Eternal Security

[Episkopos]

How do we become saved?

A better question is...how do we get onto the path of life? Saved is for the end...no one wins a race until the race is finished. We are redeemed to run a race...until the day of Redemption.

 

[GodsGrace]

A better question is...how do we get onto the path of life? Saved is for the end...no one wins a race until the race is finished. We are redeemed to run a race...until the day of Redemption.

I agree. Paul said this.
1 Corinthians 9:24-27
Hebrews 12:1
and more....

However, what I'd like to know from @Jun2u is HOW we become saved.
I learn from reading the N.T. that God desires ALL MEN to be saved, not just a select few as Calvinists believe.
1 Timothy 2:3-4
3This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.


I also know from the N.T. that faith comes by hearing the word of God.
Romans 10:17
17So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

Perhaps @Jun2u could explain how HE believes we are saved...

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Joshua 24:15 sounds so pleasing to the ears of those who believe man has a free choice to choose for God.

However, this must be read in light of Romans 3 where God’s assessment of the human race is: “There is NONE righteous NO NOT ONE, there is NONE that seeks after God!!!

Look at the example of the publican of Luke 18 when seeing Jesus from afar smote his breast and cried out loud, “have mercy on me a sinner.” This is the ONLY WAY anyone can seek after God IF the Father is drawing him (John 6:44).

We’ve gone round and round with this issue, why not just accept what God has declared???

Scripture cannot refute Scripture!!!

To God Be The Glory

Pardon my bluntness, if the theology you profess is correct, every person who is doomed to Hell has zero choice in the matter, and every person sentenced to Heaven has zero choice in the matter. Under such a Calvinistic regime, it doesn't remotely matter what any of us believe, say, or think, so there's no point to you trying to explain your view.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Eternal security is real, indeed, but only for those who obey. God will not be mocked - even the demons 'believe' and tremble.

1 John 3: My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

Note, there are two commandments, not just the first one of believing in Christ. Teaching either commandment without the other is false religion. For instance, Buddhists are peaceful, but do not have Christ. The false doctrine that the first commandment without the second is enough makes us no better than the world. But that is what is being preached in liberal circles in the Church. Here is a prime example. Galatians 5:19-21 shows the sins of the flesh and that they will not inherit the Kingdom of God. False doctrine says they are saved, and only lose rewards. Really? Check out all sister scriptures to see where they really are destined.

Galatians 5:19-21 "Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

Revelation 21: 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

 

[GodsGrace]

Pardon my bluntness, if the theology you profess is correct, every person who is doomed to Hell has zero choice in the matter, and every person sentenced to Heaven has zero choice in the matter. Under such a Calvinistic regime, it doesn't remotely matter what any of us believe, say, or think, so there's no point to you trying to explain your view.

Interesting concept!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Pardon my bluntness, if the theology you profess is correct, every person who is doomed to Hell has zero choice in the matter, and every person sentenced to Heaven has zero choice in the matter. Under such a Calvinistic regime, it doesn't remotely matter what any of us believe, say, or think, so there's no point to you trying to explain your view.

I agree. Talk about the most dangerous doctrine in modern Christianity! Yikes! Jesus wrote a letter in Revelation 3:1-6 about Sardis, the dead church. That is the doctrine - the church age just following the RCC/Thyatira.

 

[Enoch111]

The Kingdom of God starts right here.

The invisible Kingdom of God is within believers, and is not seen with observation as Jesus said. But that is not the limit of the Kingdom. After the second coming Christ will literally establish His Kingdom on earth, which will include universal peace and righteousness. Beyond that the universe will also become the Kingdom of God.

 

[Stranger]

Abraham was saved by grace through faith, thus his salvation was eternally secure. He was also told that he would be a stranger and a pilgrim on earth, and would dwell in Canaan (the Land of Promise). He was also given a vision of the New Jerusalem, so that he would know where his eternal home was. See Hebrews 11. So he allowed Lot to choose where Lot would settle, and as we know, Lot made a very poor choice.

As to "the Kingdom" that is yet future (after the second coming of Christ). We are in the Church Age right now, and the Great Commission is the top priority of every Christian.

Jun2u said it had to do with eternal security. So, how does his references have to do with eternal security? Perhaps he should answer.

Stranger

 

[gadar perets]

Eternal security is real.
It's what makes Christianity alive!
When we are filled with the Holy Spirit, we know we are with God and all his promises are ours.

Yes, we are eternally secure as long as we are filled with the Holy Spirit. The problem is, some people do not remain filled, but grieve the Holy Spirit away.

Romans 11:29-32;
29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.
30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience,
31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you.
32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

It is YHWH's desire that all receive mercy, but that is not the reality. Many have already died without mercy and more will in the future (Hebrews 10:28-29).

We receive this eternal security because of God's mercy on us.
Ever hear of the Mercy Seat of Christ?
If we believe, we will be there.

Yes, "if we believe". If we "don't believe", we will not be there. Any believer can choose to no longer believe. Destroying belief in Yeshua is the primary goal of Jewish anti-missionaries. They have successfully destroyed the faith of many, even those who were strong in the faith.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, we are eternally secure as long as we are filled with the Holy Spirit. The problem is, some people do not remain filled, but grieve the Holy Spirit away.


It is YHWH's desire that all receive mercy, but that is not the reality. Many have already died without mercy and more will in the future (Hebrews 10:28-29).


Yes, "if we believe". If we "don't believe", we will not be there. Any believer can choose to no longer believe. Destroying belief in Yeshua is the primary goal of Jewish anti-missionaries. They have successfully destroyed the faith of many, even those who were strong in the faith.

Hi GP,
You mean there are Jewish missionaries that go around the globe to actually teach against Jesus?

 

[GodsGrace]

The invisible Kingdom of God is within believers, and is not seen with observation as Jesus said. But that is not the limit of the Kingdom. After the second coming Christ will literally establish His Kingdom on earth, which will include universal peace and righteousness. Beyond that the universe will also become the Kingdom of God.

Enoch,
I gave you a like and I agree...
I THINK.

I hope you mean that the kingdom is within us, but we're asked to display it and make it alive in the world...Jesus said it cannot be seen unless we're born from above. It's a Godly Kingdom alive in the world which we Christians can bring to life...the world as God would have it to be if all followed His laws.

 

[bbyrd009]

Seems like a contradiction in terms, right?

i'd guess more like maybe overstatements or dramatizations to like reveal or characterize a certain perspective prolly?

It is true no one seeks after God for God has declared it. Are you calling God a liar???

hmm, don't recall God declaring that anywhere, but it does make a point about a certain time in a cycle i guess. But it is not meant to be taken literally anyway, the Psalm, it is painting a portrayal of a fool? Obviously whoever wrote it excluded himself immediately, etc right. Not that God is above making statements that He knows will be misconstrued anyway lol. "Hide wisdom from the wise" and "lying" are just two perspectives of the same act i guess.

a point i hoped to make there was that in making your choice to prove that you can't really make any choices you will contravene Scripture various ways imo, at the very least in spirit; iow next thing ya know you'll be saying "God said this" or whatever, to make a point that is not really true.

Just as someone who might insist that God cannot actually do anything in the material plane, perhaps without a supplication to Him, bc that would violate our free will, i mean i can prove that too right

all things are possible with God, true enough
but God cannot sin, so that is not true

No one comes unless drawn, but then God draws all men unto Himself also,
so that is not true

Scripture cannot refute Scripture!!!

ha more like one cannot state a single absolute truth from Scripture, as we are seeing. Now i'm pretty sure that this pov is closer to truth, but a point here is that you don't have to get married to either pov, every now and then a kid who waits for a present actually does get a present, etc.

what you lose is the ability to make definitive statements as if you know something, though, and this is a hard transition i guess
i don't mean to say that you will never be right there either, but that you might find yourself only being right twice a day or something like that

 

[bbyrd009]

there are none righteous; no, not one
Noah was a righteous man
Job was a righteous man

there, the Bible just refuted Itself

 

[gadar perets]

Hi GP,
You mean there are Jewish missionaries that go around the globe to actually teach against Jesus?

Yes. They primarily try to persuade people that Yeshua is not the Messiah based on how they understand Messianic prophecies.

 

[bbyrd009]

shall have their part

shall have their part

 

[Episkopos]

there are none righteous; no, not one
Noah was a righteous man
Job was a righteous man

there, the Bible just refuted Itself

The bible compares us to God. Compared to God, no one has any strength...no one seeks...no one is righteous.

IOW even righteous people will sin. There is no one so righteous that they don't sin (that is until we put on the righteousness of God.)

We need to look for balance in the bible. We need to understand the context of the comparison between what men can do and what God can accomplish through us. All too often people draw conclusions too quickly without looking for the balance of the truth. They look at one verse and make a doctrine out of it....when there are other verses that negate that conclusion.

This happens all the time.

When you try pointing this out to someone who is indoctrinated into an unbalanced viewpoint...we see what religion does to people. Can you say...gnash their teeth?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Yes, God manifests His glory in various ways. And we are the benefactors of that. I guess my point is that we have not added to His glory. We have not made God more glorious than He already is. We simply become a point where His glory is displayed.

Stranger

Consider :Revelation 16:9
[9] And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

What is His glory? Is it not the glory of the Lamb which is light. Men cling to the darkness rather that embrace the light. Men will not repent and turn and come to Him to give Him glory. Again, I do understand we are not the source of light ...but we do increase the light when we accept it therefore give(increase) the way of light. Maybe magnify is a better word than reflect. We do not change the source but rather magnify(enlarge) His glory.

 

[Enoch111]

there are none righteous; no, not one
Noah was a righteous man
Job was a righteous man

there, the Bible just refuted Itself

No the Bible did not refute itself. It is you who failed to understand what was being said.

There is none righteous UNTIL God deems them righteous when they are justified by grace through faith.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes. They primarily try to persuade people that Yeshua is not the Messiah based on how they understand Messianic prophecies.

I've always found this interesting.
I have an NASB bible here that lists TENS, of prophecies Jesus fulfilled.

My pastor once explained that anyone could have fulfilled one prophecy or even two...as some fake messiahs may well have.

But fulfilling all that Jesus did would be akin to filling up Texas with a foot high of quarters and coloring one blue. Putting your hand into the pile and coming up with that one blue quarter. IOW, impossible.

How anyone could doubt Jesus is the Messiah is a mystery to me.

 

[gadar perets]

How anyone could doubt Jesus is the Messiah is a mystery to me.

And yet such anti-missionaries are successful in leading people to renounce Yeshua. It has been my experience that those who know the Scriptures well are the most vulnerable.