FHII]

You STILL have a problem because Jesus didn't go into the tomb to "fast" for 3 days and 3 nights

You are the one who is trying to prove the point by xomparing it to fasting, not me. It isn't my problem, its yours.

Your problem remains also with the story of Esther because she went to see the King BEFORE the fast was over.

It doesn't matter. The 3 days: night and day oertain to the fast; not when she went. Second, in verse in Ester 5:1 says on the 3rd day she went... Ok. The reference I provided says that could be an idiom. Josephus used the term "after the third day" and "third day" interchangably. In 5:1 it could mean she stood in the inner court after the 3rd day. But even still the fa t that the fast was 72 hours remains true.

And again, I am not the one trying to prove that Jesus was in the tomb a total of a day and a half by comparing it to fasting.

As I educated yo earlier - the Jews reconciled any part of a day as a Day.
Here it is - straight from the Jewish Encyclopedia:

The Rabbi disagrees with tou and educates you to the truth. He said it meant 72 hours. Your arguement is with him.

Again... A wednesday burial is the only way everything works. Tell me how with a Friday burial the women bought spices AFTER the Sabbath and prepared them BEFORE the sabbath IF there wasn't 2 separate Sabbaths on non consecutive days.

 

[aspen]

So tedious.....

 

[rstrats]

BreadOfLife,
re: "Because the Bible says that Jesus rose on Sunday - not any other day."

Where have I said otherwise?





re: "Because some of you are saying that there HAD to be 3 days and 3 nights, which shows a complete ignorance of Jewish culture AND Scripture."


I don't see what that has to do with your statement that: "Furthermore - they counted a Day as being from sundown on the previous day to sundown on the next day." And I still don't see what that statement has to do with the request in this topic for examples.





re: "If you don't know - then you're not paying attention to the conversation . . ."

I don't see where your Esther referrence shows an example where a daytime or a night time was forecast or said to be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could have occurred.





re: "There didn't need to be a third night."

So why do you suppose the Messiah said that there would be a third night?





re: "The stone was rolled back on Sunday and not before."

What is your point?






re: "You're making things up that just aren't there . . . "

What things would that be?

 

[rstrats]

BreadOfLife,
re: "In Jewish communal life part of a day is at times reckoned as one day ; e.g.,..."


But what examples do you have which show that no part of a day was reckoned as a day?

 

[Davy]

Not sure why this topic gets dragged out of mothballs every Lenten season.
It shows a complete lack of faith in the Word of God.

For starters, the Jews reckoned any PART of a day as a WHOLE day. Furthermore - they counted a Day as being from sundown on the previous day to sundown on the next day. We see this in the OT, when Esther told the people to pray for 3 days and 3 nights before she was to address the King. She went to see the kin ON the 3rd day.

Jesus was buried BEFORE sunset on Friday = 1st Day (Friday)
He spent all say Saturday in the Tomb - 2nd Day (Saturday)
He rose on Sunday morning - 3rd Day (Sunday)

The Bible is CLEAR that He rose on the FIRST day of the week - SUNDAY (Matt. 28:1, Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, John 20:1).

Case CLOSED.

Nice try, but you failed to include the 3 nights. And you even missed your own advice about the Hebrew reckoning for a day being sundown to sundown, because you began your count after sunset as a "Day".


If a Friday burial were true, then:
1st Night - sunset to dawn, Saturday (if buried on Friday, if Friday was the preparation day).
1st Day - dawn to sunset, Saturday
2nd Night - sunset to dawn, Sunday - both Mary's came to the tomb Sunday morning and found it open.
Does not fit the 3 days and 3 nights requirement Jesus gave.


A Wednesday burial, just prior to sunset, does fit the 3 days and 3 nights requirement:
Jesus crucified on Wednesday and His body buried on Wednesday just before sunset.
1st Night - sunset to dawn, Thursday night.
1st Day - dawn to sunset, Thursday day.
2nd Night - sunset to dawn, Friday night.
2nd Day - dawn to sunset, Friday day.
3rd Night - sunset to dawn, Saturday night.
3rd Day - dawn to sunset, Saturday day.
A Wednesday burial DOES fit Jesus' requirement that His body would be in the tomb for 3 days AND 3 nights.

The Friday tradition is false, and is nothing more than a tradition of men. And that's why this topic keeps getting hashed out, because some would rather hide the Truth than to allow their tradition to fail.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Nice try, but you failed to include the 3 nights. And you even missed your own advice about the Hebrew reckoning for a day being sundown to sundown, because you began your count after sunset as a "Day".

If a Friday burial were true, then:
1st Night - sunset to dawn, Saturday (if buried on Friday, if Friday was the preparation day).
1st Day - dawn to sunset, Saturday
2nd Night - sunset to dawn, Sunday - both Mary's came to the tomb Sunday morning and found it open.
Does not fit the 3 days and 3 nights requirement Jesus gave.

A Wednesday burial, just prior to sunset, does fit the 3 days and 3 nights requirement:
Jesus crucified on Wednesday and His body buried on Wednesday just before sunset.
1st Night - sunset to dawn, Thursday night.
1st Day - dawn to sunset, Thursday day.
2nd Night - sunset to dawn, Friday night.
2nd Day - dawn to sunset, Friday day.
3rd Night - sunset to dawn, Saturday night.
3rd Day - dawn to sunset, Saturday day.
A Wednesday burial DOES fit Jesus' requirement that His body would be in the tomb for 3 days AND 3 nights.

The Friday tradition is false, and is nothing more than a tradition of men. And that's why this topic keeps getting hashed out, because some would rather hide the Truth than to allow their tradition to fail.

Wow - it's almost as if you didn't read my posts at all.

You have ignored the way a day is reckoned by the Jews - and you have also ignored the fact that this has been the constant living Tradition of the Church since the beginning. The Early Christians didn't just make all of this up.

Denial of these facts is why there is so much confusion surrounding this non-issue.

 

[Davy]

Wow - it's almost as if you didn't read my posts at all.

You have ignored the way a day is reckoned by the Jews - and you have also ignored the fact that this has been the constant living Tradition of the Church since the beginning. The Early Christians didn't just make all of this up.

Denial of these facts is why there is so much confusion surrounding this non-issue.

You're bearing false witness.

I read what you wrote and it is nothing but tradition.

And I most definitely DID NOT ignore how the Jews reckoned a 24 hour day. (from sunset to sunset).

NOR DID I IGNORE JESUS' REQUIREMENT OF HIS BODY BEING IN THE TOMB FOR 3 DAYS AND 3 NIGHTS, BUT YOU DID, YOU HYPOCRITE!

Matt 12:40
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
KJV

 

[BreadOfLife]

You're bearing false witness.

I read what you wrote and it is nothing but tradition.

And I most definitely DID NOT ignore how the Jews reckoned a 24 hour day. (from sunset to sunset).

NOR DID I IGNORE JESUS' REQUIREMENT OF HIS BODY BEING IN THE TOMB FOR 3 DAYS AND 3 NIGHTS, BUT YOU DID, YOU HYPOCRITE!

Matt 12:40
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
KJV

You absolutely ignored how the Jews reckoned a day.
They considered ANY PART of a day as a "Day" (Jewish Encyclopedia).

You ALSO ignored the fact that three days and three nights doesn't necessarily mean three 24 hour periods in Scripture.
I even gave you the example of Esther . . .

 

[Davy]

You absolutely ignored how the Jews reckoned a day.
They considered ANY PART of a day as a "Day" (Jewish Encyclopedia).

You ALSO ignored the fact that three days and three nights doesn't necessarily mean three 24 hour periods in Scripture.
I even gave you the example of Esther . . .

You bear FALSE WITNESS AGAIN!

The Hebrew reckoning for a 24 hour day is from sunset to sunset. The very FIRST hour begins at NIGHT when the sun has just gone down.

So YES, "three nights" that Jesus proclaimed means 3 NIGHTS TOO, i.e., the Hebrew 24 hour period divided into night time and day time. Even today's reckoning for a 24 hour day includes NIGHT TIME FROM MIDNIGHT TO DAWN!

This is so elementary, it's really funny to watch someone like what you're trying to do, i.e., preaching falseness just in order to try to save a false tradition of man that you follow!

 

[BreadOfLife]

You are the one who is trying to prove the point by xomparing it to fasting, not me. It isn't my problem, its yours.

WRONG.
I was simply comparing the language of how "3 days and 3 nights" was reckoned.

Try being honest, for a change.

It doesn't matter. The 3 days: night and day oertain to the fast; not when she went. Second, in verse in Ester 5:1 says on the 3rd day she went... Ok. The reference I provided says that could be an idiom. Josephus used the term "after the third day" and "third day" interchangably. In 5:1 it could mean she stood in the inner court after the 3rd day. But even still the fa t that the fast was 72 hours remains true.
And again, I am not the one trying to prove that Jesus was in the tomb a total of a day and a half by comparing it to fasting.

Look at your contradictions.
You use terms like "could be" and "could mean" - which are simply your opinions.
THEN you say that is is a "Fact".

The Rabbi disagrees with tou and educates you to the truth. He said it meant 72 hours. Your arguement is with him.

READ the article.
It says that ANY PART of a day can be reckoned as a "Day."

Again... A wednesday burial is the only way everything works. Tell me how with a Friday burial the women bought spices AFTER the Sabbath and prepared them BEFORE the sabbath IF there wasn't 2 separate Sabbaths on non consecutive days.

What are you talking about??
The sabbath ended on Saturday night after sundown. The women were free to labor on preparing the spices on Saturday night.
THEN, they took the spices to the tomb on SUNDAY morning:

Mark 16:1-2
When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus' body. Very early on the first day of the week, just after sunrise, they were on their way to the tomb

Luke 23:56
Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.

Luke 24:1
On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You bear FALSE WITNESS AGAIN!

The Hebrew reckoning for a 24 hour day is from sunset to sunset. The very FIRST hour begins at NIGHT when the sun has just gone down.

So YES, "three nights" that Jesus proclaimed means 3 NIGHTS TOO, i.e., the Hebrew 24 hour period divided into night time and day time. Even today's reckoning for a 24 hour day includes NIGHT TIME FROM MIDNIGHT TO DAWN!

This is so elementary, it's really funny to watch someone like what you're trying to do, i.e., preaching falseness just in order to try to save a false tradition of man that you follow!

WRONG.

I presented proof from the Jewish Encyclopedia that a day can be reckoned as ANY PART of a day - and I even gave examples.
Go back and R*E*A*D them . . .

You can deny it all you want - but in the end, you're STILL wrong.

 

[Davy]

To brethren here that use common sense:

It's always important to understand the difference between God's Truth per His Word and men's traditions. In Acts 12 the KJV translators added the word "Easter" which was actually the name for an old pagan tradition (from Eastre, name of a goddess of spring - see historian Bede). The actual word in Acts 12 is not Easter, but pascha which means passover.

1 Cor 5:7
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
KJV

Apostle Paul was very learned in the Hebrew Old Testament, having been brought up under the best Hebrew scholar of his day, Gamaliel (Acts 22:3; Acts 5:34). So do you really think Paul would make the mistake of calling our Lord Jesus "our passover", meaning our Christian Passover?

Also, would Paul, who was well learned in the OT Books, make the mistake of referring to passover being at a different time that aligned with some pagan goddess of spring convocation (Eastre)?

I'm not saying any brother in Christ is worshipping a pagan goddess by observing the time of Christ's resurrection with the Easter tradition. That's just a label now used to represent the time of our Lord's death and resurrection. We well know the difference between worshipping a pagan goddess and recognizing Christ's death and resurrection. So also recognizing God's timings with His passover applied to our Lord Jesus' death and resurrection also is important. But don't confuse it with Judaism which does not recognize Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ which we do recognize Jesus as The Christ, The Son of God.

 

[FHII]

Look at your contradictions.
You use terms like "could be" and "could mean" - which are simply your opinions.
THEN you say that is is a "Fact".

It is a fact... You are not being honest. 3 days and 3 nights pertains to the fast, not when she went to say the king. There is not contradiction. None of that is my opinion. Exactly when she went to see the king on the third day (or after the 3rd day IF it is an idiom) is not know.

READ the article.
It says that ANY PART of a day can be reckoned as a "Day."

I not only read it,I quoted it. I don't think you read the whole article. You are being disagreed with by the Rabbi.

What are you talking about??
The sabbath ended on Saturday night after sundown. The women were free to labor on preparing the spices on Saturday night.

Reread the question and the verses which I gave earlier. They bought the spices AFTER the sabbath but prepared them BEFORE the sabbath. You clearly aren't understanding this.

 

[BreadOfLife]

It is a fact... You are not being honest. 3 days and 3 nights pertains to the fast, not when she went to say the king. There is not contradiction. None of that is my opinion. Exactly when she went to see the king on the third day (or after the 3rd day IF it is an idiom) is not know.

Wrong.

YOUR words:
"Ok. The reference I provided says that could be an idiom. Josephus used the term "after the third day" and "third day" interchangably. In 5:1 it could mean she stood in the inner court after the 3rd day. "

I not only read it,I quoted it. I don't think you read the whole article. You are being disagreed with by the Rabbi.

Wrong.

From Jewishencyclopedia.org:
"In Jewish communal life part of a day is at times reckoned as one day; e.g., the day of the funeral, even when the latter takes place late in the afternoon, is counted as the first of the seven days of mourning; a short time in the morning of the seventh day is counted as the seventh day; circumcision takes place on the eighth day, even though of the first day only a few minutes remained after the birth of the child, these being counted as one day."

Reread the question and the verses which I gave earlier. They bought the spices AFTER the sabbath but prepared them BEFORE the sabbath. You clearly aren't understanding this.

Luke is the ONLY one who addresses this:

Luke 23:56
Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.
This states that they prepared the spices before sundown on Friday.

ALL 4 Gospels state that Jesus was crucified on the Day of Preparation (Matthew 27:62; Mark 15:42; Luke 23:54; John 19:14, 31, 42).
This refers to preparing for the SABBATH. There is NO record in ALL of Scripture that refers to the day before Passover as, "The Day of Preparation."

Ergo, Jesus was crucified on FRIDAY.[/QUOTE]

 

[FHII]

Wrong.

YOUR words:
"Ok. The reference I provided says that could be an idiom. Josephus used the term "after the third day" and "third day" interchangably. In 5:1 it could mean she stood in the inner court after the 3rd day.

You only partially quoted me. I was very clear when you read all my comment in context.

Again, we are discussing Esther 4:16 - 5:1. In those verses Esther asks for a fast of three days, both night and day. That fast was set and according to Jewish custom it was 72 hours according to the settings of the Sun.

Are you following me so far? Fasts are NOT made up of partial days. Furthermore 3 days and 3 nights is NOT an idiom. The link I provided contains an article which states that. Here is the link again:

http://m.tzion.org/site/articles/threedays.html

Verse 5:1 states that Esther went to see the king "on the third day". Two points: 1. The three days and 3 nights in 4:16 are about the fast; not when Esther went to see the king. 2. "On the third day" actually could be an idiom. The link I provided agrees with that. The link I provided says when such language is used (unlike saying 3 days and three nights) can be an idiom. It can be a partial day. Josephus used the phrase in his writing interchangably with the phrase "after three days".

Do yo follow me so far? So in 5:1 there is some slack concerning how much time passed. It could be 2 1/2 days or it could be 3 1/2 days according to how Jewish idioms are used. In fact, the way you want to use idioms, it could have been 24 hours and 2 minutes.

The bottom line is that Esther offers you no support in trying to prove a Friday crucifixion. It actually disproves it because a 3 day abd night fast is actually 72 hours.

 

[FHII]

Wrong.

From Jewishencyclopedia.org:
"In Jewish communal life part of a day is at times reckoned as one day; e.g.,.....

Ah! I was right! You didn't read the article I posted. You were talking about your own reference (which I did read and does not disagree with the one I posted). So, its a matter of not being on the same page.

I do not disagree with the information given in your article. However, the one I posted gives information not covered in yours. That information says that when 3 days and 3 nights are apoken of, its talking about 72 hours. It was written by a Rabbi so I trust its somewhat authoritative. Here is that link again:

http://m.tzion.org/site/articles/threedays.html

In short: "a day" can mean something less than 24 hours. "A day and a night " means 24 hours... Not less.

 

[rstrats]

BreadOfLife,

You have several questions directed to you in posts 324 and 325.

 

[FHII]

Luke is the ONLY one who addresses this:

Luke 23:56
Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.
This states that they prepared the spices before sundown on Friday.

Actually there is. I gave it a while back in my initial post. But I know you are busy. Perhaps you missed it.

Mark 16:1 KJV
And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome,
Mark 16:1 KJV
And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.


It didn't say "brought". It said "bought". That is purchased. When did they purchase them? When the Sabbath was past. In other words, after the sabbath.

Mark 16:1 says the purchased the spices after the Sabbath. Luke 23:56 says they prepared them before the sabbath. You even agreed with that!

Now follow me closely... How can you prepare spices before you purchase them? How did they prepare the spices on Friday when they didn't even purchase them until Saturday after 6 PM? (According to your timeline)

 

[rstrats]

FHII,
re: " A wednesday burial is the only way everything works. Tell me how with a Friday burial the women bought spices AFTER the Sabbath and prepared them BEFORE the sabbath IF there wasn't 2 separate Sabbaths..."

Can you say for sure that the spice shops couldn't have opened - at least for a short time - immediately after the weekly Sabbath ended?