Blotted out of The Book Of Life?

[LC627]

Our theology is different but we can agree on a lot.

Only God our Father is good.
Only with the help and the power of the Holy Spirit can we live as members of the Kingdom.

And that's Ok - you're still my sister in Christ.
We can't/won't agree on 100% of everything but with that being said,
I know if I needed prayer/support, I know you guys would be there for me, and I'd be there for you as well.

 

[Nancy]

What changed Nancy?

Tomorrow...

New Covenant/ New Priesthood/ Grace not LAW/ Free gift of once for all forgiveness/gentiles grafted in/Salvation by faith not by works anymore/We had a heart transplant!/ Holy Spirit now living in us/ zero sin debt/ LOVE not condemnation so, in a nutshell-The good news-GOSPEL ♥

 

[Dcopymope]

God is the Creator He can do what He pleases
We are the created and must submit

And that's your final answer on this matter?? Well, I find it interesting that Jesus Christs brand of 'forgiveness' is likened to "the kingdom of heaven" as being indefinite, so therefore so should we forgive until the end of time (again not counting judgement day). Yet as far as I can see, his apostles are telling us a different story on this matter, that his patience on sin is NOT "seventy times seven". Mind you, I never took "seventy times seven" to mean indefinitely, but this is the widely accepted interpretation of it. How many times should I forgive a turd who can't take a hint??

 

[LC627]

And that's your final answer on this matter?? Well, I find it interesting that Jesus Christs brand of 'forgiveness' is likened to "the kingdom of heaven" as being indefinite, so therefore so should we forgive until the end of time (again not counting judgement day). Yet as far as I can see, his apostles are telling us a different story on this matter, that his patience on sin is NOT "seventy times seven". Mind you, I never took "seventy times seven" to mean indefinitely, but this is the widely accepted interpretation of it. How many times should I forgive a turd who can't take a hint??

Yea that's my final answer LOL.

We are to forgive as many times as we need too.
The day God stops forgiving us is the day we can stop forgiving others.

 

[Dcopymope]

Yea that's my final answer LOL.

Well, there is a clear discrepancy on this matter to me. Jesus and his chosen buddies don't quite seem to see eye to eye on forgiveness. Jesus compared this "seventy times seven" style forgiveness to the kingdom, and this is understood by many as meaning indefinite, while the apostles are claiming otherwise. What in the blue hell is going on here? With Jesus comparing this brand of forgiveness to the kingdom, both views certainly cannot be true, or the "body of Christ" needs to seriously re-examine what they believe about forgiveness. The way I see it, I don't have to keep forgiving a piece of scum over and over again into some undefined future timeline for the same thing. Just like Gods patience runs thin, so will ours. It would be unlike us as his so called "image bearers" to expect otherwise.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Of course KG is correct.
You just can't accept it.
Praise God for young Christian's with a clear mind!

Jesus loves you, and he wants you to repent and rest in him and not in your works, but His works.

Matt 11:28 "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.

U tired yet? God bless.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Was God not around before Pentecost?
Not only was He present, but there is only One God and He never changes.

Was the death, burial and resurrection around before Pentecost?

 

[Heb 13:8]

Where does Jesus mention works salvation?
Please exegete 15-23.
Jesus says the Lawless will be asked to depart from Him.
Lawless means to Not follow the law.
You should trust Him.

And the lawless are the unbelievers in the death, burial and resurrection. Works salvation is here...

Matt 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

God bless.

 

[quietthinker]

Stranger said: ↑
What do you base this belief that the spiritually dead when cast into the Lake of Fire, pass out of existence.

qt's reply

The wages of sin is death.
The gift of God is eternal life.

Two opposed positions. Death is opposed to life and the promise of eternal life is in the fullness of joy. It should be obvious that it is not living in eternal torment.

Doesn't the idea of eternal torment in flames even outrage you??
No no, a God of love would not nor could he conceive of such barbarism. That theory is direct from Satan himself and projecting it onto God.

 

[Stranger]

According to Genesis 2:7 KJV, man does not possess a Soul - man is a Soul. It says a Soul comes into/remains in existence only as a consequence of the union of the "Body" and "Breath aka Spirit of life", and at the point of disunion when the Breath/Spirit returns to God and the Body returns to the ground, the Soul ceases to exist.

Body + Breath/Spirit = Soul exists
Body - Breath/Spirit = Soul ceases to exist

Bulb + Current = Light exists
Bulb - Current = Light ceases to exist (doesn't continue shining on another plane of existence, it goes out of existence)
I've never claimed to be holier than God and I know the reward of the wicked because God says so in Scripture - best described as "annihilation".
I think the comparison is legit: It's as absurd to think that God would invite us to enter into a love relationship with Him or suffer Eternal Torment if we don't as it is for the young college guy to invite that pretty girl to do the same or suffer the same.
I agree and that's why, as a human, I rely on Scripture to guide my God-given ability to reason with Him (Isaiah 1:18 KJV) And He has shown me from His word that Eternal Torment is not Biblical.

Genesis 2:7 is a good start. Obadiah 15-16 is unequivocally speaking of "Judgment Day" and says the wicked "shall be as though they had not been" meaning "as though they had never existed". Ezekiel says of Satan, "never shalt thou be anymore" or "never shalt thou exist anymore". I do ask that for the sake of brevity, if you like we can explore this one verse at a time.

Man is body, soul, and spirit. (1 Thess. 5:23)"...and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless...." (Heb. 4:12) "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword,piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

You are 'assuming' that because the body dies, the soul ceases to exist. Your example of 'Body + Breath/Spirit =Soul' is flawed as it gives no place for mans spirit.

Yes, one who claims to know more about the judgement that the wicked are to receive more than God does, is making yourself holier than God. For it is His holiness that has been affected and it is His judgement that is to be executed. And that everlasting torment is involved is clear. (Lu. 16:28) "For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment." (Matt. 25:41) "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels"

(Obadiah 15-16) is talking about God destroying the nation of Edom. It will be as though they had not been ever a nation existing. Where in Ezekiel does he say that?

Stranger

 

[Taken]

I can assure you that you can lose Your salvation. To me The Bible is Clear on this topic. I would say that a lot of christians have to swallow some biggies to say that OSAS is true. I will Write to you a great deal of bibleverses, that to me make it Clear that we can certainly say that we can lose Our salvation.

Noone is disputing PEOPLE can LOSE their Salvation.

You use the pronoun, "with assurance" that "you can lose your salvation".

Salvation IS a Provision. A gift the Lord Himself came out from God, down to Earth, "TO OFFER" to EVERY Person IN the World.

I am not sure HOW you understand Gifts, BUT it has a two party involvement....

The Giver, which is already established is Christ.

And the Receiver, which is already established as Every person in the World.

The OFFERING, To every man, MAKES the GIFT "every mans". It is a GIFT "AVAILABLE" to Every man.

OFFERING, does NOT mean RECEIVING.
The GIFT is OFFERED; NOT FORCED on any man TO RECEIVE.

The individual persons HAVE a clear cut Scriptural teaching OF HOW TO Receive the Lords Gift of Salvation.

The individual persons HAVE a clear cut Scriptural teaching OF WHAT the Receiving of the Lords Gift of Salvation Entails and MEANS.

The Lord is NOT a liar, or Wishy washy.
Any man may ELECT to FREELY Choose to RECEIVE His GIFT, "according to His WAY" as Scripturally revealed............OR NOT.

Hearing, Learning, following, believing, DOES NOT EQUAL RECEIVING the Lords Gift of Salvation.

Hearing, Learning, following, believing.....
Absolutely are things a man CAN DO...and STOP doing AT ANY TIME....

And Yes, ANY MAN doing those things, and THEN STOP DOING THOSE THINGS....HAS JEOPARDIZED RECEIVING Salvation that the Lord has OFFERED Him.

If such man CONTINUES Rejecting, Yes, he will "LOSE" his Salvation.....BECAUSE he "NEVER" "accepted" RECEIVING the Lord Offering of His Gift of Salvation.....and such man WILL DIE "IN" his sins, WITHOUT forgiveness, and WITHOUT Salvation, and WITHOUT a Quickened born again spirit, and WITHOUT the indwelling Holy Spirit, and WITHOUT thee Lord God Almighty.

~~~~AND~~~~

A person WHO ELECTS AND CHOOSES "TO" heartfully "ACCEPT" the Lords Gift of Salvation...The Lord Himself "GIVES" His "OFFERED" Gift "TO" "THAT" person....
ONCE and FOREVER....and THAT is called according to the Lord Himself...;
A Forever Conversion.

YOU "ASSURING" Every person that "THEIR" Salvation can BE LOST....IS FALSE and NOT BIBLICAL.

The TRUTH IS.....
Every person NOT Converted, CAN and WILL lose their Salvation the Lord has "OFFERED", Because they DID NOT Elect and Choose TO ACCEPT and Receive His Gift.

And EVERY person WHO IS Converted, SHALL NEVER LOSE the Lords Gift OFFERING of Salvation and THEIR RECEIVING OF His Offered Gift.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

How many times should I forgive a turd who can't take a hint??

how many times do you want to be forgiven, i guess?
i would at least forgive them until you no longer perceive them as turds
why are you giving turds hints anyway? lol

 

[bbyrd009]

The day God stops forgiving us is the day we can stop forgiving others.

ida put that the other way round, but ya

 

[bbyrd009]

while the apostles are claiming otherwise. What in the blue hell is going on here?

dialecticism imo

both views certainly cannot be true

"two men in a bed"

I don't have to keep forgiving a piece of scum over and over again into some undefined future timeline for the same thing.

wadr if you reflect on any IRL examples imo you will find that this situation really doesn't occur. Or could you give an example of when you were called to even do this? Even an imaginary one, as a thought experiment? Takes two to tango i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

Was the death, burial and resurrection around before Pentecost?

for millenia, yes, it's in Genesis, and existed even before.
very ancient concept

 

[Taken]

I agree with everything you say - the wicked are ultimately blotted out of existence.

I would say...their "identity" / name is blotted out.

The Lord created the Earth expressly for mankind. Forming the man OUT of the Earth (which is expressly dry land), and then creating the provisions FOR a man to exist On the earth, as his habitat. That will not Change.

The Change is, WHERE shall mankind EXIST?
ON or IN or OF his habit (called earth).

And, FOR HOW LONG shall "individual" men EXIST?

We think "naturally" as "existance" being something "WITH" "LIFE" "IN" IT.

However, Spiritually...EVERY THING God created in the beginning...STILL EXISTS!

It is Simply in "different forms". To see a body burned to ash, we might say it is no longer a body, yet the ash is simply a different form unrecognizable to us, as a body.

IN the Earth, ON the Earth, OF the Earth...
Are things that Affect Every man Because of our Design. However, the Lord has provided mankind with Gifts, SHOULD an individual Agree to Accept them....which CHANGES a mans status.....

Accept His gift of Salvation...
Forgo the trip to be "IN" the Earth, making that now irrelevant, as a permanent habitat.
(Temporary yes, as we bury dead bodies).

"ON" the Earth, The original plan, and effective plan, for all who become Converted.

"OF" the Earth, Are those who still have Natural (blood) life and reject God, and instead ACCEPT what the World dictates is acceptable. Effectively called "OF" the World.
While those Converted are called "OF" and "IN" Christ.

"IN" the Earth, to the deeps and center, a direction and permanent result, FOR those who elect and chose to reject God.

Yes, "IN" the Earth, a result for some, promogated BY their Choice, and God being Just, gives everyone what they choose...

For them it shall be, an eternal habit, void of their body, as they are burned to everlasting ash. Their identity forgotten, Their influence, strife, corruption, no longer up in the face of the Earth WITH the Converted and Saved.

That is their Forever destiny....YET to not over look the Lord IS FULL OF GRACE...even to those of mankind WHO have REJECTED Him.

He NEVER quickens their "spirit" to Forever life.

Their natural "blood" life is Departed them and physically dead.

The Life of their "soul" Belongs to God and Shall return to Him, leaving a soul Without Life, (which is also burned). Slated for Judgement Day, since NO Living Souls have yet had Life departed from them.

Which is to say...those who elected to reject Him....SHALL, body and soul, be forever WITHOUT Him.....YET SHALL by His Grace,
SHALL be DEPARTED OF ALL "LIFE".

Are they tormented forever? Yes
Are they AWARE, feeling the Torment? No

Shall they Experience, Torment (which is complete separation from God and His gifts and blessings and provisions and KNOWING their Blunder of Disbelief) .... existing in Hell, as a LIVING SOUL ... for awhile? Yes.
Forever a Living soul? No
Forever a Living body? No
Ever a Quickened spirit? No

Their "feeling" the Torment, Shall come to an end....After Judgement Day and Sentencing Commences....which is All life departed and their body and soul burned, and such thing VOID of life, "tormented" forever, as ash, separated from all things spiritual.

It's an ODD thing "torment", as we think of it always having to do with A physical pain.

However Spiritually, it is Separation from God.
Burning a LIVING body with Fire...is considered a Physical Pain to experience.

However every man Converted is exposed to God who is a FLAME of FIRE. That is the FIRE that does not BURN THE BODY, but rather Purifies it from ALL impurities, as we can experience "seeing" with GOLD.

But a Flames of FIRE that BURN a BODY to Ash, is more akin to Purifying a body continually, (without life, without pain) that has REJECTED God, which is what shall become of a mans body and soul (vessels) that elected TO Reject God.

That is ETERNAL torment to the BODY and soul (without feeling), BECAUSE of their rejection, and Gods Grace, and He is Faithful to Do what He foretold and Warned.


God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

First of all I want you to read the bibleverses i quote to you as the Truth of the Bible. We have to stop reading what we are believing and start believing what we are reading. More often then not we read the Bible, but only Accept the parts of it that we agree With.

I will agree many READ, and ACCEPT "parts" of Scripture they agree with, and IGNORE or MAKE EXCUSES for what they DO NOT BELIEVE.

However you have ommitted a VERY important ASPECT...

Which IS APPLICATION.
Scripture teaches COMPLETE OPPOSITES.
The Complete OPPOSITES are NOT contradictions...
THEY are TRUTHS, that "APPLY" to different People.

Bottom Line...
What APPLIES to an un-forgiven, un-saved, non-quickened man....
DOES NOT APPLY TO a Forgiven, Saved, Quickened, Converted man.

Scripture Calls the Difference;
"Dividing the Word of TRUTH"

It makes NO PART of Scripture False...
HOWEVER it DOES MAKE "parts" of Scripture NOT APPLICABLE to Some men.

Here is the bibleverses (With some commentary):
Matthew 7:21-23
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!"

What IS the message?
Some men WHO do not do the WILL OF THE FATHER shall be Excluded.
But WHAT ABOUT THE man WHO DOES DO the WILL of the FATHER?

What IS THE WILL of the FATHER....a natural unsaved man CAN DO? And men have done and DO do?

It is precisely .... Believe AND BECOME CONVERTED! Should they be Hung on this verse speaking to men WHO HAVE NOT done the WILL of the Father? No. It doesn't apply.

I want you to recognize that Jesus says many, not some, but many. In what day? That day is reffering to the day of judgement.

THAT DAY ... is speaking of the WILL of the FATHER.
THAT DAY ... IS speaking of "everyone's" option to Choose which day THEY shall elect and choose to become Converted........and a warning IF THEY DO NOT MAKE AN ELECTION OF God.

Of course the Lord has His DAY also...OF Judgement...

But not to forget, between the Lord and individual men, there is always TWO making choices. One who Offers and one who elects to receive the OFFERING...or not.

A mans "DAY" is his individual Day of CHOOSING...or not. And men do not ALL have the Same "day" of their individual choosing.

Their DAY TOGETHER, of those who Choose the Lord....shall be the DAY their body is glorified and TOGETHER they shall SEE the Lord, AS HE IS, without a "prepared body other men saw Him "as".

God Bless,
Taken

 

[LC627]

ida put that the other way round, but ya

Ah, did I get it backwards again, please forgive me

 

[LC627]

Well, there is a clear discrepancy on this matter to me. Jesus and his chosen buddies don't quite seem to see eye to eye on forgiveness. Jesus compared this "seventy times seven" style forgiveness to the kingdom, and this is understood by many as meaning indefinite, while the apostles are claiming otherwise. What in the blue hell is going on here? With Jesus comparing this brand of forgiveness to the kingdom, both views certainly cannot be true, or the "body of Christ" needs to seriously re-examine what they believe about forgiveness. The way I see it, I don't have to keep forgiving a piece of scum over and over again into some undefined future timeline for the same thing. Just like Gods patience runs thin, so will ours. It would be unlike us as his so called "image bearers" to expect otherwise.

I will say this, Forgiveness does not mean you have to be friends with the person or even associate with them. Some people you have to love from a distance because they are not healthy or safe for us to be around. If we are loving as Christ loved then we will forgive people, sometimes it is a process and not always easy but God will give us the grace to do it. Now, that's my final answer

 

[Heb 13:8]

for millenia, yes, it's in Genesis, and existed even before.
very ancient concept

God came in the flesh and was born in a stable for millenia?