Confusion

[verzanumi24]

Let me ask you something: You have 740 posts. That means you've been here awhile. Why all the concern now? Have things gotten more divisive lately that it has become a bigger issue?

I was learning and observing.

 

[verzanumi24]

Not always. I have seen many people admit to being taught things on Forums that they didn't know before, and I've also seen some people outright change their positions on a subject thanks to someone's post.

But that requires the humility to admit to occasionally being wrong, and it's fairly rare.

A few, yes. But that's not the norm or the majority and some are only willing to learn so far and no father.

 

[verzanumi24]

For starters, those who logged on to the Forum curious about Christianity but saw the bickering and infighting and because they did not have any backbone for handling it just decided to leave. You alluded to this yourself (see Post #9).


Probably not many, because of the above reasons.


I'm not trying to preach the gospel here. I'm in fellowship with other believers here. Am I trying to instruct others in the word? Most certainly, Yes. And that applies to anyone who reads my posts.


I have addressed some issues very sternly on this forum already, and I've been here only a short time. But I am not in charge of something like excommunication. That is more of a moderator or staff member role. I have noticed that they have shut down certain forums because they were becoming too divisive.

You still seem to be under this impression that the enemy cannot use anyone who names the name of Christ. Is this true or no?

I don't blame them for leaving. They already have enough of that in the world around them.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I was learning and observing.

Good. What you will eventually learn is that you have to go into places like Christian forums with your armor on, or you will be in trouble. It is unfortunately not a place to go to get healing unless you establish Christian friends that you can go to in private. Satan is constantly seeking to sow discord among the brethren, and I can take you to two entire epistles where he was succeeding at it greatly. So you have to go in prepared for such things. Is it what God wants? Of course not. But the spiritual war around us is something you have to always be prepared for. If you go in with any other expectation you are going to become a casualty.

I don't blame them for leaving. They already have enough of that in the world around them.

Yes, I understand, but anyone who loves the truth must be prepared to fight for it, and if necessary endure strife and rejection from his own family to stand for it (Matthew 10:34-40). And again, as stated above, entire congregations were largely falling victim to this in NT times, so you have to able to stand strong in the midst of it and not abandon the post. This is not to say you should engage in debates unless you have mastered guarding your heart from becoming offended, but if you'll notice, there are actually many members here who have. They respond and defend what they believe to be the truth, but without becoming resentful over the way they are treated. This conforms to James 3:13, and speaks well of them.

 

[Truth]

Light and darkness don't occupy the same space, that's how I know.

How can darkness be divided without the presence of light? How can you say for certainty there is no peace here? Only division? If you feel led to leave though, then leave. There has been days where I felt the same. But I have learned a lot here that I would not have been shown otherwise.

I have to Agree with both of you, I have learned some here, I also have learned to take sharp arrow's, BUT I have also found that there are some rely well versed folks on this Forum, Some Make me Think, That"s Good } Some make me Laugh, That's Good } and there are Some that give me a rash, Not so good, BUT That is Life!

 

[verzanumi24]

How can darkness be divided without the presence of light? How can you say for certainty there is no peace here? Only division? If you feel led to leave though, then leave. There has been days where I felt the same. But I have learned a lot here that I would not have been shown otherwise.

I have to Agree with both of you, I have learned some here, I also have learned to take sharp arrow's, BUT I have also found that there are some rely well versed folks on this Forum, Some Make me Think, That"s Good } Some make me Laugh, That's Good } and there are Some that give me a rash, Not so good, BUT That is Life!

There is no light among confusion.

 

[verzanumi24]

Good. What you will eventually learn is that you have to go into places like Christian forums with your armor on, or you will be in trouble. It is unfortunately not a place to go to get healing unless you establish Christian friends that you can go to in private. Satan is constantly seeking to sow discord among the brethren, and I can take you to two entire epistles where he was succeeding at it greatly. So you have to go in prepared for such things. Is it what God wants? Of course not. But the spiritual war around us is something you have to always be prepared for. If you go in with any other expectation you are going to become a casualty.

I learn not to wast my time among confusion or at least limit it(stay long enough to see what's going on).

Yes, I understand, but anyone who loves the truth must be prepared to fight for it, and if necessary endure strife and rejection from his own family to stand for it (Matthew 10:34-40). And again, as stated above, entire congregations were largely falling victim to this in NT times, so you have to able to stand strong in the midst of it and not abandon the post. This is not to say you should engage in debates unless you have mastered guarding your heart from becoming offended, but if you'll notice, there are actually many members here who have. They respond and defend what they believe to be the truth, but without becoming resentful over the way they are treated. This conforms to James 3:13, and speaks well of them.

When those who claim to believe in the Bible but confusion is among them,they are not being a light and it makes christians a laughing stock to unbelievers.

 

[Hidden In Him]

When those who claim to believe in the Bible but confusion is among them, they are not being a light and it makes christians a laughing stock to unbelievers.

Yes, and this is what Satan is after. Listen, the way it is supposed to work is found in Colossians 3:
"Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, long-suffering; forbearing one another and forgiving one another if any man have a quarrel against any. Even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. And above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfectness. And let the peace of God arbitrate in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body, and be ye thankful." (Colossians 3:12-15).

The word arbitrate here is the key word. It means the same as "referee," as if there were a contest going on. Only among the saints of God (at least when everyone is allowed a voice, like on a Forum like this), it is going to be a contest of ideas, i.e. of doctrinal views. The command was for each believer, in spite of there being differences of opinion, to let the peace of God arbitrate in their heart, and not allow themselves to become nasty and bitter towards those who disagreed, but to instead honor the fact that they were still "called as one body." So long as they did this, the word of God would continue to grow richly among them (v.16-17).

It would be wonderful if all could "be a light" as you say, and those who endure mistreatment without retaliating are fulfilling this commandment. But we can't let those through whom the Devil is making us look "like a laughing stock" win by simply giving up, packing it in and all going home. Those strong in faith have a responsibility to stand regardless, and prove to both him and the world that there are at least some who will not relent and will not be defeated.

 

[verzanumi24]

Yes, and this is what Satan is after. Listen, the way it is supposed to work is found in Colossians 3:
"Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, long-suffering; forbearing one another and forgiving one another if any man have a quarrel against any. Even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. And above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfectness. And let the peace of God arbitrate in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body, and be ye thankful." (Colossians 3:12-15).

The word arbitrate here is the key word. It means the same as "referee," as if there were a contest going on. Only among the saints of God (at least when everyone is allowed a voice, like on a Forum like this), it is going to be a contest of ideas, i.e. of doctrinal views. The command was for each believer, in spite of there being differences of opinion, to let the peace of God arbitrate in their heart, and not allow themselves to become nasty and bitter towards those who disagreed, but to instead honor the fact that they were still "called as one body." So long as they did this, the word of God would continue to grow richly among them (v.16-17).

It would be wonderful if all could "be a light" as you say, and those who endure mistreatment without retaliating are fulfilling this commandment. But we can't let those through whom the Devil is making us look "like a laughing stock" win by simply giving up, packing it in and all going home. Those strong in faith have a responsibility to stand regardless, and prove to both him and the world that there are at least some who will not relent and will not be defeated.

None of what it says in Colossians 3:12-15 will be a reality if there's confusion among them. The kind of confusion that I see among christians on this and other christian forums never existed among the Church in the Bible.

 

[Hidden In Him]

The kind of confusion that I see among christians on this and other christian forums never existed among the Church in the Bible.

Then give me your interpretation of James 3:5-9.

 

[verzanumi24]

Then give me your interpretation of James 3:5-9.

Number 1) that wasn't about confusion or division and number 2), that's a general statement, and was not specifically about what was going on in the Church.

 

[Philip James]

How can darkness be divided without the presence of light? How can you say for certainty there is no peace here? Only division? If you feel led to leave though, then leave. There has been days where I felt the same. But I have learned a lot here that I would not have been shown otherwise.

I have to Agree with both of you, I have learned some here, I also have learned to take sharp arrow's, BUT I have also found that there are some rely well versed folks on this Forum, Some Make me Think, That"s Good } Some make me Laugh, That's Good } and there are Some that give me a rash, Not so good, BUT That is Life!

with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another through love,

striving to preserve the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace:

one body and one Spirit, as you were also called to the one hope of your call;

one Lord, one faith, one baptism;

one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Number 1) that wasn't about confusion or division and number

LoL. What on earth do you think he was talking about? The Joy of the Lord? Ha!

not specifically about what was going on in the Church.

Your responses are giving me the chuckles again.

No offense, verzanumi, but if that's your assessment of this passage then you aren't being honest with the word of God. He starts in verse one by commanding that there not be many teachers, and then addresses in verse 13 how to identify those who are the true teachers among them.

If that's not about what was going on in the church then I don't know what is.

Blessings in Christ.

Talk to you again sometime maybe.

 

[Truth]

There is no light among confusion.

Consider this, Was Our Savior the Light of the World! YES, and during His Ministry how many time did He Rebuke His Disciples, Saying ! " How long must I be with You, they also murmured, Among themselves. Human Nature has not changed in 2000 year's, Put on the Garment of Praise, give thank's take a deep breath, and stand. I am going to look forward to some good thing's from your understanding about the Faith!
I am going to put you on follow, Don't let me down, as I will Pray for our Savior to give you food for us!

 

[verzanumi24]

LoL. What on earth do you think he was talking about? The Joy of the Lord? Ha!


Your responses are giving me the chuckles again.

No offense, verzanumi, but if that's your assessment of this passage then you aren't being honest with the word of God. He starts in verse one by commanding that there not be many teachers, and then addresses in verse 13 how to identify those who are the true teachers among them.

If that's not about what was going on in the church then I don't know what is.

Blessings in Christ.

Talk to you again sometime maybe.

Paul was talking about controlling what one say. He said that all kinds of animals have been put under man's control, but yet, people can't control what comes out of their own mouth. There's nothing in the verse about confusion that was going on in the Church.


James 3:1-12 (KJV)
1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.
3 Behold, we put bits in the horses' mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body.
4 Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.
5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.

 

[verzanumi24]

Consider this, Was Our Savior the Light of the World! YES, and during His Ministry how many time did He Rebuke His Disciples, Saying ! " How long must I be with You, they also murmured, Among themselves. Human Nature has not changed in 2000 year's, Put on the Garment of Praise, give thank's take a deep breath, and stand. I am going to look forward to some good thing's from your understanding about the Faith!'t
I am going to put you on follow, Don't let me down, as I will Pray for our Savior to give you food for us!

The disciples weren't converted until the day of Pentecost, which was after Jesus was crucified and rose from the grave. Before that, they were still carnal and had issues that Jesus at times had to address. When one is converted, the Nature of God now resides in that person.

 

[Truth]

The disciples weren't converted until the day of Pentecost, which was after Jesus was crucified and rose from the grave. Before that, they were still carnal and had issues that Jesus at times had to address. When one is converted, the Nature of God now resides in that person.

That was Great I never gave it a thought, I must Agree, That was Tasty. Thank You

 

[verzanumi24]

That was Great I never gave it a thought, I must Agree, That was Tasty. Thank You

It's a common mistake.

 

[Nancy]

I'm just keeping it simple. If an unbeliever came on this site and read all the differing beliefs coming from the same people who claim to believe in the Bible, they would come to the conclusion that the forum is confusing. And since God is not the author of confusion, then if you are honest, you have to agree that God is not the author of what is going on on this forum or any christian forum where there's confusion.

Hi verzanumi,
It seems to me that pretty much all Christian forums just reflect the different teachings, beliefs, doctrines and such that are present in the world today. IMO, all these (potentially) divisive ideas were one of satans best achievements in so many way's: he sow's discord/makes the masses complacent/causes those of us in Christ to argue, bitterly sometimes! And, so on. Doesn't Jesus want us to love each other as He has loved us? Yeah, satan is having a heyday with "religion"
The Gospel is just too simple for some to grasp. It's all about what HE did for us, we are free indeed! We can be joyful even through our sadness! We can finally rest in the knowledge of these and many more things so, as long as we Christians can agree on the core beliefs of Jesus life, death and resurrection.
verzanumi, I would expect nothing less then this forum to have many differing opinions on how scripture is read/interpreted/used...although, does seem like most threads end up being a debate on here, lol!
God Bless!
-nancy

 

[verzanumi24]

Hi verzanumi,
It seems to me that pretty much all Christian forums just reflect the different teachings, beliefs, doctrines and such that are present in the world today. IMO, all these (potentially) divisive ideas were one of satans best achievements in so many way's: he sow's discord/makes the masses complacent/causes those of us in Christ to argue, bitterly sometimes! And, so on. Doesn't Jesus want us to love each other as He has loved us? Yeah, satan is having a heyday with "religion"
The Gospel is just too simple for some to grasp. It's all about what HE did for us, we are free indeed! We can be joyful even through our sadness! We can finally rest in the knowledge of these and many more things so, as long as we Christians can agree on the core beliefs of Jesus life, death and resurrection.
verzanumi, I would expect nothing less then this forum to have many differing opinions on how scripture is read/interpreted/used...although, does seem like most threads end up being a debate on here, lol!
God Bless!
-nancy

Neither Jesus or any of the apostles never taught that. In fact, Jesus commanded His disciples to preach the same message to the world that He preached, and teach those who believe the same things He taught. But do christians preach the same message Jesus preached, and are they teaching those who believe the same things Jesus taught? Did Jesus taught His disciples to keep christmas? Did Jesus taught His disciples to keep easter? What message did Jesus commanded His disciples to preach?