Looking for advice: Can women be pastors

[Triumph1300]

 

[Truth]

Joyce Myers once responded to this very Question, Stating that She was able to Preach because Her Husband, Her Covering was always in the Front of the church, and by His Presence He allowed Her to Preach, So She was Preaching under He Husband's Covering!

 

[101G]

I'm looking for insight on this topic (not a debate) My family is Methodist and growing up I attended a Methodist church and women as pastors was accepted. Where I am living now, there is a huge church of Christ population (I live in a small town, not many church options) and after attending their church for the last few years this topic is still uncertain in my mind. Where I attend a female can't lead a prayer if there is a male present, nor teach a class if a male is in it. Any role that a woman "has authority" over a male they are not permitted to do.

I would appreciate any insight on these roles. I am not looking to debate the subject, I know it can be sensitive - just looking for some clarity. Thank you.

thank God for the Methodist church you attended eary in life. Yes woman can be pastors. and here are the verses to support this GREAT TRUTH.

Old Testament First
1. Jeremiah 3:15
2. Joel 2:28 & 29

New Testament
3. Acts chapter 2, for there are several scriptures there to put together.
4. 1 Corinthians 12:7-11

when one combine these scriptures together, one gets the solid foundation to stand on for "FEMALE PASTORS"

I'll be out for a few hours, but upon return I'll post my understanding of these scriptures. I will take you step by step so that you can see and know for yourself without a doubt that women can PASTOR, TEACH, and PREACH.

until then,

fell free to go over those scriptures.

PCY.

 

[Triumph1300]

Well.......I can say a few things about Joyce Myers.
But I don't.

 

[LC627]

thank God for the Methodist church you attended eary in life. Yes woman can be pastors. and here are the verses to support this GREAT TRUTH.

Old Testament First
1. Jeremiah 3:15
2. Joel 2:28 & 29

New Testament
3. Acts chapter 2, for there are several scriptures there to put together.
4. 1 Corinthians 12:7-11

when one combine these scriptures together, one gets the solid foundation to stand on for "FEMALE PASTORS"

I'll be out for a few hours, but upon return I'll post my understanding of these scriptures. I will take you step by step so that you can see and know for yourself without a doubt that women can PASTOR, TEACH, and PREACH.

until then,

Thank you!

fell free to go over those scriptures.

PCY.

 

[Truth]

Well.......I can say a few things about Joyce Myers.
But I don't.

Well Said lol

 

[101G]

To LC627,

I'll post this in steps, with the limit of 1,000 character I'll put it in two Posts. but you can copy and paste them into one on your computer for you reading.

Back in 2008 I was confronted with this same topic, and had to go to God for the answer.

To fully understand this question of “female pastors”, one must understand what a pastor is. the traditional definition is a leader, usually male, who Shepard God flock. meaning the person who charge is to care for the flock. but is pastor, or pastoring, (which is a bishop position), an office, or a gift? traditionally, it has been view as an office in the western world of thought and mind. this view is incorrect, there is no word in the Hebrew representing office as we see it. in the Hebrew mindset, it’s a work/deed, a function, or a position of service, (see W.E. Vines Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words on office), which we will see later. but let’s find out what a pastor is, from the bible prospective.

Question: Pastors, that are in the body of Christ, (the church). are they, A. Called. B. Sent, or C. Given? I’m speaking biblically of pastors, not preachers, teachers, or Evangelist etc.... meaning not of the tradition men. My answer would be C. Given? let’s see it according to God’s Holy Word. Starting with Jeremiah 3:15 God give us the work of the pastor. "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding". here we see in the old testament pastors are to be given (a gift). what about the new testament? Ephesian 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ”.

so, speaking of pastors only, we can see clearly that Pastors are given, it's a gift, not a position. again, we are talking about Pastors/bishops here, not what are called preachers, apostles, or prophets, etc..... but Pastors. according to Jeremiah 3:15 pastors are given to do a work, or task which is to, “feed the flock of God with knowledge and understanding,” why? so that the child of God is no longer tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and their cunning craftiness”.

we now know, and have establish by the scriptures, that Pastors are given (which is a gift) from God own heart. to be sure in your own mind read again Jeremiah 3:15. it is a gift of God/the Holy Spirit himself. this gift was promise to us according to the prophet Joel, in chapters 2, verses 28 & 29. let’s see what was promise us and all that God will call. but keep in mind Jeremiah 3:15. now Joel 2:28 & 29 “And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit, saith the LORD”.

"Reproofing that Prophet only prophesy"​

most misconception is that prophets only predict, or foretell the future, by God. that’s not all true. let’s break this first taboo by scriptures. in verse 28, the word prophesy, means to speak, talk, or to preach, and correctly to teach. we all know the story of Jonah in the belly of, a great fish. some say the whale. we all know that he is a prophet, this is the point. what did he do as a prophet? after refusing to go to Nineveh the first time, and the LORD putting him in the belly of the Great fish, (three days and three nights), what happen next? Jonah changed his mind and obeyed God. so, what was his mission at Nineveh? lets pick up the conversation at Jonah 3:1. "And the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the second time, saying, 2 Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee”. so here, we clearly see that the prophet Jonah preached. Prophets then, …… as well as today, not only foretell future events, but PREACH the word of God in discourse. this breaks that old taboo that prophet only foretell or predict the future, we have scriptures that prophets preached throughout the bible, but I used this one because it's so well known. at the end of this topic is the word power section, one will be given a better understand of prophesy.

but here in Jonah case, we see that prophets also preached. and there was a many of female prophets in the bible. this is step #1. in getting to female or women Pastors. first we tare down barriers.

"Making the connection"​

The Holy Ghost Teaches,

The fulfillment of Joel 2:28 & 29, and female Pastors.

In Jeremiah 3:15 God is giving pastors, and in Joel 2, God is going to pour out his Spirit, (on all flesh). This is very important in understanding pastors. this out-pouring of his Spirit happen or was fulfilled on Pentecost.

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Acts 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Acts 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance”.

The Apostles are speaking with other tongues. hold that thought. forward a few verses to Acts 2:16. the apostle Peter said,” but this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel”. here the apostle Peter is clearly identifying that as to what was happening here at Pentecost, this, (speaking in tongues), is that which was spoke/foretold by the prophet Joel. now Act 2:17 “And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens, I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy”. this is the fulfillment of Joel 2:28 & 29 on the day of Pentecost is now realized on the day of Pentecost .

Question time listen closely. if this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel, then I have a question? why is the apostle Peter speaking, (preaching) in other tongues? is there anything in Joel 2:28 & 29 that says anything about speaking in other tongues? .........YES, or may I say a resounding YES. let’s look a little closer, with the wisdom from God through his eyes, and seeing the spiritual revelation. what is listed in Joel 2:28 & 29, can you agree, that, 1. prophesy, 2. dream, 3. visions, are mention in Joel correct? so why are they, (the apostles), speaking with other tongues? is speaking in tongues listed in Joel 2:28 & 29. look at those verses and tell if you see “speaking in tongues” there. Congratulations, if you see it in Joel 2:28 & 29, if so, then come to the head of the class, (for it is there, only hidden to the naked eye, and the natural mind). one can only see “speaking in tongues” in Joel 2, with their Spiritual eyes, and here is the answer to Joel 2;28 & 29. The answer is found in Act 2:4 “And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance”.

so now we can see why Peter was speaking in other tongues. it was the gift of the Holy Spirit that did it. The prophet Joel said that God would pour out his Spirit. and that is just what God did. and by his Spirit, the apostles were able to speak in tongues. by the giving of the Spirit, it is one of the gift of the Holy Spirit that enables one to speak in tongues. in Joel chapter 2, that’s why we didn’t see it physically in words, “speaking in tongues”. because “speaking in tongues” is in the Spirit that was poured out as, (a GIFT). our natural eyes will never see this. the gift of other tongues was in the out pouring of the Holy Spirit. let’s see it clearly.

 

[101G]

Step III: The Revelation of the Mystery​

Now that we know that it was the gifts of, or the out pouring of the Spirit, question. “what are the gifts of the Holy Spirit and are these gifts in Joel? yes, scripture cannot lie, or be broken, so let’s look at all the Gifts of the Spirit and see what was in the Spirit that was not seen, physically in Joel 2:28 & 29, and poured out in Acts. this will be revealed by God’s wisdom and his holy apostles, so that now we can see it physically.

1 Corinthians Chapter 12, verses 4-11
1Co 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1Co 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; (stop ther's the gift Peter spoke in. yes, other tongues. let’s go on), to another the interpretation of tongues:
1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

In verse 10 above we see the gift of divers kinds of tongues, which is a gift, that enable the apostles to speak in other tongue on the Day of Pentecost. So the GIFT of tongues was in the Spirit, which was poured out and foretold by the prophet Joel. so the actual words, physically "other tongues" is not printed in Joel for the natural eye to see, but is printed in Joel 2:28 & 29 for the spiritual eyes to see. see, the bible is Spiritual, and must be understood spiritually.

Step IV: The revelation of female pastors.​

Just as one did not see "speaking in other tongues" in Joel 2: 28 & 29, neither did one see the Pastoral Gift...... . now we know what to do let's find the pastor, or the pastoral "gift".
Knowing this, (the speaking of other tongues is in the Spirit). Can one now see the female Pastors in Joel chapter 2, verses 28 & 29? If not, knowing that all the gifts, (and Pastor is a gift) are in the Spirit, look at verse 8 of chapter 12 here in 1 Corinthians. the MYSTERY is about to be revealed, and understood about pastors, female pastors.

Listen, 1 Corinthians 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1 Corinthians 12:8 "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit". STOP, did you see the pastoral Gift?. what is the word of wisdom? notice, the scriptures didn't say what “is” wisdom, but the word “of” wisdom. in layman's terms, what is the product, or result of a word “of” wisdom? it means understanding, question, if I speak a word of wisdom (Prudence) to you, what will happen? you will gain understandings. Now, we have the gift of knowledge and the gift of understanding (Prudence/Wisdom) in the very first list of Gift given by the Holy Spirit. please re-read 1 Corinthians Chapter 12 verse 8 again and look again at what God said in Jeremiah 3:15, "And I will give (the promise gift, the Spirit) you pastor according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding". there you have it. in 1 Corinthians 12:8 the very first gift on the list is the PASTORAL Gift. Pastoring is a gift of God, (the Spirit, God himself in the person), that was poured out on Pentecost, (as Peter was filled), and available to us today. TODAY? Yes, today. scripture acts 2:39 "For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call”. question, "is God still "CALLING" people unto himself "TODAY"? yes. understand, one is called into the body, and his or her gift, (in this case as pastor), is given to them to do a work. and this work as PASTOR is to feed his, (God), flock with Knowledge, and understanding. just as the prophet Jeremiah stated in 3:15, now confirmed by the apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 12:8. Pastoring is a GIFT of God, not a calling, or a sending, but a "given" work of the ministering gift of God in his chosen people/vessel. for a pastor must have God Spirit/the GIFT in him, or her to Pastor. that GIFT is listed as the very first gift in 1 Corinthians chapter 12:8 read those scriptures for your edification. it is the person, or vessel who receive these gifts by God filling them with his Spirit, empowering them. God is no respecter of person.

God, our Lord Jesus, the Christ, give gifts to men, and the term men is not in gender (be ye male or female). supportive scripture, Ephesians 4:8 "Wherefore he saith, when he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men”. men, biblically speaking here, means generic, male and female. which prove that the gift of God is for males and females, women also.
Can we make the connection between the gifts promised in Joel chapter 2 and the realization of their use in Acts chapter 2, and theirs listing in 1 Corinthians 12 which is now confirmed? question, “how the female come into play with these gifts?”. since the Apostle Peter stated that, "this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel. question, who qualify for these Gifts. The answer, Joel 2:28(a) "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy”. All flesh do not mean the world, no, but all the flesh in the “body of Christ”, meaning God is no respecter of person. Prophesy is to preach and to teach, but the pastor break down the mysteries, it is the work of the ministry. Pastoring is a teaching/preaching, a (feeding, with Knowledge and Understanding)) task. he, or SHE who feed the flock of God, as Jeremiah 3:15 states, is the vessel, of the TRUE AND ONLY PASTOR, God himself, who is the head of his church. and he, (GOD), is that gift that enables his vessel whom he chooses to teach, and or preach his word, meaning to feed his flock.

Step V: No Respect of Person
according to 1 Corinthians 12:29 "[Are] all apostles? [are] all prophets? [are] all teachers? [are] all workers of miracles? 30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?”. the answer is NO, supporting scripture, 1 Corinthians 12:11 "But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will”. again, it’s God choosing, and he is no respecter of person. for in him there is neither male, or female. Supportive scripture, Galatians 3:27 "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus”.

Now, if God gave the pastoral gift, himself, the spirit only to men then that's his choosing. But he said in his word that there is no male and female in him, is he a respecter of person? NO. Acts 10:34 "Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons”

Deuteronomy 10:17 "For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward”.

Conclusion: using these scriptures above we now by the Spirit can clearly see that women can PREACH, TEACH and PASTOR the body of Christ.

Next post we will see a FEMALE pastor/Bishop right in plain sight in the bible.

until next post.

PCY

 

[LC627]

@101G

Thank you for your rely and the great insight that you offered through your time of study! I never thought of the role as a pastor as a "gift".

 

[101G]

@101G

Thank you for your rely and the great insight that you offered through your time of study! I never thought of the role as a pastor as a "gift".

Thanks in Jesus Christ, Here are the Definition section

Most of my definition came from
1. Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments
2. Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words

Word Power, Definitions​

#1. Prophesy: this is a Hebrew word, H5012 נָבָא naba' (naw-baw') v.
1. to prophesy, i.e. speak (or sing) by inspiration (in prediction or simple discourse)
[a primitive root]
KJV: prophesy(-ing), make self a prophet.

Vine dictionary,
"Though much of OT prophecy was purely predictive, See Mic 5:2, e.g., and cp. John 11:51, prophecy is not necessarily, nor even primarily, fore-telling. It is the declaration of that which cannot be known by natural means, Matt 26:68, it is the forth-telling of the will of God, whether with reference to the past, the present, or the future, See Gen 20:7; Deut 18:18; Rev 10:11; Rev 11:3.

another word for Declare, or declaration is, A. publish, B. impart.
Let’s start with “impart”, it means to communicate (information), other words it means “TO TEACH”. scripture, Exodus 4:12 "Now therefore go, and I will be with thy mouth, and teach thee what thou shalt say”.

Publish: MEANS “TO PREACH”. O.T. scripture, Deuteronomy 32:3 "Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God. publish is the Hebrew word, H7121 קָרָא qara' (kaw-raw')
1. (properly) to call out to someone (but used in a wide variety of applications).
2. (generally) to call (or address) by name.
3. (specially) to call forth (a thing, action, or person).
4. (by extension) to officially proclaim.

5. (hence) to read aloud.
[a primitive root (rather identical with H7122 through the idea of accosting a person met)]
KJV: bewray (self), that are bidden, call (for, forth, self, upon), cry (unto), (be) famous, guest, invite, mention, (give) name, preach, (make) proclaim(- ation), pronounce, publish, read, renowned, say.



#2. discourse-noun 1. communication of thought by words; talk; conversation: earnest and intelligent discourse.
2. a formal discussion of a subject in speech or writing, as a dissertation, treatise, sermon, etc.
3. Linguistics. any unit of connected speech or writing longer than a sentence. verb (used without object)
4. to communicate thoughts orally; talk; converse.
5. to treat of a subject formally in speech or writing. verb (used with object)
6. to utter or give forth (musical sounds).

Now the New Testament,
Noun, G4394, propheteia
signifies the speaking forth of the mind and counsel of God" (pro, "forth," phemi, "to speak: in the NT it is used (a) of the gift. (b) either of the exercise of the gift or of that which is "prophesied.
" It is the declaration of that which cannot be known by natural means". it is the forth-telling of the will of God, whether with reference to the past, the present, or the future.
source cited, Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words.

#3. A Word of Wisdom is usually one short sentence that pierces with truth and relevance for the need. The word of wisdom is the supernatural gift, imparting insight to hone in on a core issue. It clears away the clutter by giving understanding and revealing the true nature of things.
**Word of Wisdom means understanding. See definition below.

G4678, sophia
is used with reference to (a) God, Rom 11:33; 1Cor 1:21,1Cor 1:24; 1Cor 2:7; Eph 3:10; Rev 7:12

Wisdom or Prudence:
Wisdom: [ 2,,G5428, phronesis ]
"understanding, prudence," i.e., a right use of phren, "the mind," is translated "wisom" in Luke 1:17. See PRUDENCE.

Note: "While sophia is the insight into the true nature of things, phronesis is the ability to discern modes of action with a view to their results; while sophia is theoretical, phronesis is practical". Sunesis, "understanding, intelligence," is the critical faculty; this and phronesis are particular applications of sophia.

Prudence: [ A-1,Noun,G5428, phronesis ]
akin to phroneo, to have understanding" (phren, "the mind"), denotes "practical wisdom, prudence in the management of affairs." It is translated "wisdom" in Luke 1:17; "prudence" in Eph 1:8. See WISDOM.


Prudence: [ A-2,Noun,G4907, sunesis ]
"understanding," is rendered "prudence" in 1Cor 1:19, RV (AV, "understanding"); it suggests quickness of apprehension, the penetrating consideration which precedes action. Cp. B, in the same verse. See KNOWLEDGE, UNDERSTANDING.

Now according to Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Greek and Hebrew Dictionaries
WISDOM:G5428 φρόνησις phronesis (fron'-ay-sis) n.
1. mental action or activity, i.e. intellectual or moral insight
[from G5426]
KJV: prudence, wisdom
Root(s): G5426

the root of the word, G5426 φρονέω phroneo (fron-eh'-o) v.
1. to exercise the mind, i.e. entertain or have a sentiment or opinion
2. (by implication) to be (mentally) disposed (more or less earnestly in a certain direction)
3. (intensively) to interest oneself in (with concern or obedience)
[from G5424]
If you would note Wisdom and Prudence have the same Greek word. So a word of Wisdom means understanding. Hence, in 1 Corinthians chapter 12 verse 8 is the Pastoral Gift.

now the ROOT, G5424 φρήν phren (frayn') n.
1. the midrif (as a partition of the body)
2. (figuratively and by implication of sympathy) the feelings or sensitive nature
3. (by extension, also in the plural) the mind or cognitive faculties
[probably from an obsolete phrao "to rein in or curb"]
KJV: understanding. THERE IS OUR WORD “understanding”.

 

[Phoneman777]

I'm looking for insight on this topic (not a debate) My family is Methodist and growing up I attended a Methodist church and women as pastors was accepted. Where I am living now, there is a huge church of Christ population (I live in a small town, not many church options) and after attending their church for the last few years this topic is still uncertain in my mind. Where I attend a female can't lead a prayer if there is a male present, nor teach a class if a male is in it. Any role that a woman "has authority" over a male they are not permitted to do.

I would appreciate any insight on these roles. I am not looking to debate the subject, I know it can be sensitive - just looking for some clarity. Thank you.

"A bishop must be blameless...the HUSBAND of one wife."

Although if is perfectly acceptable for women to serve other women in a ministerial capacity, it is not Biblical for a women to assume authority over men. God created men and women equal, but directed them to serve in different capacities.

 

[101G]

A woman "Pastor/Bishop" in the Church​

I'm going to give you the short version straight to the point.

“Phebe, the Bishop at ROME”

Foundation Scripture: Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus”.

Teaching Scripture: Romans 16:1 "I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea”.

Most christian prove, Phebe, to be a “Deacon”, at the church of Cenchrea, opens the door to women in ministry, which is a good approach. but this woman is a little different.

Romans 16:1 "I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea”. Apparently this woman was a faithful servant for the Lord at Cenchrea, because his words are true. Matthew 20:26 "But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; 27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant”. For her to be called a servant, this woman ministered unto to the saint at Cenchrea, and now the apostle is sending her to Rome. but the question is what role will she be in at Rome. Lets see, Romans 16:2 "That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also”. lets examine all the words that is associate with woman. In verse 2 the apostle Paul states that this woman is a “succourer”.

Now straight to the point.
what do the word succourer means? It is the Greek word,
G4368 προστάτις prostatis (pro-sta'-tis) n.
a patroness, i.e. assistant.
[feminine of a derivative of G4291]
KJV: succourer
Root(s): G4291

we will look at the very first definition: a patroness. it means a female guardian, protector, patroness, when used as a NOUN. What is a Guardian: defender, overseer, shepherd, superintendent, supervisor.
also a patroness is a female sponsor, elder.

this is according to Thayer's Greek Definitions
Transliteration: Prostatis
- Phonetic: pros-tat'-is
- Definition:
1. a woman set over others
2. a female guardian, protectress, patroness, caring for the affairs of others and aiding them with her resources
- Origin: from a derivative of G4291
- TDNT entry: None
- Part(s) of speech: Noun Feminine


This woman is shaping up as a bishop, but lets see the second part of the definition. the {feminine of a derivative of G4291}. Question, what is a derivative? something that is based on another source. so this term "succourer" is what a male do by a "FEMALE". so let's see what the male do in this position.
Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments
G4291?, προΐστημι proistemi (pro-iy'-stee-miy) v.
1. to stand before.
2. (in rank) to preside.
3. (by implication) to practise.
[from G4253 and G2476]
KJV: maintain, be over, rule

Now Thayer's Greek Definitions, G4291 προΐστημι proistemi,
1. to set or place before
a. to set over
b. to be over, to superintend, preside over
c. to be a protector or guardian
1. to give aid
d. to care for, give attention to
1. profess honest occupations

From the above two definition, our sister Phebe is a female in the same position, or function as a male in the same position or function. Lets look at a bishop from the above two definitions.

Bishop: G1984 ἐπισκοπή episkope (e-piy-sko-pee') n.
1. inspection (for relief).
2. (by implication) superintendence.
3. (specially) the Christian “episcopate.”

Definition #2 states superintendence, just What G4291 (the Male) do in that position. And our sister Phebe is the “feminine of G4291”. A female bishop.

so can we back up this "Female Bishop" in scriptures, I say YES. supportive scripture, Romans 16:3 "Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus".

according to Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments
the term here "helpers" is,
G4904 συνεργός sunergos (sïn-er-ğos') adj.
a co-laborer, i.e. coadjutor.

now what is a coadjutor. if one is Catholic they would know right off the bat. but for those who don't know, let's go to dictionary.com and see the definition.

coadjutor:
noun 1. an assistant. 2. an assistant to a bishop or other ecclesiastic. 3. a bishop who assists another bishop, with the right of succession.

there we have it. Priscilla and Aquila are BISHOPS who are helpers/coadjutor to Paul in his ordaining our sister Phebe as BISHOP at ROME.

well som might say Paul was an apostle, yes he was but he is also a BISHOP/Pastor.

one might say, "where is that at in the bible", glad you asked. remember from Jeremiah 3:15 "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding". let's see if this is what Paul the apostle did. scripture,

1 Corinthians 13:1 "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

1 Corinthians 13:2 "And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing".

there he is as Pastor, "knowledge", and "understanding" . just what God said a pastor suppose to do, "which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding". plain as day

Side NOTE: look at 1 Corinthians 13:2 above, "the gift of prophecy" Paul was a prophet also... . see, prophecy is a "GIFT".

are we re-newing our minds now? the scriptures don't change, nor are they broken.

Conclusion. the apostle Paul ordain a FEMALE BISHOP at the start up of the Church at ROME, ROME first Bishop, a "FEMALE".

this was right under our noses..... .


PCY

 

[101G]

"A bishop must be blameless...the HUSBAND of one wife."

Although if is perfectly acceptable for women to serve other women in a ministerial capacity, it is not Biblical for a women to assume authority over men. God created men and women equal, but directed them to serve in different capacities.

I'm glade you asked that question

the husband of one WIFE if he's married, but not Married to two or MORE.

and Point 2. the apostle Paul was not Married, see my post #32. for a pastor is a BISHOP. so if what you said is true, (which it is not), then the Pastor/Bishop Paul would not be a Bishop. but he is so that statement is false.

PCY.

 

[Truth7t7]

Please answer the questions I raised.
How is a woman to guide her sons in spiritual maters?
If a new Christian is talking about false doctrine he believes and is leading others astray, is a woman, who is a mature experience Christian, to be silent?

As for being silent in church. Please read the context, which makes it clear that Paul is talking/reaching about women asking their husbands questions about the sermon. In which case the quote has nothing to do with whether women can teach or not.

A question for you.

The missionary societies your church supports, how many single women are serving as missionary preachers and teachers in that society?

A woman is to keep silent in the church, she is to learn from her husband at home.

Pastors And Deacons Are To Be Married men.

Pastors And Deacons Are To Be Married Men, Of Good Report, Ruling Their Own Houses Well.

1 Timothy 3:1-13KJV
3 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

A woman is to remain silent in the Church service, at no time within the Church does a woman exercise authority over the man.

1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

A woman is to obey and love her husband and family, be a home maker, simple.

Titus 2:3-5KJV
3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

 

[Willie T]

No! A woman has to remain the subservient, sub-human the organization that YOU yourself have chosen to place yourself under the subjection of, says they must remain.

Don't try to lay the blame on any organism YOU have chosen to remain a part of. You knew who and what they were before you signed on the dotted line. Yet, you still signed. I was CoC and I left because I saw not only that, but a lot more. You can too.

 

[101G]

People are we learning anything?

we must do as the bible states, Romans 12:2 "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God".

Ephesians 4:22 "That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Ephesians 4:23 "And be renewed in the spirit of your mind".

this only comes by the teaching of the Holy Ghost.
1 Corinthians 2:12 "Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

1 Corinthians 2:13 "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

1 Corinthians 2:14 "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned".

PCY

 

[LC627]

No! A woman has to remain the subservient, sub-human the organization that YOU yourself have chosen to place yourself under the subjection of, says they must remain.

Don't try to lay the blame on any organism YOU have chosen to remain a part of. You knew who and what they were before you signed on the dotted line. Yet, you still signed. I was CoC and I left because I saw not only that, but a lot more. You can too.

I'm not CoC, There is literally not many options where we live. For the time being we have to do what we can until I graduate in December and possibly relocate.

 

[Phoneman777]

I'm glade you asked that question

the husband of one WIFE if he's married, but not Married to two or MORE.

and Point 2. the apostle Paul was not Married, see my post #32. for a pastor is a BISHOP. so if what you said is true, (which it is not), then the Pastor/Bishop Paul would not be a Bishop. but he is so that statement is false.

PCY.

Paul was an APOSTLE. My statement is true: a woman is not to serve as a church pastor.

 

[101G]

A woman is to keep silent in the church, she is to learn from her husband at home.

Pastors And Deacons Are To Be Married men.

Pastors And Deacons Are To Be Married Men, Of Good Report, Ruling Their Own Houses Well.

1 Timothy 3:1-13KJV
3 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

A woman is to remain silent in the Church service, at no time within the Church does a woman exercise authority over the man.

1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

A woman is to obey and love her husband and family, be a home maker, simple.

Titus 2:3-5KJV
3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Let's address this "A woman is to remain silent in the Church service" you used, 1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV let's get that one first.

the first problem you have is this.
#1. the term "Woman" here in 1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV is speaking of wives ONLY, not all women. listen,

WOMEN: G1135 γυνή gune (ǰ ï-nee') n.
1. a woman.
2. (specially) a wife.

How do we know that woman here is definition #2? just read the scripture, verse 35 "And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church". HUSBAND? yes husband, the only "woman" who have a "husband is a married one, "A WIFE", just as definition #2 states.

and your next problem is this.

#2. the apostle Paul was not even speaking to the "wives"/women, no he was speaking to their HUSBAND. listen, verse 34 "Let your women keep silence in the churches". who was the apostle speaking to? those women/wives husband.

look, if I said to you, "keep your children quite in the library". who am I speaking to... YOU about "YOUR" children. here the Apostle Paul was speaking to the HUSBAND of these out of turn spoken wives. now keep that in mind because it directly affect what he says in 1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
see, the HUSBAND is supposed to TEACH his wife at home (1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV) before that speak in church. a husband duty is to TEACH his wife the thing of God so that they can speak the same thing. in 1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV that was the confusion. the wife gets up and say one thing just opposite of what here husband just said, that confusion. it's an embarrassment to the HUSBAND, and that's why the apostle address the husband, "Let YOUR" remain silent. and why "remain silent?". until here husband TEACH her properly. it is the burden of the Husband to TEACH his OWN wife, hence 1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV.

another thing, a husband don't "RULE" his wife, but LEAD her in LOVE, supportive scripture,
Hope this helped. Genesis 3:16 "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee". NOT "RULE" thee, but rule "OVER" meaning to protect, guide, and lead. and this is by "PERMISSION". like in asking your wife for permission to protect, guide and LOVE her more that your OWN self. oh yes, lay down your life for her. I know, "WHERE IS THAT IN THE BIBLE. here it is, Ephesians 5:25 "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it"......... Love your wife that much, ... as husband you should.

conclusion: it is the HUSBAND who is at fault, by not teaching their "OWN" wives the things of God at HOME First before they come to church.

PCY.

 

[101G]

Paul was an APOSTLE. My statement is true: a woman is not to serve as a church pastor.

#1. Paul was an apostle, a prophet, and a teacher. which means he's a BISHOP. the term "Bishop" is another name for Pastor or Elder.
as I pointed out, Paul is a Pastor. 1 Corinthians 13:2 "And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing".

here the apostle just said that he was a. a pastor, he understand all mysteries, and have all knowledge". a Pastor have knowledge and understanding, per Jer 3:15, scriptures don't lie.

PS, WHO SAID, "a woman is not to serve as a church pastor"?. book chapter and verse please