Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[BreadOfLife]

Nope.....
Eph.2;
8 For by GRACE are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

And unless you cooperate with that grace, as outlined in post #2697 - you cannot hope to be saved.

We don't get to sit on our butts and do whatever pleases OUR will.
We must conform to GOD'S will (Matt. 7:21).

 

[Grams]

And unless you cooperate with that grace, as outlined in post #2697 - you cannot hope to be saved.

We don't get to sit on our butts and do whatever pleases OUR will.
We must conform to GOD'S will (Matt. 7:21).

What ?????? GOD"S there is only GOD --- ONE " 1" .............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[BreadOfLife]

What ?????? GOD"S there is only GOD --- ONE " 1" .............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you familiar with the English language??
"God's" is the singular possessive of "God". I wasn't referring to multiple gods.

I said that you must submit to GOD'S will.

 

[Grams]

Sorry I miss understood...... was in a hurry ! I guess........

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Oh. The division in hell, was per a GULF.
On one side was Abraham's soul, and other saved souls with him, in comfort.
On the other side was a rich man, who had not faith, was not saved, and in torments.



Yes.



No. Our body's come out of the dust of the earth, die, and return to the earth to rot and again become dust.

Our Living souls depart our dying bodies and...go to heaven and wait for our new bodies....or go to helll and wait for judgement.




Yes. Adams body was formed from the dust of the earth, and PLACED in the Garden, which was PARADISE, because the Tree of Life was there. The Tree of Life was AVAILIBLE for Adam to eat....He didn't.

The Tree of Life....ONCE receive by a man...
It is that man WHO has received FOREVER Life From God.



Yes. Spiritually understanding....YES.
Physically manifested for human eyes....NO.



Earthly human bodies did not come from heaven, nor go to heaven.

Living souls, come from Gods Breath.
Living souls, are imparted and departed in and out of BODIES.

For those who become BORN AGAIN...
Their natural spirit of a mans seed...
Becomes born again of Gods Seed BY the Power of Gods Spirit.

Bodies die, go to the grave, return to dust.

Living souls, depart dead bodies;
...saved souls USE to go to the comfort side of hell, with Abraham, and WAIT for the Lord.
...unsaved souls USE to and STILL go to the torment side of hell, and WAIT for Judgement.

Since the Lord's soul WENT to the comfort side of hell, AFTER He left, so also could the living saved souls LEAVE hell, and go to heaven, where they NOW wait for their new bodies.....and so also do all men who are saved And NOW die, their living soul goes to heaven and WAIT.

The spirits of Born Again men, ALSO go to heaven, to Gods Hands, once their body dies.
There they ALSO are in WAITING, for their body to be resurrected and glorified in a new body.

When the Lord "returns", (2nd coming)....
He descends FROM Heaven...
TO the clouds.
While IN THE clouds, He shall call up the ....
Living bodies, that believe in Him...their saved soul and born again spirit are still within them...their bodies are raised up to the clouds glorified and changed.
And then He shall...
Call up the Dead bodies, that believe in Him...
The Lord shall have WITH HIM, the living souls and living spirits of the dead bodies, which have been RAISED from the DEAD, and raised IN their glorified / changed bodies....
And their living saved souls and born again spirits re-IMPARTED into their NOW glorified bodies.

God Bless,
Taken

Oh the great Gulf, I just never heard of it called the comfort side.

The Clouds refer to his majesty.

 

[Taken]

Oh the great Gulf, I just never heard of it called the comfort side.

The Clouds refer to his majesty.

Scriptures do not say comfort side or torment side.

Scripture says there is a DIVISION.
On one side is those in torment on the other WAS those in comfort with Abraham.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Scriptures do not say comfort side or torment side.

Scripture says there is a DIVISION.
On one side is those in torment on the other WAS those in comfort with Abraham.

God Bless,
Taken

Yes there is a great void between.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Sadly in my 3 decades with the Lord, this is what I find in one form or another, regardless of which fellowship I have attended........I remember when one of my children were quite little and wanting to try to do something I already knew she couldn't do...But it was always better for me to let her give it a go, and then ask :" Are you done?"..Then when SHE came to the realization she couldn't do that herself, she was better at receiving my help.
I think all of us have a bit of that in us, wanting to show our Lord how good we are, or how much we can do, even from a right heart...I also think that He handles it all with His usual good humor and a wide smile........We are like children trying to tell a rocket scientist how to build a rocket to go to Mars, when we think we can speak on Gods behalf, at times when He hasn't instructed us to do so, nor made the Truth plain to us about a certain thing..
We must be so funny to Him at times....

It's been 13 years for me, and what do you know I still believe in the finished work of the cross, and I wasn't obedient yesterday either.

 

[Heb 13:8]

It refers to ALL, EVERY ONE as the WHETHER one did good or bad/wicked/evil.

Ernest, what passage(s) besides verse 10 in 2 Cor 5:1-10 is referring to nonbelievers. Can you show me?

The NT mentions ONE judgment where all, good and evil will stand before Christ's judgment seat. Here and in Romans 2:6 where "every man" will be judged according to his deeds/works and not according if he had faith only or not.

If there's only one judgment then please break down Rev 20:5 and Rev 20:11-15, and explain why the Bema Seat and the Great White throne are separated by a thousand years.

I never said it wasn't so this is yet another straw man. Youself and others are avoiding the issue and the issue is HOW was the thief saved and under WHAT LAW was the thief saved.

He was saved under the OT law by Christ personally forgiving his sins. Therefore it is not possible for anyone today to be saved exactly like the thief. (I give more information in my post to "Taken" on this)

Ok, so where do those who were saved under the OT law go when they die... Paradise, hell or Alabama?

NT faith INCLUDES baptism.
Ephesians 2:8----------------faith>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>saves
Peter 3:21-------------------baptism>>>>>>>>>>>>>saves

Since there is "one faith" Eph 4:4-5, one way to be saved no alternatives then a NT faith must and does include baptism.

Holy Spirit baptism Ernest, not H2O.

And under the OT law the thief did not have the shed blood of Christ to take away his sins as we do under the NT gospel. When Christ promised the thief paradise Christ had not died nor shed His blood nor had been resurrected from the dead therefore the thief could not believe Christ died for His sins or believe in His heart God "hath raised" Christ from the dead as required by Romans 10:9. The thief remains nothing but grasping for straws for those that push the man made teaching of faith only. As in my post to Taken, the faith onlyist must run back to the OT law to attempt to justify faith only for they cannot show one example under the NT gospel (Acts 2 forward) of anyone saved by faith only.

Then why did Jesus promise Paradise to the thief if Jesus knew he hadn't died yet? Can Jesus make such a claim? Are you a teacher of the law Ernest?

Mark 2:1-12 A few days later, when Jesus again entered Capernaum, the people heard that he had come home. 2They gathered in such large numbers that there was no room left, not even outside the door, and he preached the word to them. 3Some men came, bringing to him a paralyzed man, carried by four of them. 4Since they could not get him to Jesus because of the crowd, they made an opening in the roof above Jesus by digging through it and then lowered the mat the man was lying on. 5When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.” 6Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7“Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

8Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, “Why are you thinking these things? 9Which is easier: to say to this paralyzed man, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, take your mat and walk’? 10But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the man, 11“I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home.” 12He got up, took his mat and walked out in full view of them all. This amazed everyone and they praised God, saying, “We have never seen anything like this!”

God bless

 

[pia]

and I wasn't obedient yesterday either.

Well said

 

[Heb 13:8]

I believe Jesus's redemptive work was finished at the cross.
HOWEVER - if YOU believe that anybody was saved at the cross - you don't know Christ.

BOL, the only one's who are saved at the cross are those who believe and confess Rom 10:9.

To the religious there's always a "however" or "but"... so many trying to work for their salvation when scripture plainly states to work it out..

Phil 2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out (katergazomai) your salvation with fear and trembling,

katergazomai: to work out
Original Word: κατεργάζομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: katergazomai
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-er-gad'-zom-ahee)
Short Definition: I work out, produce, accomplish
Definition: I effect by labor, achieve, work out, bring about.

God bless, and may God help you tear down the walls of the Pharisee spirit.

 

[Taken]

It's been 13 years for me, and what do you know I still believe in the finished work of the cross, and I wasn't obedient yesterday either.

Most of Jesus' commands are directed TO the UNsaved, Not Born Again man.

So in fact, on what ever yesterday it was that you, As an UNsaved, Not born again man fulfilled Jesus' Commands You have already fulfilled your reasonable service TO the Lord!

Rom 12:1

God Bless,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

BOL, the only one's who are saved at the cross are those who believe and confess Rom 10:9.

To the religious there's always a "however" or "but"... so many trying to work for their salvation when scripture plainly states to work it out..

Phil 2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out (katergazomai) your salvation with fear and trembling,

katergazomai: to work out
Original Word: κατεργάζομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: katergazomai
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-er-gad'-zom-ahee)
Short Definition: I work out, produce, accomplish
Definition: I effect by labor, achieve, work out, bring about.

God bless, and may God help you tear down the walls of the Pharisee spirit.

Thank you for finally agreeing with me that we must cooperate with God's grace by posting Phil. 2:12.
This is the Catholic position.

Remember - TRUE faith = Belief + obedience.

 

[Taken]

Thank you for finally agreeing with me that we must cooperate with God's grace by posting Phil. 2:12.
This is the Catholic position.

Remember - TRUE faith = Belief + obedience.

Obedience to what exactly?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Obedience to what exactly?

Not to "what" - but to WHOM.
The answer is God.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Most of Jesus' commands are directed TO the UNsaved, Not Born Again man.

Nonsense.
ALL of Jesus' commands are for His followers.

John 14:15-17
“IF YOU LOVE ME, you will keep my commandments. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.

WHO loves Jesus??
His born-again followers.

WHO is indwelt with the "Helper" - the "Holy spirit"??
His born-again followers.

 

[Taken]

Not to "what" - but to WHOM.
The answer is God.

Obedience to What?
Laws?
Neighbors?
Rabbi's?
Apostles?

How do you teach WHAT a person is to OBEY?

 

[Taken]

Nonsense.

Believe,
Repent,
Become reconciled,
Ask,
Seek,
Knock,
Become born again....

Are all examples of Commands of Jesus "TO" the unsaved, not born again man.

So, you are in error. It is not nonsense.

ALL

of Jesus' commands are for His followers.

So? Why did you CHANGE THE FACTS?
I WAS NOT SPEAKING OF "FOLLOWERS".
I was speaking specifically of men UNsaved and NOT born again.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Obedience to What?
Laws?
Neighbors?
Rabbi's?
Apostles?

How do you teach WHAT a person is to OBEY?

Jesus said plainly:
John 14:15
“If you love me, you will keep my commandments."

WHAT did He command us to do?
John 13:34
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.

WHAT does this entail?
- Works of mercy and charity (Matt. 19:21, 25:31–46, Luke 18:22)

What ELSE did He say we had to do?
- Being baptized (Matt. 28:19-20, John 3:5, Rom. 2:29, Rom. 6:1-11, Col. 2:12-17, 1 Peter 3:21)
- Picking up our cross daily to follow him (Matt. 16:24, Luke 9:23)
- Obeying his commandments (John 14:15, 15:10)
- Doing the will of the Father (Matt. 7:21, James 1:22)
- We must suffer with Christ (Matt. 10:38, 16:24, Mark 8:34, John 12:24, Rom. 8:17, 2 Cor. 1:5-7, Eph. 3:13, Phil. 1:29, 2 Tim. 1:8, 1 Peter 2:19-21, 4:1-2)

We must also submit to the Authority of His Church (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12=15, John 20:21-23).

 

[BreadOfLife]

Believe,
Repent,
Become reconciled,
Ask,
Seek,
Knock,
Become born again....

Are all examples of Commands of Jesus "TO" the unsaved, not born again man.

So, you are in error. It is not nonsense.

So? Why did you CHANGE THE FACTS?
I WAS NOT SPEAKING OF "FOLLOWERS".
I was speaking specifically of men UNsaved and NOT born again.

EVERYTHING you listed above can be said of BOTH His born again followers AND the unbelievers.

We ALL must repent when we sin.
We ALL must become reconciled.
We ALL must ask.
We ALL must seek.
We ALL must knock.

Non-believers are not "commanded" to do anything.
ONLY the born-again believer is under the commandments of God.