Another Holocaust?

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brakelite

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Who is true Israel? Is it the physical nation fighting for its existence in the Middle East, or is it the spiritual entity we know as the church. And if its the church, which one?

The name “Israel” first appears in the Bible in Genesis 32:28 After a night of wrestling with the heavenly visitor (who I personally believe to be Christ Himself) Jacob prevails in his efforts and his name is changed from Jacob, the deceiver or supplanter, to Israel, meaning he will rule, or ovrrcomer. Jacob has prevailed with God and overcome.

At the time of this event, Jacob was reluctant to face Esau after 20 years of exile and was quite simply terrified of him. His former deception of his father and claim to be Esau was now playing on his conscience and he desired God’s blessing and forgiveness before proceeding. So the ‘Angel’ asks Jacob his name, to which he truthfully replies ‘my name is Jacob’. In this he was confessing his guilt, and God then knew he was a changed man, so gave him a new name that celebrated so to speak his victory over sin, self and his night of wrestling in prayer, the ‘Angel’ saying “for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.”
Israel, as a name therefore represents spiritual victory over sin.

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Is this real Israel?

This is significant as it tells us God’s purpose for His people. That is, to live in victory over sin, to show forth God’s true character to the world.

In Exod 4:22,23 Moses is instructed on how he is to speak to Pharaoh in order that Israel’s descendants may be freed from slavery. God says to Moses “and thou shalt say unto Pharaoh ‘Thus saith the Lord,Israel is My son, my firstborn and I say unto thee let My son go to serve me…”
This is the first time Israel is used in a corporate sense for the entire nation. Before it applied only to an individual, but here we see it being applied to his descendants. First to a victorious man, then to his people.
Did Israel live up to that name? What was God trying to accomplish in establishing Israel in the first place? Was it not that He would have a people to represent Him on the earth? Before God had His champions, but all failed. Sin interposed and no longer was any of God’s chosen able to fulfill the true destiny that God intended for them. Adam failed over appetite. So did Noah. Abraham also, but God was determined to establish a people after His own heart and show the gentiles His law, His mercy and grace and power. Interesting that Adam, Noah, and Israel all failed on points of appetite. (Gen 9:20,21; Exodus 16:27-29.)

It wasn’t until Jesus came on the scene in person that the title “Israel” in it’s truest spiritual sense and power could be rightly bestowed. And Mathew in particular showed this time and time again how Jesus was the fulfillment of the OT prophecies which may have originally applied to the nation, but now, according to Mathew’s inspired writings, applied in fact to Jesus. Examples are Hosea 11:1 ;Isaiah 41:8,42:1-3 .

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Or is the spiritual entity we know as the 'church', true Israel?

Paul followed the same idea and reasoning by paralleling Col 1:15 with Ex 4:22, Gal 3:16with Isaiah 41:8 and elsewhere.

Jesus Himself proclaimed Himself as the true vine, in fulfilment of Ps 80:8 which applied to the nation.
So now the mantle and authority once bestowed upon the nation has been given to Jesus. Jesus is the essence of true Israel. He only has the right to bear the name for He only has prevailed with sin and overcome. Jesus walked over the same ground that Israel walked, but came through victorious. In His temptations in the wilderness, it was appetite that came under particular scrutiny.

What Paul does in Romans and other writers in the NT however is extend that idea and show how the name Israel also now applies to Jesus’ descendants, just as it did to Jacob’s descendants. Peter also showed this when he compared the church to Exodus 19:6.(1 Peter 2:9).
So as Paul says, immediately after saying that Jesus is the ‘seed’ of Abraham, Gentile converts in Galatia were now also Abraham’s seed because they are Christ’s. They are also heirs according to the promise.
This is not ‘replacement ‘ theology. It is merely a revelation of who true Israel always was and who Israel is now. It is those people, of whatever nation kindred tongue and people, who by faith in the mercy grace and power of God overcome sin and receive Christ’s righteousness and forgiveness as a gift and are willing to share that gift with the lost. True Israel was always exclusively those who “as princes had power with God and men and prevailed”.

Thus the unfulfilled covenant that Jeremiah speaks of and repeated in hebrews, “I will place My laws in their hearts and in their minds I will write them” applies to the church, not a resurgent nation. All Israel will be saved, but the descendants of Jesus, not flesh and blood descendants of Jacob.

And the prophecies that most believe apply to the nation, apply to the church. For example, Armageddon is not the world arrayed against the nation of Israel, but the unsaved world (those who have accepted the mark) arrayed against the remnant who have refused the mark, and are under the sentence of death. Those who keep the commandments of God, (and thus have gained that victory over sin) and have the faith of Jesus.Rev.12:17; 14:12.
 
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Reggie Belafonte

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Wrong, Anyone who knows the Bible knows what is what, All people are from some race as are any religion, the so called Jews are a Semitic race just as the foundation of people of Islam comes from a Semitic race, don't believe me, well who do you think Cain and his brother is ?
Anti-Semitic ? is another load of brainwashing hog wash that is peddled, if a person rejects or hates the Jews how can that be Anti-Semitic, fact is it's another load of brainwashing tec peddled.
Anti-Jewish it should be classed as this would mean one rejects that religion, not the race at all.
So I would say that DNA proves that the Hebrews comes from the Semitic race, just as does the Islamic religion did.
Jews are a religion not a race.
Islam are a religion not a race.
Christians are a religion not a race.
Anyone can become a Jew or Islam or Christian, religion is not a race.
 

Reggie Belafonte

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Christianity is not Israel. The Jews certainly are under the judgement of God, but they are not destroyed as you say. The Church, the Body of Christ is a product of the Abrahamic Covenant just as Israel is also. That does not mean Israel 'transformed' into Christianity.

To indicate that anyone who disagrees with your statement is of satan, is foolish.

Stranger
Israel means the Servants of God, the OT is finished and Christians use it as a blueprint, Jesus Christ has come 2000 years ago and he is the King of the Jews, end of story, that proves that Christianity is Israel.
The RCC has pointed this out, made the claim always and they or any other professing to be Christian must claim so, if not who the hell are they then ? anyone who rejects that Christianity is not Israel is directly rejecting Jesus Christ.
The two Sticks Israel and Judah came back together with Christ Jesus, they are one in him.
The worship of the OT is worthless and finished, Jesus Christ is the Temple, not made of mans works, the poor Jews are lost, they have to come to Jesus Christ, he is the beginning and the end, nothing will ever trump him ever, why do you look back, such as one who was turned into salt.
The Jews have nothing to offer Jesus but Jesus has everything to offer them, he does not need the OT because he owns it.
The Tree of Israel and those grafted in ? well they who are true to the OT will be grafted back in, Jesus is that Tree from the beginning.
How can the ones who rejected the corner stone be of any worth until they accept Jesus, what do you think will take place with following such fools. such is a rejection of Christ Jesus directly and such is a work of Satan, Satan means the one who leads all astray, only dogs go back to their own vomit.
Don't idolise a so called race or Religion it's folly, their is only one and the fact is it's Jesus Christs who is King of Kings and the Light of the World for ever, the works of man never did cut it and never will.
Look only to Christ Jesus and don't get off track with hogwash that just temps you with rubbish.
If you want to be tempted with all the hogwash so be it, but it only proves you have little faith in Jesus Christ.
 

Triumph1300

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Well...you are dead wrong.
I'm a member of the Friends of Israel Gospel Ministry Inc. and I read their bimonthly magazine "Israel My Glory".
And they tell me a very different story than what you are posting.

But it's ok.
To each it's own.
I'm not getting further on this issue.
I sense anger coming my way.
 
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Stranger

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Israel means the Servants of God, the OT is finished and Christians use it as a blueprint, Jesus Christ has come 2000 years ago and he is the King of the Jews, end of story, that proves that Christianity is Israel.
The RCC has pointed this out, made the claim always and they or any other professing to be Christian must claim so, if not who the hell are they then ? anyone who rejects that Christianity is not Israel is directly rejecting Jesus Christ.
The two Sticks Israel and Judah came back together with Christ Jesus, they are one in him.
The worship of the OT is worthless and finished, Jesus Christ is the Temple, not made of mans works, the poor Jews are lost, they have to come to Jesus Christ, he is the beginning and the end, nothing will ever trump him ever, why do you look back, such as one who was turned into salt.
The Jews have nothing to offer Jesus but Jesus has everything to offer them, he does not need the OT because he owns it.
The Tree of Israel and those grafted in ? well they who are true to the OT will be grafted back in, Jesus is that Tree from the beginning.
How can the ones who rejected the corner stone be of any worth until they accept Jesus, what do you think will take place with following such fools. such is a rejection of Christ Jesus directly and such is a work of Satan, Satan means the one who leads all astray, only dogs go back to their own vomit.
Don't idolise a so called race or Religion it's folly, their is only one and the fact is it's Jesus Christs who is King of Kings and the Light of the World for ever, the works of man never did cut it and never will.
Look only to Christ Jesus and don't get off track with hogwash that just temps you with rubbish.
If you want to be tempted with all the hogwash so be it, but it only proves you have little faith in Jesus Christ.

Nice speech. But no substance. Israel is not Christianity. Israel is not the Church. See, I can say things too.

Stranger
 

amadeus

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And mine is a bit sparser than this. The picture was taken on my 70th birthday a little over 4 years ago. My beard would be quite gray and perhaps white. I had a beard when I met and married my wife, but she finally asked me to shave. How could I say no?
Give God the glory!
 
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Reggie Belafonte

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Well...you are dead wrong.
I'm a member of the Friends of Israel Gospel Ministry Inc. and I read their bimonthly magazine "Israel My Glory".
And they tell me a very different story than what you are posting.

But it's ok.
To each it's own.
I'm not getting further on this issue.
I sense anger coming my way.
Who is it that you are looking to ?
I am Israel a servant of God, Jesus is the only way and I believe in him only, I do not turn to mans works at all and I read the Bible.
 

Reggie Belafonte

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Not to you, that's for sure.
But mans works I suppose ? the Jews have nothing to offer, what is it that you seek to find outside of Jesus Christ, are you looking to add to Jesus, do you think Jesus left out something ?
The Jews missed the bus 2000 years ago, what makes you think such will trump Jesus Christ with anything.
Mans works are but filthy rags !
You need the Holy Spirit and they you will wake up out of this looking to mans works nonsense.
The only Jews that are worthy of anything are the ones who embrace Holy Moses and follow and live the OT and that's only about 10% of them that are worthy.
The So called Zionist Jews and Talmud Jew is worthless filth worthy only of Satan, they will only bring misery to man, there number is 666 read your Bible what does it say that so called Star truly is, come on now tell me what does the Bible say that so called star is they idolise.
Do you even know. maybe ask your gospel Mob where to find where it is written, seek and you shall find bro, but there are many will try to lead you astray. the Bible points it out bro, not me.
 

Reggie Belafonte

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You don't have a clue what I think.
And stop putting words into other peoples mouths.




Don't call me "bro" please.
Tel me what you think and why because I don't have a clue why you are idolising, something that I think is worthless, I have heard that some want to bring on WW3 so that they claim will hasten Christ return who peddle this Jews for jesus nonsense.
I have met some here in Australia who push that line with the belief that they are to cause trouble here on earth and then they will be raptured away safely, so they don't have to go through the hell they have caused.
I believe people who go against or are not abiding on Jesus are going to Hell.

Why is it you don't like to be called a brother in Christ, don't you see it that way, have you anger in your brothers in Christ, remember Cain ?
Please can I help you to see Jesus Christ is the only way, no one come to the Father but through his Son, the OT can not cut it, one needs Jesus Christ first and foremost in ones life and to live in him only.
I believe in the Bible, please show me where the Jews Saved anyone.
Salvation comes from the Jews ? yes through Jesus as he was the Bigging and the End.
 

Triumph1300

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I believe in the Bible, please show me where the Jews Saved anyone.


There you go again.
Putting things in my mouth.
I never said such a thing.

And the rest of your post is also plain garbage because I never said anything like that either.

This is exactly why I don't want you to call me "bro".
You are an outright liar not worth responding to anymore.
 
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Reggie Belafonte

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There you go again.
Putting things in my mouth.
I never said such a thing.

And the rest of your post is also plain garbage because I never said anything like that either.

This is exactly why I don't want you to call me "bro".
You are an outright liar not worth responding to anymore.
Tell me where is the lie that I have said.