Fine.
Great.
The last line is:
We MUST obey God.
To say otherwise is not to be a saved Christian who obeys God because he knows God wants him to.
Easy.
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Great.
The last line is:
We MUST obey God.
To say otherwise is not to be a saved Christian who obeys God because he knows God wants him to.
Easy.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
From you saying you have a problem regarding the 4th Commandment, and keep pointing out it is a commandment.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Christians need to understand that the Law of Love (Agape) is indeed the Ten Commandments.
Christ quoted the two greatest commandments from the OT, and said that upon these two hang all the Law and the Prophets.Those two commandments are (1) perfect love for God and (2) unselfish love for others.
MATTHEW 22
35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
The first four of the Ten Commandments are summarized as love for God, while the last six are summarized as love for neighbor. At the same time Christians must understand that it is only by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit that we are enabled to love as God loves, since "agape" is indeed divine love.
So, in brief, the Ten Commandments have been retained in the Law of Christ (also called the the Law of Love, the Law of Liberty, or the Royal Law). And Paul makes this perfectly clear as follows:
ROMANS 13
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love (agape) worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love (agape) is the fulfilling of the law.
I have questions.
I look at doctrine from every angle.
I understand why we worship on Sunday...
But I also understand why some worship on Saturday.
I don't degrade them for this.
I know about the early church and how they worshipped, I know the catholic church (by that time) changed the worship to Sunday as many ECF proclaimed.
Worshipping on the Sabbath was established by God. Is it correct to have changed one of the commandments? Then why can't we change the other ones?
Because I question and think out loud does not mean I keep the Sabbath...questioning something is not acceptance of it, but studying it.
LOL
It's a sign of frustration.
( you keep asking me if I understand things...I UNDERSTAND!!)
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Officially, yes, by making it another law that it was never meant to be. But Christians from the start celebrated Christ's resurrection on Sunday each week as they gathered together. The RCC merely reduced it to law. But the RCC cannot be blamed for the choice of Sunday over Saturday. They just kept the day that had always been kept.
You know, I never thought I'd be arguing for obeying God.
It seems like something that should not spur debate.
Maybe it's all this modern talk of hyper-grace, easy believism and all that...which is what I hear it's called.
I've been a Christian for about 40 years now.
We have all these modern expressions now that we have to deal with:
Walking in faith (what else would we be walking in??)
Under the Law (we know what this means, but maybe we should leave this to the theologians?)
@Enoch111 mentioned the Royal Law...that's a post of itself.
I do like my bottom line...
Love God
Follow God
Obey God
Not much more to say...
(I know you agree)
The Apostles kept Saturday...
They met on Sunday in Acts because Paul was leaving the next day and they wanted to celebrate together.
If you read the Didache (which has pretty much been established is from about 90AD) it does not say what day was celebrated, only how.
TTYTT, I don't dwell on this too much. I don't believe our doctrine saves us, but Jesus does.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Hyper-grace turns the grace of God into licentiousness. It was a Gnostic belief that I see propagated again in reformed theology. It is faith alone without obedience. To me RT is the most dangerous sect of people calling themselves Christians, and Jesus called them those of the dead church. They even believe in and accept homosexual leaders.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Wrong. There is a difference in "keeping" Sabbath, and going to preach where people are gathered on the Sabbath. It is like going to preach down on skid row doesn't make you an alcoholic.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Sunday was never a COMMAND, so why would the Didache mention it. Justyn Martyr does mention, along with what they did, what day they did it - Sunday.
"And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things."
gadar perets
Well-Known Member
They are not offending me, but the Almighty whose law they break. Also, it is perfectly acceptable to honor every day, especially since YHWH made every day. What is NOT acceptable is to pollute the 7th day by working on it. If you supposedly honor all 7 days, but pollute the 7th, in reality you are dishonoring the day as well as the Creator.
Isaiah 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of YHWH, honourable; and shalt honour Him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
Isaiah 58:14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in YHWH; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of YHWH hath spoken it.
Isaiah 58:14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in YHWH; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of YHWH hath spoken it.
What do you mean?
The Apostles always preached.
But what about Acts 13:13?
Also, Jesus worshipped on the Sabbath...
Luke 4:16
I don't think we should continue with this here...
I never saw this. Do you have the source??
If not, no problem; I'll find it.
Martyr is the one that said Jesus' body and blood is in the eucharist....
I find that we like to read and agree with the ECF for some things, but not for others. I do this too...
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
You still don't understand that to preach you go where there is an audience????
13 Now when Paul and his party set sail from Paphos, they came to Perga in Pamphylia; and John, departing from them, returned to Jerusalem. 14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and sat down. 15 And after the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, “Men and brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.”
Jesus LIVED UNDER THE LAW.
And you wonder why I keep asking if you understand...
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Justin Martyr describes Christian worship (c.150 AD)
from chapters 61-67 of Justin’s First Apology
This is found in the books of the Ante-Nicene Fathers (Book 1)
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