This thread is all about whether we consider we have ‘free’ will to choose, especially spiritual things or not. Yes, we have our own will to choose how to live, plan, work etc. on this earth. I say is this really ‘free’ will? Not really. God gave us the capability to do all these things to survive and populate the earth. God also gave his will to know him, with our own will. This is a spiritual matter and concerns God’s plans, and not our own.
True free-will is a spiritual affair and we really do not know the extend and complete knowledge of it.
I am of the belief we do not have true ‘free’ will to choose spiritual things. WE are very limited. God has his plan for us and typically overrides our desires or will for those he chooses to ‘bring’ them to knowledge of truth.
We are born with the natural state of being slaves to sin. This alone tells us we are naturally governed by our natural desires. This alone tells us we do not have ‘free’ will to choose God over our own selfish desires. God ultimately chooses us.
Many would say we are then not responsible for our actions. We are at the mercy of God and he controls us like a puppet. No, we are accountable for our actions and yes, we are at the mercy of God, and no, we are not puppets.
God is all-knowing, he is not confined to our sequential time constraints or our 3-D space enclosures including the expanse of the physical universe. He ‘saw’ the future or our destinations before we were conceived. He also invisibly and without human detection, injected himself into our lives, if he desired. We are oblivious to all of this.
At God’s pleasure and choosing, in time, already planned out, he uses some type of criteria (maybe our tendency to love and know God, or just the opposite -yes, to choose under a sinful nature as a slave to sin!) to re-route or maintain the course of someone’s life. He may have plotted and implemented many hundreds of changes in our lives. He already looked at our spiritual DNA, if you will.
His purpose is to bring those he already saw considering him, as slaves to sin, to the Truth. Then God created an environment(s) that would bring them to the truth. From that point on, a person ‘chooses,’ because of the overwhelming power of God presence to follow him in truth with firm faith and commitment. Left alone, using their sinful will and desires, they would never consider choosing God.
Now Scripture does not explicitly speak to this ‘hypothesis’ I’ve describes in skeleton form, although it does seem to fit God’s style and purpose and does not violate any scripture I know of.
As God says we all know him at least by his physical creation(s). We have no excuse to at least consider his presence in our lives. God has given us the ability to choose and to reach out to him in need, even as slaves to sin. He listens to this cry. This is what God taps into and acts on or not. We are truly accountable to consider God first. This is the only ‘free’ choice we can make about our future spiritual state.
So, when God tugs at our hearts and chooses us, we miraculously go to him for his purpose and not our own. We have no choice as we have an overwhelming desire to cross over the fence to truth and not stay in sin and evil. God however will not create this miraculous spiritual environment for everyone; for those he knows will never consider him and his ways.
The concept of ‘free’ will is founded in secular Greek philosophy- Plato, Socrates and Aristotle. It has no business in scripture regarding spiritual matters of the heart. The Greeks spoke of the will or desire in the natural man not the spiritual man. Although they tried to combine the two or say they were the same thing. They were unsuccessful.
(Isa 55:8) The LORD says, "My thoughts are not like yours. Your ways are not like mine.
(Isa 55:9) Just as the heavens are higher than the earth, so my ways are higher than your ways, and my thoughts are higher than your thoughts."
(Isa 55:10) "Rain and snow fall from the sky and don't return until they have watered the ground. Then the ground causes the plants to sprout and grow, and they produce seeds for the farmer and food for people to eat.
(Isa 55:11) In the same way, my words leave my mouth, and they don't come back without results. My words make the things happen that I want to happen. They succeed in doing what I send them to do. (ALL ERV)
Your feedback is suggested…and encouraged
APAK
True free-will is a spiritual affair and we really do not know the extend and complete knowledge of it.
I am of the belief we do not have true ‘free’ will to choose spiritual things. WE are very limited. God has his plan for us and typically overrides our desires or will for those he chooses to ‘bring’ them to knowledge of truth.
We are born with the natural state of being slaves to sin. This alone tells us we are naturally governed by our natural desires. This alone tells us we do not have ‘free’ will to choose God over our own selfish desires. God ultimately chooses us.
Many would say we are then not responsible for our actions. We are at the mercy of God and he controls us like a puppet. No, we are accountable for our actions and yes, we are at the mercy of God, and no, we are not puppets.
God is all-knowing, he is not confined to our sequential time constraints or our 3-D space enclosures including the expanse of the physical universe. He ‘saw’ the future or our destinations before we were conceived. He also invisibly and without human detection, injected himself into our lives, if he desired. We are oblivious to all of this.
At God’s pleasure and choosing, in time, already planned out, he uses some type of criteria (maybe our tendency to love and know God, or just the opposite -yes, to choose under a sinful nature as a slave to sin!) to re-route or maintain the course of someone’s life. He may have plotted and implemented many hundreds of changes in our lives. He already looked at our spiritual DNA, if you will.
His purpose is to bring those he already saw considering him, as slaves to sin, to the Truth. Then God created an environment(s) that would bring them to the truth. From that point on, a person ‘chooses,’ because of the overwhelming power of God presence to follow him in truth with firm faith and commitment. Left alone, using their sinful will and desires, they would never consider choosing God.
Now Scripture does not explicitly speak to this ‘hypothesis’ I’ve describes in skeleton form, although it does seem to fit God’s style and purpose and does not violate any scripture I know of.
As God says we all know him at least by his physical creation(s). We have no excuse to at least consider his presence in our lives. God has given us the ability to choose and to reach out to him in need, even as slaves to sin. He listens to this cry. This is what God taps into and acts on or not. We are truly accountable to consider God first. This is the only ‘free’ choice we can make about our future spiritual state.
So, when God tugs at our hearts and chooses us, we miraculously go to him for his purpose and not our own. We have no choice as we have an overwhelming desire to cross over the fence to truth and not stay in sin and evil. God however will not create this miraculous spiritual environment for everyone; for those he knows will never consider him and his ways.
The concept of ‘free’ will is founded in secular Greek philosophy- Plato, Socrates and Aristotle. It has no business in scripture regarding spiritual matters of the heart. The Greeks spoke of the will or desire in the natural man not the spiritual man. Although they tried to combine the two or say they were the same thing. They were unsuccessful.
(Isa 55:8) The LORD says, "My thoughts are not like yours. Your ways are not like mine.
(Isa 55:9) Just as the heavens are higher than the earth, so my ways are higher than your ways, and my thoughts are higher than your thoughts."
(Isa 55:10) "Rain and snow fall from the sky and don't return until they have watered the ground. Then the ground causes the plants to sprout and grow, and they produce seeds for the farmer and food for people to eat.
(Isa 55:11) In the same way, my words leave my mouth, and they don't come back without results. My words make the things happen that I want to happen. They succeed in doing what I send them to do. (ALL ERV)
Your feedback is suggested…and encouraged
APAK