Eternal Security

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amadeus

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There many different "wills" of God: perfect will of God, decreed will of God,perceptive will, God's preferential (desiderative) will, God's "directive will, and others.
Bible.org: (4) There is what we might call God's "permissive will." This is what God allows, even though it is sin. God allowed Joseph's brothers to betray him, and to deceive their father, so that He might bring the Israelites (few in number) to Egypt, where God would spare them, and they would greatly multiply (Genesis 50:20). God allows man to reject the gospel, to willfully disobey His laws, to persecute the righteous, and so on. But in all of this, God is still in control, and His purposes are being accomplished. His "decretive will" often allows or permits (His permissive will) men to violate His preferential will (what gives Him pleasure) and His prescriptive will (His Word). God's permissive will is never outside His decretive will. God "permits" those things which will lead to the accomplishment of His decretive will.
The only and last thing I will say about being under "the letter of the law" - The letter brings death and the Spirit brings life-if truly saved, you will not be breaking ANY law. The Spirit lives INSIDE us now, not like the O.T. Not to mention, are an Israelite? Because they are and will always be God's chosen people, to WHOM He gave the law in the first place. The 10 commandments will NOT be broken if we live, by the Spirit the 2 Laws Jesus gave us: ''Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself."
Not disagreeing but stating in different words, I believe, your point:

There is a right hand of God and a left hand of God. In the former, the right hand, is where God wants us and where we should want to be. Nevertheless many find themselves in the latter, the left hand. Pharaoh for example was working in the left hand of God even as Moses was working in the right. Christians, who really are followers of Christ in a measure may be at times working in the left hand, but it is not a place we should ever want to be.

Or, we may choose to work with [on the right] God instead leaving it alone and working for [on the left] Him.
 
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BobRyan

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There many different "wills" of God: perfect will of God, decreed will of God,perceptive will, God's preferential (desiderative) will, God's "directive will, and others.
Bible.org: (4) There is what we might call God's "permissive will." This is what God allows, even though it is sin. God allowed Joseph's brothers to betray him, and to deceive their father, so that He might bring the Israelites (few in number) to Egypt, where God would spare them, and they would greatly multiply (Genesis 50:20). God allows man to reject the gospel, to willfully disobey His laws, to persecute the righteous, and so on. But in all of this, God is still in control, and His purposes are being accomplished.


It is not the "will of God" that any should sin. The "will" of God in terms of sin is that He "wills free will" -- "He is not WILLING that any should perish" 2 Peter 3 - but many do perish because God "wills" -- free will.

Thus in John 1:11 "He came to His OWN and His OWN received Him not"
Isaiah 5:4 “What more was there to do for My vineyard that I have not done in it?
Why, when I expected it to produce good grapes did it produce worthless ones?

God never "requires evil" to "do good". But God can "override evil" to bring about good as Joseph points out.

The only and last thing I will say about being under "the letter of the law" - The letter brings death and the Spirit brings life-if truly saved, you will not be breaking ANY law.

So to be specific for example "Do not take God's name in vain" Exodus 20:7. Is it your claim that no saved person has ever taken God's name in vain -- not even once?

I think that is unlikely.

It is also not true that God does not care if a saved person lives a life of taking God's name in vain -- rather they will go from being saved to being lost if that is a choice that they make 10 years after being saved (for example).

There is "only ONE Gospel" Gal 1:6-9 in BOTH OT and NT .. only ONE.. only THIS one.

The Spirit lives INSIDE us now, not like the O.T.

On the contrary - the Gospel is the same yesterday today and forever... for God does not change.

The Gospel.. the "one Gospel" of Gal 1:6-9 was "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:7.
"The Gospel was preached to us JUST as it was to them also" Hebrews 4:2

The 10 commandments will NOT be broken if we live, by the Spirit the 2 Laws Jesus gave us: ''Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself."

"This IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3
"the first commandment WITH a promise" is the 5th commandment. Eph 6:2
" ...if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he (the rich young ruler) *said to Him(Jesus), “Which ones?” Matthew 19:17-18
 
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BobRyan

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Jesus said we will be judged by our deeds...
John 5:28-29
28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment."


Jesus said we are to obey the commandments, both of His word and the Father's word:
John 14:23-24

“If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.
24“He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father’s who sent Me.

That is true.

OSAS is not true as we see Christ explain for us at the end of Matthew 18. And as Paul states it in Romans 11
 

1stCenturyLady

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By the Covenant of the 10 Commandments you mean the Mosaic Covenant.
Correct. The Mosaic Covenant was conditional on the Israelites keeping the 10 commandments and observing the Sabbath because that was the "sign" of that covenant. It was a bi-lateral Covenant: Both God and Man made the agreement together.

I don't want to keep the Sabbath. But I respect those who do. Thou shalt keep holy the Sabbath is a commandment. Why was this one abolished and not the other 9? I'm very much on the fence (as they say) about this and am not convinced one way or the other.

The ECF began to celebrate on Sundays because that's the day of the resurrection...however I've been on threads that speak about Jesus not having died on Friday and resurrected on Sunday. And by very knowledgeable persons that know all about the Nissan days, etc. I'm not this knowledgeable and is probably the reason why I have this doubt.

I believe every day is the Lord's Day, but I do feel a special day should be set aside... Jesus also did this.

We're off topic...Eternal Security.

For me, eternal security has to do with obeying God. Understanding what you and I have been talking about has everything to do with that assurance. 1 John 3:18-24. Note the difference in "commandments." They are the "laws" of the New Covenant. Also, note that keeping any day of the week, even in commemoration of the creation or resurrection is not "commanded" among them. That again would be returning to rote action - carnal law - fallen from grace. But we are advised to be in the company of fellow worshipers for strength, especially in times of persecution to encourage us to endure to the end. That time is coming again in the USA. In California they are even trying to outlaw the Bible.

Also note that any time any of the Ten Commandments are listed as examples in the epistles, even when Jesus was teaching the rich young ruler, always had to do with our fellow human being, the last 6 commandments, which are all covered under the law of love. But the first four, having to do with God, are all summed up in believing on the name of Jesus Christ.

cc: @Bob Ryan
 
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Nancy

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...Amen....and that's where free will comes in. But the law is only for sinners. Freedom reveals the life of God and gives it room to manifest itself in the world.

So then grace and law don't mix. Otherwise grace is frustrated.

Good post!
IMHO- when one tries to mix law with grace, it make Jesus ONCE FOR ALL sacrifice all for nothing. It's like saying that His sacrifice to free us FROM the law, didn't work :confused:
 

Nancy

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It is not the "will of God" that any should sin. The "will" of God in terms of sin is that He "wills free will" -- "He is not WILLING that any should perish" 2 Peter 3 - but many do perish because God "wills" -- free will.

Thus in John 1:11 "He came to His OWN and His OWN received Him not"
Isaiah 5:4 “What more was there to do for My vineyard that I have not done in it?
Why, when I expected it to produce good grapes did it produce worthless ones?

God never "requires evil" to "do good". But God can "override evil" to bring about good as Joseph points out.



So to be specific for example "Do not take God's name in vain" Exodus 20:7. Is it your claim that no saved person has ever taken God's name in vain -- not even once?

I think that is unlikely.

It is also not true that God does not care if a saved person lives a life of taking God's name in vain -- rather they will go from being saved to being lost if that is a choice that they make 10 years after being saved (for example).

There is "only ONE Gospel" Gal 1:6-9 in BOTH OT and NT .. only ONE.. only THIS one.



On the contrary - the Gospel is the same yesterday today and forever... for God does not change.

The Gospel.. the "one Gospel" of Gal 1:6-9 was "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:7.
"The Gospel was preached to us JUST as it was to them also" Hebrews 4:2



"This IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3
"the first commandment WITH a promise" is the 5th commandment. Eph 6:2
" ...if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he (the rich young ruler) *said to Him(Jesus), “Which ones?” Matthew 19:17-18
I NEVER said it is God's will that we sin!!! But, if (when) we do: 1 John 2:1 "My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous."
I suppose I could re-word and say one who "keeps on sinning" as a way of life. We are not sinless but we will sin less the more we trust in His finished work. God HATES sin and I think you know that I understand this.
God is the same yesterday, today and forever. The New Covenant began at Jesus death, not His birth. If you want to skew my words, do it to your own enjoyment as I will not argue with anybody on here. There is enough strife, division and lack of true fellowship love on this site.
Have a blessed day
 

GodsGrace

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And I believe you are correct.

A Bible teacher years ago gave this example, and I think it applies here also. A young man goes into the military fresh from home where he as been raised right and has been overall a good young man. But now away from home, in far away lands and ports of call, with every sin available under the sun to him to enjoy, what is his conduct then? When the restraints of home and family are lifted. And no one will ever know?

Concerning this, the military does not make one a man, but it certainly will reveal the man he is.

It is for this reason I believe preachers are afraid to preach 'grace'. True grace. They always want to speak of grace with some Law added because they fear that many of their parishioners will head out the doors and into a life of sin. Yet if they do that they simply reveal a heart problem that holding them there under some Law, does nothing to help them.

Stranger
What IS true grace?

God is loving, God is merciful, but God is also just.
We shouldn't take His laws so lightly.
God is a moral being...He IS morality. He has always demanded obedience...it always sounds to me like those such as yourself preach that we SHOULD NOT sin, but it's kind of OK if we do.

I know you don't believe this...so why speak in such a manner that this is what is understood?

Jesus didn't say the unsaved will go to the other place...
He said THE LAWLESS will go there.
Mathew 7:23
Lawless means to live without the law.
 

gadar perets

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When a person teach that there is only one God he is actually teaching heresy because the Bible is replete with Scriptures, both in the Old and New Testaments, that there are at least more than one person subsisting in the Godhead namely: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
I guess that means Yeshua was teaching heresy when he said his Father was the "only true God". I'm in good company.

Here is @gadar again teaching a lie by saying he doesn’t eat pig meat any longer because he found out it is an abomination to his Heavenly Father. Well, if he was a good son he should have searched the Bible and found that the Ceremonial Laws were completed in Christ, and that his Heavenly Father was the one who rescinded the law about eating unclean flesh.

Acts 10:10-16:
10) And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
11) And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
12) Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air,
13) And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter: kill, and eat.
14) But Peter said, Not so, Lord: for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.
15) And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
16) This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

Note: if the number three has any spiritual value at all, it is “perfection.”
Your interpretation of Peter's vision is contrary to the interpretation YHWH gave to Peter.

Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
The vision had absolutely nothing to do with rescinding the law.
 
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GodsGrace

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Concerning (Matt. 5:19), yes it is wrong to teach anyone that it is ok to break any laws of God. It is not ok. It is sin, whether under the Old or New Covenant. Sin is sin. And, that is not what I am saying.

If I have not said that, yet if one wants to interpret it to mean that, that he can go and sin all he wants because he is under grace, then he has revealed sin in his life, in his heart already. In other words, if one is obeying the Law, yet in his heart he wants to go and sin all he can, what good has the Law done him before God?

Stranger
Stranger,,,there's not too much to interpret!

Here's what you said in post 548:
The believer is not under the Mosaic Law because he is dead, buried, and raised with Jesus Christ when he is born-again. Thus the law has no authority over him. He is still a sinner and has the Holy Spirit. He does not please God by now trying to keep the Law. He walks in the Spirit.

Think of a new believer reading the above.
1. He's not under the Mosaic law. (what IS the Mosaic law?!)
2. The law has no authority over him.
3. It does not please God to keep the law.

What do you think goes on in the mind of a new believer?

I believe we should encourage new Christians and older ones that God is to be obeyed and that He IS pleased when we say no to sin.

Deuteronomy 11:1

1 Love the LORD your God and keep his requirements, his decrees, his laws and his commands always.

Romans 1:5
5 Through him we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith for his name’s sake.

2 John 1:6
6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

Revelation 14:12
12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.

From the O.T. to the N.T....
God does not change.
 

Enoch111

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For me, eternal security has to do with obeying God...
You could obey God to the nth degree and yet not be eternally secure. One slip and it would be all over.

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. (James 2:10)

It is quite amazing that so many Christians have failed to understand the BASIS of eternal security. And then we have the Messianics who believe that observing the 7th day sabbath makes them eternally secure.

1. Do we really understand the meaning of "the infinite grace of God"?

2. Do we really understand who Christ is -- fully God and fully sinless Man?

3. Do we really understand that the only man who obeyed God's laws and commandments perfectly was the God-Man Christ Jesus?

4. Do we really understand what Christ accomplished on the Cross for our redemption?

5. Do we really understand what Christ accomplished for us in His resurrection?

6. Do we really understand what Christ is presently doing in Heaven on our behalf?

Eternally security is TOTALLY based on God and Christ.
 
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GodsGrace

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There many different "wills" of God: perfect will of God, decreed will of God,perceptive will, God's preferential (desiderative) will, God's "directive will, and others.
Bible.org: (4) There is what we might call God's "permissive will." This is what God allows, even though it is sin. God allowed Joseph's brothers to betray him, and to deceive their father, so that He might bring the Israelites (few in number) to Egypt, where God would spare them, and they would greatly multiply (Genesis 50:20). God allows man to reject the gospel, to willfully disobey His laws, to persecute the righteous, and so on. But in all of this, God is still in control, and His purposes are being accomplished. His "decretive will" often allows or permits (His permissive will) men to violate His preferential will (what gives Him pleasure) and His prescriptive will (His Word). God's permissive will is never outside His decretive will. God "permits" those things which will lead to the accomplishment of His decretive will.
The only and last thing I will say about being under "the letter of the law" - The letter brings death and the Spirit brings life-if truly saved, you will not be breaking ANY law. The Spirit lives INSIDE us now, not like the O.T. Not to mention, are an Israelite? Because they are and will always be God's chosen people, to WHOM He gave the law in the first place. The 10 commandments will NOT be broken if we live, by the Spirit the 2 Laws Jesus gave us: ''Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself."
God allows us to sin because we have free will. This does not mean that it's His will that we sin.
God can use evil for good...
Genesis 50:20 This does not mean that He is happy when someone that claims to know Him sins. This is what quenches the Holy Spirit;
1 Thessalonians 5:19
We are told not to quench the Holy Spirit,,,not to sin because in any case God will use it for good !

We are not under the letter of the law...we are not slaves to God.
We are under the spirit of the law........we are friends of God.
But the law must still be maintained by us, with the help of the Holy Spirit.

Then you say that if we are truly saved we will not break any law.
Does this mean you never sin? You seem to go from one extreme to the other.

I agree that following the Two Great Commandments will cover all the others,,,but, you see, Jesus DID want all the others to be covered; He just showed us how to do this --- with love. He did NOT say to forget about the law.
He said that if we love Him we will follow His commandments.
John 14:15
 

GodsGrace

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That is true.

OSAS is not true as we see Christ explain for us at the end of Matthew 18. And as Paul states it in Romans 11
There are many verses to show that OSAS is not true.
It came about with the reformation and Calvin's perseverance of the saints (which includes works BTW!) which we have changed today to mean OSAS.
Could you imagine that it took 1,500 years for this idea to come about....Do some suppose that all the theologians before this time were dumb?

I've asked many times for a verse that says we could live a life of sin and we will still be saved...but of course, this verse does not exist.
 

gadar perets

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Remember Romans 14 and don't judge @gadar perets for keeping the old food laws, even if God did, in fact, rescind them. They were only for the Jews, as Noah was told he could eat anything that moves which would have included pork Genesis 9:3.
Had anyone on the ark eaten one of the only two pigs on the ark, pigs would have become extinct as would any other unclean species. Genesis 9:3 needs to be qualified just as Genesis 8:21 does.

And YHWH smelled a sweet savour; and YHWH said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.​

Did YHWH smite "every living thing"? No. He did not smite those in the ark or sea life. He only smote things on dry land (Genesis 7:21-23). Genesis 8:21 should be qualified to read, "... neither will I again smite any more every thing living [on dry land], as I have done. Genesis 9:3 should be qualified to read, "Every moving thing that lives [and is clean] shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things."

Only clean meats were separated for sacrifices to God. It is interesting to note that like man all animals were also vegetarians until after the flood. The food laws were given to the Jews to separate them from the Gentiles, which the unclean meats represented. Leviticus 20:25-26. But when the Gentiles were no longer separated from the gospel, so the restriction on meat was lifted.
That is your erroneous interpretation.

Gadar is trying to serve God the best he can, even though he doesn't know the whole word of God, and takes verses out of context of the whole. It is why he doesn't understand the gospel and the Law of Liberty. He sees it as lawlessness, instead of true righteousness. Funny thing is the Law he holds to made no man righteous.
James 1:22-25 – “For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholds himself, and goes his way, and straightway forgets what manner of man he was. But whoso looks into the perfect law of liberty, and continues therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.”​

What is the perfect law of liberty? First, Psalm 19 says the Law of YHWH is perfect. It is a perfect law. Secondly, James 2:8-12 tells us what the perfect law of liberty is.

“If you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, you do well: But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet if you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law. So speak you, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.”​

The law of verses 8-11 are laws found in the Old Covenant (as well as the New). In verse 8, James is quoting the second greatest commandment which is actually an Old Covenant commandment found in Leviticus 19:18. In verse 9, the law he is referring to is the Old Covenant law. Verse 10 is often used by those opposed to obeying the Old Covenant laws. They say, “if you break one law you’ve broken them all, so why even try to keep the law?” So verse 10 is also speaking of the Old Covenant law. Of course, verse 11 is quoting two of the Ten Commandments which are also Old Covenant laws. In verse 12, James is saying that people are going to be judged by that same law. So, in order to receive a good judgment, speak and do according to those laws.

Paul said the same thing in Romans 2:12,13, “For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; For not the hearers of the law are just before the Mighty One, but the doers of the law shall be justified.” Not that the law justifies us. We are justified by grace through faith. However, a saving faith will be evidenced by good works, among which include obedience to the law.

Why does James call the Old Covenant law “the law of liberty”? Well, there are two reasons. The first has to do with obedience. When the law is lawfully used, when it is obeyed through the motivation of love without seeking to be justified or saved by it, we walk at liberty.

Let’s look at Galatians 5:13-16;

“For, brethren, you have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. But if you bite and devour one another, take heed that you be not consumed one of another. This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.”​

Paul then goes on to list the works of the flesh in vss. 19-21, all of which are transgressions against Old Covenant law. However, if we obey the law through the Spirit and through love, the law cannot put us in bondage. If we walk in the Spirit, we walk in freedom and liberty.

Now, if we transgress the law and sin, the second reason why the Old Covenant law is the perfect law of liberty comes into play. It has to do with what Paul said to the Galatians in 3:24, “Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Messiah, that we might be justified by faith.”

In other words, one of the functions of the law was to lead us to Messiah in order to be liberated from sin. Our disobedience to the law drives us to Messiah and to freedom and liberty from sin through him. We were once imprisoned on death row because of our transgressions against the law. But now, the law has led us to Messiah and liberty. Once we are free from sin, Messiah then drives us back to obedience to the law through faith. We become doers of the word, or as Paul says, “doers of the law”, and not hearers only.

How do we know Yeshua is driving us back to obedience to the law through faith? Once again, Romans 3: 30,31 says;

“Seeing it is one God which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith, do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.”​

Why is the law being firmly established? Because Messiah is driving us back to obedience to it. This verse is a direct contradiction of the doctrine that the law is abolished.
 

gadar perets

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The believer is not under the Mosaic Law because he is dead, buried, and raised with Jesus Christ when he is born-again. Thus the law has no authority over him. He is still a sinner and has the Holy Spirit. He does not please God by now trying to keep the Law. He walks in the Spirit
Does not stealing please God? Of course it does. Does stealing please God? Of course it doesn't. Any time we break a law, it displeases God and when we obey a law, it pleases God. Obeying laws is a fruit of our salvation and is accomplished through the power of the Holy Spirit as we walk in the Spirit. To break the law is to walk in the flesh.
 

gadar perets

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But the law is only for sinners.
1Ti 1:5 Now the end [goal] of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

1Ti 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,​
1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
1Ti 1:11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

In other words, the [Old Covenant] law was not made for righteous men because righteous men would not do such things. However, any man that does such things commits unrighteous acts. Any Christian that breaks the law commits an unrighteous act (sin) even if it is a "little white lie". They have chosen to break it rather than use it lawfully. Several of you have said there is no more law for Christians, yet Paul says there is and it is good and needs to be used lawfully.
 

gadar perets

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So then grace and law don't mix. Otherwise grace is frustrated.
Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.​

In context, grace is frustrated when we seek to be made righteous by keeping it. Grace is not frustrated by obeying it. Grace is complimented by keeping it for the right reasons or as Paul wrote, using it "lawfully".
 
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Stranger

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What IS true grace?

God is loving, God is merciful, but God is also just.
We shouldn't take His laws so lightly.
God is a moral being...He IS morality. He has always demanded obedience...it always sounds to me like those such as yourself preach that we SHOULD NOT sin, but it's kind of OK if we do.

I know you don't believe this...so why speak in such a manner that this is what is understood?

Jesus didn't say the unsaved will go to the other place...
He said THE LAWLESS will go there.
Mathew 7:23
Lawless means to live without the law.

Grace is: God receives and accepts us just like we are because Jesus has made us accepted to God.

Yes, God is just, that is why it cost Him His only Son. Will you say to God, that I can add to that?

No, God is not a 'moral' being. He is God. Morality is man's term. God will not be judged by man.

Well, you preach that we should not sin but you still recognize that you do. So how is that any different? You preach we should not sin, then why are you still sinning? Why should you speak in this manner?

Stranger
 

gadar perets

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Obedience to the Spirit means we have the law inwardly. Being under grace means we have no need of an external law to limit/control our actions. In fact God wants to liberate us to do as we will....but by the Spirit.
I do not obey an external law. I do not obey Ten Commandments written on stone. I obey Ten Commandments written on my heart and mind.
 
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1stCenturyLady

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You could obey God to the nth degree and yet not be eternally secure. One slip and it would be all over.

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. (James 2:10)

It is quite amazing that so many Christians have failed to understand the BASIS of eternal security. And then we have the Messianics who believe that observing the 7th day sabbath makes them eternally secure.

1. Do we really understand the meaning of "the infinite grace of God"?

2. Do we really understand who Christ is -- fully God and fully sinless Man?

3. Do we really understand that the only man who obeyed God's laws and commandments perfectly was the God-Man Christ Jesus?

4. Do we really understand what Christ accomplished on the Cross for our redemption?

5. Do we really understand what Christ accomplished for us in His resurrection?

6. Do we really understand what Christ is presently doing in Heaven on our behalf?

Eternally security is TOTALLY based on God and Christ.

Yes, I agree. The old commandments only showed us our sin. SIN was the problem. And breaking one commandment through sin made us guilty of all. That is what grace is all about. Not the misrepresentation and misinterpretation of unmerited favor, but the power of God to kill the sin nature, making us born again with the mind of Christ. Jesus was manifest to take away our sin, and in Him there is no sin. This is why the baptism of the Holy Spirit is vital in the life of a Christian. It is not enough to call Jesus, Lord, without the power to be righteous. Jesus will only say to them, "I never knew you."

To receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit we must REPENT of all sin. Ask Jesus to scrub us clean and create in us a new heart. Ask Him to give you His Holy Spirit.
 
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