Eternal Security

[Nancy]

Do you still believe the Ten Commandments were the focal point of Jesus' ministry? Is that what He means when He says, "If you love me, keep my commands"?

It seems that many people just see the word "commandment" and, automatically think The Big 10...why I wonder??

 

[Stranger]

I have some sad news for you Stranger, and anyone else reading along who believes they are saved and are not required to obey the law....

God insists that we obey the law.

Please show me a verse or two where Jesus advises us that it's OK not to follow the law.

Thanks.

(Rom. 15:8) "Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God to confirm the promises made unto the fathers"

(Gal. 3:23-25) "But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster."

Yet you want to go back to the 'schoolmaster'.

Stranger

 

[1stCenturyLady]

It seems that many people just see the word "command" and, automatically think The Big 10...why I wonder??

Brainwashing...

 

[GodsGrace]

You still don't understand that to preach you go where there is an audience????

13 Now when Paul and his party set sail from Paphos, they came to Perga in Pamphylia; and John, departing from them, returned to Jerusalem. 14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and sat down. 15 And after the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, “Men and brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.”

Jesus LIVED UNDER THE LAW.

And you wonder why I keep asking if you understand...

You didn't reply to Acts 13:13
You only explained about the preaching on a Sabbath.

Jesus was God...He didn't live under anything.
If He lived under the law, it's the law HE made.

Jesus knew what He was saying...
There was not one set of rules before the cross and another set of rules after the cross.

This would be like declaring that Jesus preached incorrectly and taught wrongly.
This is impossible.

 

[gadar perets]

I know exactly what to do with you. It has taken time to identify your weird beliefs, but it has come out. You say you are of the 'faith of Messiah' in (#305). But the messiah you follow is not the Messiah of the Bible. You deny the Deity of Jesus Christ. (#541) You deny the pre-existence of the Son. (#463)

You mean the Christ of the creeds of men is not the Messiah of the Bible. Let's face it Stranger, if you are a trinitarian, then you have three Gods. Why? Because if the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three separate persons and each is God, then you have three separate Gods. No amount of verbal gymnastics will change that. I know ...its a mystery that mere man cannot understand... yeah, right. In reality it is a mystery "of iniquity" that causes men to commit idolatry.

I do not deny the pre-existence of the Son. He pre-existed in the divine plan within the mind of his Father YHWH.

You want what Christians have yet reject what Christians believe. And so have created your own belief.

I certainly don't want what Christians have (unrepented sins and a God who can die).

 

[GodsGrace]

It seems that many people just see the word "command" and, automatically think The Big 10...why I wonder??

What do YOU think of when you see the word "command"?

 

[Stranger]

Really.
And since when do YOU make up your very own brand of Christianity?
Did you bother to read the links I posted?
Probably not....you'd find out that ...
BELIEVE means OBEY.

There's still time you know.
You could still learn something new.

I seldom go to links. It is not my brand of Christianity. Believe does not mean obey.

Stranger

 

[GodsGrace]

You mean the Christ of the creeds of men is not the Messiah of the Bible. Let's face it Stranger, if you are a trinitarian, then you have three Gods. Why? Because if the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three separate persons and each is God, then you have three separate Gods. No amount of verbal gymnastics will change that. I know ...its a mystery that mere man cannot understand... yeah, right. In reality it is a mystery "of iniquity" that causes men to commit idolatry.

I do not deny the pre-existence of the Son. He pre-existed in the divine plan within the mind of his Father YHWH.


I certainly don't want what Christians have (unrepented sins and a God who can die).

GP
It's not 3 separate persons and you know this very well.

It's not 1 in 3
It's 3 in 1

One God,,,three "persons". If we can call them persons.

God is the creator
Son is His thoughts said in Words (come to live in the flesh)
Holy Spirit is His breath, which gives life.

ONE GOD.
Because it's difficult to understand doesn't mean it's not correct.
Do we understand God?

If you're right, we all are blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
If we're right, you're blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

I think the battle over this should end as it did in Arius' time.
Brains better than ours decided back then that Jesus is God in the flesh.

 

[GodsGrace]

I seldom go to links. It is not my brand of Christianity. Believe does not mean obey.

Stranger

BELIEVE means OBEY.

I've been Christian a really long time Stranger.
There were no links back then.
What's true is true...no matter where the information comes from.

I you don't want to read the links, speak to someone that speaks koine Greek.

 

[Nancy]

Believe does not mean obey.

Stranger

True, Satan believes but he sure doesn't obey!! he trembles..

 

[Stranger]

You mean the Christ of the creeds of men is not the Messiah of the Bible. Let's face it Stranger, if you are a trinitarian, then you have three Gods. Why? Because if the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three separate persons and each is God, then you have three separate Gods. No amount of verbal gymnastics will change that. I know ...its a mystery that mere man cannot understand... yeah, right. In reality it is a mystery "of iniquity" that causes men to commit idolatry.

I do not deny the pre-existence of the Son. He pre-existed in the divine plan within the mind of his Father YHWH.


I certainly don't want what Christians have (unrepented sins and a God who can die).

No, I mean the Christ of the Bible is not the messiah you present. You're a false teacher as I said.

Strange that you call the mystery of God the mystery of iniquity.

That is a lie. You do deny the pre-existence of the Son. As you denied (John 17;5) and (Acts 20:28).

And you don't have what Christians have. And we do not want you. So, what are you doing here, false teacher?

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

BELIEVE means OBEY.

I've been Christian a really long time Stranger.
There were no links back then.
What's true is true...no matter where the information comes from.

I you don't want to read the links, speak to someone that speaks koine Greek.

A lot of Christians have lived a long time. That doesn't mean what you say is so.

Believe means believe. Obey means obey. It is quite simple.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

True, Satan believes but he sure doesn't obey!! he trembles..

Exactly right.

Stranger

 

[GodsGrace]

Believe does not mean obey.

Stranger

John 3:36
Why do you think that some versions say BELIEVE not in the Son and some versions say OBEY not the Son??
Because believe means to obey and the translations was difficult.
One of my links explains this....

New International Version
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them.

New Living Translation
And anyone who believes in God's Son has eternal life. Anyone who doesn't obey the Son will never experience eternal life but remains under God's angry judgment."

English Standard Version
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Berean Study Bible
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.”

Berean Literal Bible
The one believing in the Son has eternal life, but the onenot obeying the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

New American Standard Bible
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

King James Bible
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Christian Standard Bible
The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who rejects the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him.

Contemporary English Version
Everyone who has faith in the Son has eternal life. But no one who rejects him will ever share in that life, and God will be angry with them forever.

Good News Translation
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever disobeys the Son will not have life, but will remain under God's punishment.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him.

International Standard Version
The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who disobeys the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.

NET Bible
The one who believes in the Son has eternal life. The one who rejects the Son will not see life, but God's wrath remains on him.

New Heart English Bible
Whoever believes in the Son has everlasting life, but whoever refuses to believe in the Son won't see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Whoever is trusting in The Son, has The Eternal Life, and whoever disobeys The Son shall not see The Life, but the anger of God shall abide upon him.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, he will see God's constant anger."

New American Standard 1977
“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

Jubilee Bible 2000
He that believes in the Son has eternal life, and he that does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.

King James 2000 Bible
He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him.

American King James Version
He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God stays on him.

American Standard Version
He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Douay-Rheims Bible
He that believeth in the Son, hath life everlasting; but he that believeth not the Son, shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Darby Bible Translation
He that believes on the Son has life eternal, and he that is not subject to the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides upon him.

English Revised Version
He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Webster's Bible Translation
He that believeth on the Son, hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son, shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Weymouth New Testament
He who believes in the Son has the Life of the Ages; he who disobeys the Son will not enter into Life, but God's anger remains upon him.

World English Bible
One who believes in the Son has eternal life, but one who disobeys the Son won't see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."

Young's Literal Translation
he who is believing in the Son, hath life age-during; and he who is not believing the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God doth remain upon him.'

 

[GodsGrace]

A lot of Christians have lived a long time. That doesn't mean what you say is so.

Believe means believe. Obey means obey. It is quite simple.

Stranger

My point, stranger, is this:

I also did not learn from links.
There were NO LINKS in the 70's when I was born again.

I wasn't saying I know it all, as you do since you won't even learn that BELIEVE means OBEY.

Read about it...it's interesting.

 

[GodsGrace]

True, Satan believes but he sure doesn't obey!! he trembles..

Satan does not BELIEVE like YOU BELIEVE.

TO BELIEVE MEANS TO OBEY JOHN 3:16
Posted on March 9, 2013 by Mishayah 37 comments
An excerpt from http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/images/stories/Salvation/John 3 16.pdf

John 3:16:Obeying Unto Christ Should Save?

Introduction

When the English translations of the Greek New Tes- tament were made in the 1526-1611 period, the “difficult Greek in which the New Testament is written…still held mys- teries for” English scholars. (Nicolson: 224.) One of those mysteries was the Greek word pisteuo in John 3:16. In over 200 instances of pisteuo in the New Testament, not once did the King James Bible render it as obey. (See Strong’s Concor- dance.) However, scholars now realize obey was a common meaning of pisteuo in ancient Greek. Obey certainly was the meaning of pisteuo in John 3:36 (see page 448). Yet, this obe- dience salvation formula is identically repeated in John 3:16.

Besides John 3:36 helping, one can more easily accept pisteou means obeys in John 3:16 when one looks at Apostle John’s many quotes of Jesus about obedience. Jesus in John 8:51 says “whoever keeps on obeying (tereo) My Teaching

should never ever die.”1 In John 15:1-10, Jesus says a “branch in me” that does not “bear fruit” is “taken away,”

“cut off from the vine,” thrown “outside and burned.” 2 John likewise quoted Jesus saying in total accord:

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good [things], unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil [things], unto the resurrection of damnation. (John 5:28-29 KJV).

For the rest of this fine article click the link at the top…

Suffice to say that the Paulinists love to quote John 3:16 in order support the faith only doctrine of Paul using Jn 3:16 as their proof text that Yahshua taught the same as Paul, which is ludicrous at best.

‘…that whosever obeys Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.’

In this rendering of John 3:16 it is more than apparent that the salvation that Yahshua taught is completely predicated upon obedience to His teachings. Something that Paul says in 2 Cor 5:16 is also now null and void.

2 Cor 5:16 is easily swallowed by those born of Paul seeing as how Paul claims to be their father thru his spurious and apostate gospel.

However for those who are actually born from above via the Word of Truth that is sown in them this defining of the original Greek word ‘Pisteuo’ meaning ‘to obey’ as opposed to the passive ‘believe’ or faith only’ is simply verification of what they already knew instinctively.

 

[Stranger]

John 3:36
Why do you think that some versions say BELIEVE not in the Son and some versions say OBEY not the Son??
Because believe means to obey and the translations was difficult.
One of my links explains this....

New International Version
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them.

New Living Translation
And anyone who believes in God's Son has eternal life. Anyone who doesn't obey the Son will never experience eternal life but remains under God's angry judgment."

English Standard Version
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Berean Study Bible
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.”

Berean Literal Bible
The one believing in the Son has eternal life, but the onenot obeying the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

New American Standard Bible
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

King James Bible
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Christian Standard Bible
The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who rejects the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him.

Contemporary English Version
Everyone who has faith in the Son has eternal life. But no one who rejects him will ever share in that life, and God will be angry with them forever.

Good News Translation
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever disobeys the Son will not have life, but will remain under God's punishment.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him.

International Standard Version
The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who disobeys the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.

NET Bible
The one who believes in the Son has eternal life. The one who rejects the Son will not see life, but God's wrath remains on him.

New Heart English Bible
Whoever believes in the Son has everlasting life, but whoever refuses to believe in the Son won't see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Whoever is trusting in The Son, has The Eternal Life, and whoever disobeys The Son shall not see The Life, but the anger of God shall abide upon him.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, he will see God's constant anger."

New American Standard 1977
“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

Jubilee Bible 2000
He that believes in the Son has eternal life, and he that does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.

King James 2000 Bible
He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him.

American King James Version
He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God stays on him.

American Standard Version
He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Douay-Rheims Bible
He that believeth in the Son, hath life everlasting; but he that believeth not the Son, shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Darby Bible Translation
He that believes on the Son has life eternal, and he that is not subject to the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides upon him.

English Revised Version
He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Webster's Bible Translation
He that believeth on the Son, hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son, shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Weymouth New Testament
He who believes in the Son has the Life of the Ages; he who disobeys the Son will not enter into Life, but God's anger remains upon him.

World English Bible
One who believes in the Son has eternal life, but one who disobeys the Son won't see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."

Young's Literal Translation
he who is believing in the Son, hath life age-during; and he who is not believing the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God doth remain upon him.'

Believe does not mean obey. It means believe. If any translation translates otherwise it is a poor and inaccurate translation.

There can be obedience to our faith, (Rom. 1:5), but that does not make faith and obedience the same.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

They are not offending me, but the Almighty whose law they break. Also, it is perfectly acceptable to honor every day, especially since YHWH made every day. What is NOT acceptable is to pollute the 7th day by working on it. If you supposedly honor all 7 days, but pollute the 7th, in reality you are dishonoring the day as well as the Creator.

well, i'm not sure what your response to Romans 14:5-6 would be, personally i don't notice anyone who esteems all days alike doing it to the Lord in the passage either, but really what i mean to comment on is this problem that you say you have, in the context of that passage; if it is not acceptable, then what is your next step, or how are you going to proceed with them after this has been discovered? Do you feel you have a responsibility beyond making your opinion of the truth known to them, and if so, what? ty

 

[Stranger]

My point, stranger, is this:

I also did not learn from links.
There were NO LINKS in the 70's when I was born again.

I wasn't saying I know it all, as you do since you won't even learn that BELIEVE means OBEY.

Read about it...it's interesting.

I am not saying I know it all. But I know believe doesn't mean obey. Different words and different meanings.

Stranger

 

[gadar perets]

GP
It's not 3 separate persons and you know this very well.

This is the trinitarian symbol. All three "persons" are separate from each other, but make up the one God. Or do you go by another variety of trinitarianism?

If you're right, we all are blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
If we're right, you're blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

How so for either of us?

I think the battle over this should end as it did in Arius' time.
Brains better than ours decided back then that Jesus is God in the flesh.

Those "better brains" in Arius' time were already corrupt as Paul warned us (Acts 20:29; 2 Thessalonians 2:7). Also, they were battling over Arius' beliefs. I do not believe like Arius.