Endless Pet Doctrines

[bbyrd009]

My own discomfort shouldn’t nulify genuine worship experiences in others

i agree there, but imo let's get a common def of "genuine worship experience" first?

 

[bbyrd009]

I am fairly introverted.

which maybe explains the "altar call" discomfort, but hardly the others..?

 

[bbyrd009]

1But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, and will bring swift destruction on themselves.

now, why the Swaggarts and Bakkers of the world do not cause a revolution in worship when they are found out i can't say. Why don't we discredit their false message too? Instead they are portrayed as having had it right, yet still falling from grace, right? Only we have Scriptures for this too, right, and it doesn't work like that, i'm pretty sure

11Does a spring pour out sweet and bitter water from the same opening?

 

[bbyrd009]

You really think it is counterfeit?

"When we all get to heaven?" (for instance)
no, imo it does not even qualify as a counterfeit. It is no less than satanic

 

[aspen]

which maybe explains the "altar call" discomfort, but hardly the others..?

No it explains all of it. I am a shy person.

 

[aspen]

"When we all get to heaven?" (for instance)
no, imo it does not even qualify as a counterfeit. It is no less than satanic

So you are specifically talking about a message of universalism sometimes presented by religious leaders who engage in flamboyant worship sessions? I think that universalism in these sort of situations is quite rare - most worship leader types are fundamentalists. In any case, i am just talking about excessive, carney type worship - style rather than substance

 

[Naomi25]

well Naomi, imagine telling that little kid who hurt himself "I can't hear you." And i should have said they consider us insane, not you specifically, sorry

Yeah...this is where I hop off the round-about. We've done this dance before, you and I, and I know well it gets us nowhere. I don't understand half of what you say, and the other half seems to chase it's tail until it either contradicts itself or cancels itself out, or something. Either way, you don't hear me, and clearly I have no idea what you're saying either.
Cheers.

 

[bbyrd009]

So you are specifically talking about a message of universalism sometimes presented by religious leaders who engage in flamboyant worship sessions? I think that universalism in these sort of situations is quite rare - most worship leader types are fundamentalists. In any case, i am just talking about excessive, carney type worship - style rather than substance

ah sry, my meaning was that no "all" is getting to any "heaven" in the manner the song infers, you might search..."when we all get to heaven" by me onsite, w/in the past week i guess it was. ah, meme dump

 

[bbyrd009]

Either way, you don't hear me, and clearly I have no idea what you're saying either.

k, just remember "I will not hear your prayers in that day" comes from God ok, not me

 

[amadeus]

or at least they experience a counterfeit of that connection, yes. "When we all see Jesus we'll sing and shout the victory."

Even a song with wrong words can be sung in the right Spirit. Perhaps you could not sing the song you quoted above because of what is in your heart about it, but everyone doesn't have the same understanding on it. You may even attempt to explain it to person whose heart is right, but when they really do not understand your words, are they lost to God as a result? I would certainly hesitate to render a final blanket judgment on that point.

What seems to be counterfeit to you may well and good to them. If a person regularly uses paper money to buy his groceries and the grocer accepts it and the banker accepts and even the Secret Service says it is legal tender, will you by confirming that it has no real value change the fact that he received his groceries for it and filled the bellies of his hungry children?

 

[bbyrd009]

Even a song with wrong words can be sung in the right Spirit. Perhaps you could not sing the song you quoted above because of what is in your heart about it, but everyone doesn't have the same understanding on it. You may even attempt to explain it to person whose heart is right, but when they really do not understand your words, are they lost to God as a result? I would certainly hesitate to render a final blanket judgment on that point.

a child's ignorance is certainly forgiven, yes

 

[amadeus]

a child's ignorance is certainly forgiven, yes

Of course children do need to be growing, don't they? But if the parents withhold the proper chastisement, instruction and food, what is the likely result?

 

[bbyrd009]

What seems to be counterfeit to you may well and good to them. If a person regularly uses paper money to buy his groceries and the grocer accepts it and the banker accepts and even the Secret Service says it is legal tender, will you by confirming that it has no real value change the fact that he received his groceries for it and filled the bellies of his hungry children?

hopefully, yes, especially when the real cost is counted, and the negative value is realized. Bc there will be a reaping from that sowing; calling usurious promissory notes "money" and sitting still for the assassinating of any wildly popular leaders who try to enact Jubilee is not going to go without consequences, i hope obviously? And if that doesn't work, maybe autistic and allergic children will i guess; keep buying those groceries if you want, from corporations who openly state a profit motive as their primary goal, and see what happens!

See that those ppl in the world accept it and promote it makes it less attractive to me, not more. In, what, like 50 years, we have gone from self-sufficiency and real food (that was already "organic") to most people who read this cannot even imagine where else they might even get any food from, right. So no, i am not even here to change that "fact." That guy worked for his food, and he is welcome to it. i did it most of my life too, so i understand

 

[amadeus]

hopefully, yes, especially when the real cost is counted, and the negative value is realized. Bc there will be a reaping from that sowing; calling usurious promissory notes "money" and sitting still for the assassinating of any wildly popular leaders who try to enact Jubilee is not going to go without consequences, i hope obviously? And if that doesn't work, maybe autistic and allergic children will i guess; keep buying those groceries if you want, from corporations who openly state a profit motive as their primary goal, and see what happens!

See that those ppl in the world accept it and promote it makes it less attractive to me, not more. In, what, like 50 years, we have gone from self-sufficiency and real food to most people who read this cannot even imagine where else they might even get any food from, right. So no, i am not even here to change that "fact." That guy worked for his food, and he is welcome to it. i did it most of my life too, so i understand

While I do understand, the only thing some people are able to do in their carnal nature is to work within the system. This is the bottomless pit, if you will, and the only way to get out of it or around it is through the Way that God has provided. Unfortunately too many people expect what the Israelites/Jews often expected from Jesus when he walked through Jerusalem about 2000 years ago. They expected Him to take the lead in overwhelming the natural armies of Rome. That is not why He came at that time and neither is it His purpose now.

Give God the glory!

 

[bbyrd009]

In any case, i am just talking about excessive, carney type worship - style rather than substance

as to any substance you might perceive in what we now define as worship, i would ask why we don't eat at home first, if we are so hungry?

If you are really hungry, eat at home so you won't bring judgment upon yourselves when you meet together.

@VictoryinJesus

 

[bbyrd009]

dang i guess that isn't helping anyone much lol i mean how did we ever get the idea that worship was something to do once a week on Solday in a mortgaged building we call "church?" So every single definition is whacked, see

 

[Helen]

dang i guess that isn't helping anyone much lol i mean how did we ever get the idea that worship was something to do once a week on Solday in a mortgaged building we call "church?" So every single definition is whacked, see

I remember reading once about how the protestants started the popular ( religious) 11am Sunday morning meeting time.....
I wish I had kept it...I think Martin Luther's hang over had something to do with it.

 

[bbyrd009]

I remember reading once about how the protestants started the popular ( religious) 11am Sunday morning meeting time.....
I wish I had kept it...I think Martin Luther's hang over had something to do with it.

pretty sure it was Rome
they maybe revived it

 

[bbyrd009]

there was never a "Switch to Sunday" like what is in our minds now anyway; and Sabbath certainly hasn't changed either.
those NT ppl we read about went to the temple every day
every day was the day iow

 

[bbyrd009]

a child's ignorance is certainly forgiven, yes

Of course children do need to be growing, don't they?

they will reap what they sow even forgiven, yes