Regarding the Holy Spirit and His gifts I believe...

[Frank Lee]

I've had the baptism of the Holy Spirit from day one as a Christian. Apart from any church.

Then you have an experience not reflected in the new testament.

 

[Triumph1300]

But the gifts had served their purpose when scripture became complete.

Scripture???????

 

[Frank Lee]

All true believers have the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. But the gifts had served their purpose when scripture became complete. And it does better what the gifts could only do in part.

Words of knowledge are not needed? Healings are not needed? Discernment of spirits is not needed?

These are denominational arguments that don't hold water. You say you are not denominational yet all your arguments are typical Baptist.

 

[amadeus]

Any departure from the truth brings one closer to the cult mindset.

You still have not defined a cult nor cited scriptures to support your statement. You are the one who insists on doing things according to the scriptures. I have no problem with considering that but on this point certainly you have not done it. What is a cult according to the scriptures? I for one hesitate to call any group that says it is Christian to be a cult so long as I myself don't know all of the answers and I most certainly do not.

 

[amadeus]

God withdrew the gifts.

Really? Why do you give these short answers with no scriptural explanation? I might guess why you believe that, but it would be a guess on my part.

 

[amadeus]

If what I say comes from the bible, then it is God's word you are rejecting. BTW, why do we take a survey asking for diverse beliefs in the matter, and then fuss over an alternative belief that we solicited in the first place?

Well it is not your survey nor mine. I normally to not participate in polls and that is so for this one. I did not complete the blanks. However this thread like most threads on this forum is a place for discussion. We don't have to agree, but all of us should put on charity one toward another even when we disagree.

Disagreement may be rejection and it may not be. As to coming from the Bible, my beliefs also can be found in the Bible even though we disagree. One of the members here [not on this thread at all yet] is likely to ask, "Who is to decide who is right or wrong when the same Bible is used and both parties claim to be led by the Holy Ghost?" I have already given you my answer to this question.

 

[Frank Lee]

Dave said ; First century tongue speakers knew what they were saying.

Really? What about...

1 Corinthians 14:2 KJVS
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him ; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Since some tongues are tongues of angels it's for certain that NO man understood them.

 

[Frank Lee]

Dave said;

God withdrew the gifts.

What about the unchangeability of God?

What about Ecclesiastes PI?

Ecclesiastes 3:14 KJVS
I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it , that men should fear before him.

I know that everything God does will remain forever; there is nothing to add to it and there is nothing to take from it, for God has so worked that men should fear Him.
Ecclesiastes 3:14 NASB

With end times in our very face the gifts of the Holy Spirit are direly needed. The naysayers crow that the Bible is that which is perfect. If it is indeed perfect then why are selected portions discarded.

Instead of a one pot meal it is seen as a buffet where you pick and choose which scriptures suit your denomination and discard the others.

1. The word of wisdom. What to do in or about a situation.

2. The word of knowledge. Information you did not have before the Holy Spirit speaks it into your spirit.

3. Faith. Every man is given a measure of faith but certain ones are given supercharged faith. Men such as Oral Roberts

4. Gifts of healing. I first think of those ministers such as A. A. Allen, R. W. ShamBach.

5. Working of miracles.

6. Prophecy. Many prophets are spread across the earth in God's congregations. It took the Lord awhile to convince me He'd called me to prophesy but it finally sunk in that if was indeed His spirit and little to do with me.

7. Discerning of spirits. This gift is invaluable in knowing how to deal with people.

8. Diverse kinds of tongues. Tongues for interpretation in an assembly. Tongues for intercessory prayer. Tongues for building up of the believers spirit. Tongues for speaking to foreign peoples. (reference the book Before we kill and eat you)

9. Interpretation of tongues. For use both in a congregation of believers and individual believers

The need for these gifts of the Holy Spirit will remain as lo g as men I habit this earth.

 

[Triumph1300]

 

[Frank Lee]

The good fight of faith.

2 Timothy 4:2-5 KJVS
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
[3] For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
[4] And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
[5] But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

The basic rule;

Titus 2:8 KJVS
Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.

 

[Helen]

View attachment 3987

Yes, Interesting day indeed

 

[Triumph1300]

Really? Why do you give these short answers with no scriptural explanation

He has none.
I have been asking all day.
No reply with scripture at all.
Only posting his "opinion".

 

[Willie T]

I have little trouble with people not posting "proof scriptures" with every thought they present, as long as "their opinions" coincide with, and are in harmony with, the major themes I understand from the entire text of the Scriptures.

The truth is that anyone can "prove" we are to hate our parents and kill people who don't agree with us by quoting certain, selected verses. Preachers do that kind of thing all the time.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You blame us!!!
Whether it be in real life...or on a forum...when someone walks into 'a room' and the FIRST thing out of their mouth is they start disagreeing about things.
They don't walk into a room and listen, get the know the feeling of the place, even introduce themselves, or take in the 'atmosphere'...but they walk in and "jump" on things which are very obviously their 'pet peeves' and tell people that what they believe is wrong. His first post was picking on what he didn't like...rather than finding maybe one thing that he could agree with.
In anyones book...that is very ignorant and rude.

As for Sword. He was suspended from the Site because he was an arrogant nagger...and kept on telling everyone that they should be like him, do what he did...and he judged everyones home life without knowing anyone.
Repeatedly he accused us of not witnessing enough ( how did he know? ) Not praising en...enough...again...how on earth did he know? And also he accused us of not healing people enough.
He must have been clairvoyant...

He was judgement, legalist and arrogant. Hence his suspension.
Your memory of him is very 'rose-coloured' .....

You are right.

 

[amadeus]

I have little trouble with people not posting "proof scriptures" with every thought they present, as long as "their opinions" coincide with, and are in harmony with, the major themes I understand from the entire text of the Scriptures.

The truth is that anyone can "prove" we are to hate our parents and kill people who don't agree with us by quoting certain, selected verses. Preachers do that kind of thing all the time.

No proof scriptures on every point is OK, but when a person insists that something is based on the scriptures and it disagrees with your position or mine on that point, is it unreasonable to ask for something more specific? Sometimes I may know where they are coming from and sometimes I really don't have a clue. Very early in my times on Christian Internet Forums I came across quite a few ideas and doctrines that were almost completely foreign to me. I had to watch and listen or ask questions or look things up to even know what they were talking about. They said it was based on scripture and usually it was, but I had not even had a glimmer in that direction. Some of them I have probably taken as part of what I believe... although I would be hard put to name any specifics.

The difficulty of not showing scripture at times is not for someone who knows the scriptures very well from their own reading and studies, but for the newby, the new convert or young person who is not strongly established any where as it could be confusing or misleading. There is always a chance that someone like this is reading through our threads and would really like to understand why a person believes what he believes.

Because of people like these last ones mentioned, I also do not insist that everyone give scriptural support on every point for sometimes they don't really know where it is in scripture or even for sure whether or not it exists. That also is OK but anyone should at least try to be honest about it. Sometimes we all fail to do things in the best way as that is the way of man, but hopefully we are all committed or becoming committed to God to do everything better so that it pleases Him. Let us pray that God help all of us here in that.

 

[bbyrd009]

If what I say comes from the bible, then it is God's word you are rejecting. BTW, why do we take a survey asking for diverse beliefs in the matter, and then fuss over an alternative belief that we solicited in the first place?

this is a great point. It is basically useless to argue beliefs by themselves imo. One's beliefs are completely irrelevant, except as they inform one's actions. There is no judgement for the first, right, only for the second. But of course practically no one comes here with beliefs anyway, "believers" end up being the worst bc they advertise Absolute Truths as Beliefs, and wadr compound the iniquity by using the Bible to do it! This is also why the Bible has been turned into Word, for this express purpose, the one you just expressed.

 

[Dave L]

Well it is not your survey nor mine. I normally to not participate in polls and that is so for this one. I did not complete the blanks. However this thread like most threads on this forum is a place for discussion. We don't have to agree, but all of us should put on charity one toward another even when we disagree.

Disagreement may be rejection and it may not be. As to coming from the Bible, my beliefs also can be found in the Bible even though we disagree. One of the members here [not on this thread at all yet] is likely to ask, "Who is to decide who is right or wrong when the same Bible is used and both parties claim to be led by the Holy Ghost?" I have already given you my answer to this question.

This is why we let the readers decide. We need not argue.

 

[bbyrd009]

we fuss bc on some level we recognize that beliefs lead to works, but we are interested in justifying our own beliefs--which have become Absolute Truths somewhere along the way--not in examining the works that spring from them.
Step 1 turn Bible into Word
Step 2 translate Bible to suit
Step 3 justify beliefs--that are really ATs in our pov--using the Bible
Step 4 die

 

[Dave L]

You still have not defined a cult nor cited scriptures to support your statement. You are the one who insists on doing things according to the scriptures. I have no problem with considering that but on this point certainly you have not done it. What is a cult according to the scriptures? I for one hesitate to call any group that says it is Christian to be a cult so long as I myself don't know all of the answers and I most certainly do not.

I believe "cult" is accepted throughout Christendom as a negative depiction of any group who rejects the Ecumenical Creeds.

 

[bbyrd009]

but hopefully we are all committed or becoming committed to God to do everything better so that it pleases Him. Let us pray that God help all of us here in that.

amen. Who comes here seeking, asking, or knocking lol. We are mostly a room full of teachers with no students lol