Regarding the Holy Spirit and His gifts I believe...

[amadeus]

Were you coached?

No, when I started talking in tongues the first time no one but my wife was by my side. That was in 1976.

 

[Dave L]

Dave:

When did God tell you that gifts, were not for now? You claim to be a believer then surely you hear from God? What exactly did he show you to let you know that these things were false?

Even Santa Claus were he real, would be offended if his gifts were rejected. You cannot believe the Holy Spirit and yet reject his gifts.

If he does not offer these gifts then you must have scriptural evidence.

The simplicity of Jesus' promised Holy Spirit has been perverted and denied by anti - Pentecosts for 2000 years.

Their perversion of the Scriptures are no different than Mormons or any other Bible denying sect. They reshape the word of god to suit their man created denominational doctrines. They lecture in matters they are completely ignorant of. Professing themselves to wise they only reveal their ignorance and appear as babes in the sight of all who have simply taken God at His word.

Brainwashing is no different for either Muslims or denominational members. Deceit is deceit. They argue and fight with believers who simply believe when their fight is with God.

Dave's fight is with God. Let Dave say that God told him that all these things he stands against are no longer for today.

We only have scripture to go by. And you cannot provide scripture saying the gifts came any other way than in the two outpourings or through an apostle's hands.

 

[Dave L]

No, when I started talking in tongues the first time no one but my wife was by my side. That was in 1976.

But you had heard about it and took it for a spin. This did not happen in Acts.

 

[Dave L]

And if we don't, why is that? Did God stop being God? Has God ever changed?

God withdrew the gifts.

 

[Dave L]

No need for that.
I read my bible.

No "special insights"..... this is just another one of your "flash in the pan" quotes...

If you read your bible apart from any church affiliation, I believe you would not make some of the claims you make.

 

[Frank Lee]

I've had the baptism of the Holy Spirit from day one as a Christian. Apart from any church.

The disciples were believers yet didn't have the Holy Spirit until Pentecost.

Believers in Acts 19 hadn't received the Holy Spirit baptism until Paul preached to them.

Acts 19:2 KJVS
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

1 Corinthians 14:37-38 KJVS
If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
[38] But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

 

[amadeus]

Do you understand what you are saying when speaking in tongues?

What a foolish question... as if any answer I would make would make a difference to you. Now will you prove or disprove the existence of God in us by the answers you receive or do not receive? I talk to God. He talks to me. He understands me. I understand Him. This is known as communication. Early on as with a natural baby, the baby makes a lot of noise, often called babble, but if he progresses correctly he will eventually be able to communicate with his parents or syblings or friends.

 

[Dave L]

The disciples were believers yet didn't have the Holy Spirit until Pentecost.

Believers in Acts 19 hadn't received the Holy Spirit baptism until Paul preached to them.

Acts 19:2 KJVS
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

1 Corinthians 14:37-38 KJVS
If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
[38] But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

All true believers have the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. But the gifts had served their purpose when scripture became complete. And it does better what the gifts could only do in part.

 

[Dave L]

What a foolish question... as if any answer I would make would make a difference to you. Now will you prove or disprove the existence of God in us by the answers you receive or do not receive? I talk to God. He talks to me. He understands me. I understand Him. This is known as communication. Early on as with a natural baby, the baby makes a lot of noise, often called babble, but if he progresses correctly he will eventually be able to communicate with his parents or syblings or friends.

First century tongue speakers knew what they were saying.

 

[Frank Lee]

Dave, why are you here? To edify, build up, encourage? Denominational dogma is not edifying.

If we only have scripture why did Jesus say;
John 10:27 KJVS
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

As a sheep what does Jesus say to you regarding these things? Do you deny He speaks to us?

Seeing how you will not receive why are you even here?

 

[Dave L]

Dave, why are you here? To edify, build up, encourage?

To share my blessings in thanksgiving to Christ who provided them.

 

[Helen]

For one, tongues speaking was spontaneous, not learned.

Well praise the Lord...something we agree about.

But unlike you, I have NEVER ever heard anyone even suggest that it could or should be "learned".
That sounds crazy to me!!

 

[amadeus]

I've had the baptism of the Holy Spirit from day one as a Christian. Apart from any church.

Having the Holy Ghost in us and following the lead of the Holy Ghost are two different things. Many people who have received the baptism of the Holy Ghost have been taught to quench that Spirit of God in order to follow the order that men have established in their church services. [Of course there are likely many who have been led to believe they have the Holy Ghost but do not.] Too many of those who have received the Holy Ghost, I believe, carry that same developed habit of quenching the Spirit away from the service with them. This is why so few people today are attracted to what is called Christianity and why so many leave it. Sitting in a pew regularly does not make a person a follower of Christ. There are seemingly many organized groups of men bearing the Christian label.

"Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." II Tim 3:5

 

[Dave L]

Well praise the Lord...something we agree about.

But unlike you, I have NEVER ever heard anyone even suggest that it could or should be "learned".
That sounds crazy to me!!

Many cultures speak in tongues. And science confirms it reduces stress. So no doubt today's Christian tongue speakers get a buzz. But I think they confuse it with spirituality. The purpose of tongues in the first century was it served the place of scripture until the bible became complete. But tongues expired when John completed the Revelation of Jesus Christ. That which is perfect (Greek = complete).

 

[Dave L]

Having the Holy Ghost in us and following the lead of the Holy Ghost are two different things. Many people who have received the baptism of the Holy Ghost have been taught to quench that Spirit of God in order to follow the order that men have established in their church services. [Of course there are likely many who have been led to believe they have the Holy Ghost but do not.] Too many of those who have received the Holy Ghost, I believe, carry that same developed habit of quenching the Spirit away from the service with them. This is why so few people today are attracted to what is called Christianity and why so many leave it. Sitting in a pew regularly does not make a person a follower of Christ. There are seemingly many organized groups of men bearing the Christian label.

"Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." II Tim 3:5

I walk in the Spirit and am afraid not to. The love of Christ is worth more than life itself to me.

 

[amadeus]

The truth sets us free. And I know the difference between my Charismatic years and today.

I am glad you recognize a difference, but even if your were correct in separating yourselves from the place that you were, does not mean that everyone else who speaks tongues is in the wrong place. Stop trying to do all of God's work for Him. No man can do it.

 

[Dave L]

I am glad you recognize a difference, but even if your were correct in separating yourselves from the place that you were, does not mean that everyone else who speaks tongues is in the wrong place. Stop trying to do all of God's work for Him. No man can do it.

If what I say comes from the bible, then it is God's word you are rejecting. BTW, why do we take a survey asking for diverse beliefs in the matter, and then fuss over an alternative belief that we solicited in the first place?

 

[Frank Lee]

To share my blessings in thanksgiving to Christ who provided them.

Then why pray tell, do you deny us the same right?

 

[Dave L]

Then why pray tell, do you deny us the same right?

This is a survey. Why not speak your mind? And let me speak mine? And let the reader decide?

 

[Frank Lee]

This is a survey. Why not speak your mind? And let me speak mine? And let the reader decide?

A forum is just that. You're not going to believe what I do and I'm not turning my back on four decades of seeking God.