Christ returns on the last day, followed but the resurrection, followed by the rapture. Followed by the conflagration of the universe and judgement. Followed by the New Heavens and Earth forever. No 1000 year millennium.
Dispensationalism
- Thread starter Episkopos
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We all want as many people as possible to be saved. But the danger in not seeing the spiritual nature of the kingdom...is that many will not be qualified to enter in based on a lack of knowledge about that preparation. No one goes to the cross by choice....you have to believe it is necessary. Like Jesus when He said...if this cup can pass from Me...but let Your will be done. Jesus had the knowledge of the requirement...and it was still difficult. What of people who have been indoctrinated away from such knowledge. They have no chance.
My people perish for lack of knowledge.
Another biggie that dispies refute is the kingdom of God. That is huge as we are to seek it first. So if you believe it is only in the future....how do you seek the future? So then dispies ignore the gospel of the kingdom saying that it has been replaced by the gospel of grace....for now. Then, they say, before the end the (true) gospel of the kingdom will be preached again to the Jews...since only the Jews are qualified for the kingdom of God.
But this is to be as Esau and sell your own spiritual birthright. The devil wants to put blinders on people so they don't ask, seek and knock. The time to enter into the kingdom is right now! The time to put on Christ is now.
What is the kingdom of God? It is a spiritual place AKA Zion...the heavenly Jerusalem where we walk in holiness with God.
When we abide in Christ we see into that world...with a spiritual sight. Unless a person is born from above he cannot see this.
The kingdom of God doen't come with observation. It isn't a physical thing. The devil sees this could get out of control...if hundreds of millions of believers are trying to enter into the kingdom through the narrow way. If only a small percentage were to succeed...the world would change. Power would be unleashed unlike anything seen up to now.
But this is to be as Esau and sell your own spiritual birthright. The devil wants to put blinders on people so they don't ask, seek and knock. The time to enter into the kingdom is right now! The time to put on Christ is now.
What is the kingdom of God? It is a spiritual place AKA Zion...the heavenly Jerusalem where we walk in holiness with God.
When we abide in Christ we see into that world...with a spiritual sight. Unless a person is born from above he cannot see this.
The kingdom of God doen't come with observation. It isn't a physical thing. The devil sees this could get out of control...if hundreds of millions of believers are trying to enter into the kingdom through the narrow way. If only a small percentage were to succeed...the world would change. Power would be unleashed unlike anything seen up to now.
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Yes, no one goes to the cross by choice, they have to believe it's necessary. This has been my own experience.
Yes, there is a danger in not seeing the spiritual nature of the kingdom. Every day we see men preaching the letter, just as the Pharisees did. They somehow don T see that doing the same thing the Pharisees did does not make your righteousness exceed theirs.
But we are talking about the Jewish people who God has hbrought a temporary blindness on so whenever the word is read, that veil lies on their hearts, and whether or not there are verses that seem to suggest He will one day lift that blindness. He desires mercy. He showed me mercy by lifting/healing my blindness. Why would I insist that with the same mercy He will never heal Israel's blindness. Especially since there are verses that seem to say He one day will?
Yes, there is a danger in not seeing the spiritual nature of the kingdom. Every day we see men preaching the letter, just as the Pharisees did. They somehow don T see that doing the same thing the Pharisees did does not make your righteousness exceed theirs.
But we are talking about the Jewish people who God has hbrought a temporary blindness on so whenever the word is read, that veil lies on their hearts, and whether or not there are verses that seem to suggest He will one day lift that blindness. He desires mercy. He showed me mercy by lifting/healing my blindness. Why would I insist that with the same mercy He will never heal Israel's blindness. Especially since there are verses that seem to say He one day will?
You continue to insult and speak disparagingly of brothers and sisters in Christ. No shame. So you are certainly not speaking on behalf of God, but of Satan (the accuser of the brethren). I am sure Satan is extremely happy about your falsehoods and your baseless slander.
I am talking about what this doctrine does for people. It causes them to be unfruitful in the things of God...to remain unspiritual.
Okay, so I believe in a pretrib gathering, so I am a dispie because I believe this.
But I also walk with God now and know the kingdom of God is in me.
I also believe many other things will happen in the future and believe I will have a new body, just as Jesus did when He rose. If His body had been ONLY spiritual, would they have seen Him? Would Mary have thought He was the gardener?
Prayer Warrior
Well-Known Member
I think you're a little over the top here, Enoch. Calling dispensationalists "dispies" is speaking on behalf of Satan??? You're acting as though he blasphemed God. You really need to get ahold of your defensiveness, or it can eat you alive. Take if from me; I know.
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I also believe in a rapture and a millennial rule. But that doesn't make me a dispensationalist.
And another thought. Will we rule over the nation's in only a spiritual sense? Will there be no actual bodies?
I understand there will be a tangible new earth. Does that mean I can't understand that the kingdom is within me? Does it mean that I hurt and hinder others by my belief? Do I encourage them to not seek the kingdom because I believe the new earth will be tangible?
I understand there will be a tangible new earth. Does that mean I can't understand that the kingdom is within me? Does it mean that I hurt and hinder others by my belief? Do I encourage them to not seek the kingdom because I believe the new earth will be tangible?
Won't we have resurrected/raptured bodies like unto Christ's glorious body?
“Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.” (Philippians 3:21)
Well...I did say earlier that I still wasn't sure if I was a dispie...lol. I took my belief in a pr etrib gathering to mean I was one of "them" and also my belief that He will one day heal the blindness He put on israel, and once again lead her into the desert and speak tenderly to her. I thought these beliefs made me a dispie.
What is spiritual now...will become physical in the next age. That's why we strive to enter into that world now...while we can advance in the kingdom life.
The heavenly Jerusalem is coming down from heaven....to reveal the saints who are walking there NOW.
The denial of the kingdom of God NOW makes you a dispie. The belief that the gospel of grace is different from the gospel of Christ makes you a dispie.
The belief that Jews will have a new gospel preached to them (different from the gospel of grace)...makes you a dispie.
But to believe that a remnant of Jews will turn to God in Christ...is "remnant theology....which is opposed to "Darbyism. It also makes you merciful. I believe a remnant of physical Israel will be saved...AND a remnant of the Gentile churches.
Most Christians will be either accepted as guests to the marriage supper of the lamb...OR be rejected into outer darkness. A few ( a remnant) will be the Bride of Christ....both Jew and Gentile, male and female...from every nation and tongue.
Prayer Warrior
Well-Known Member
It seems to me that the confusion and controversy about the kingdom of God is a result of the either/or thinking that ByGrace mentioned earlier in this thread. Some Christians say the kingdom of God is now and that Christians should take political power (Kingdom Now theology); others say it's in the future. But I believe it's both--that the kingdom of God is active and working in us and through us now with mighty demonstrations of God's power AND that Christ will establish His kingdom government on earth in the future. So, Christians experience one level of His kingdom here and now and a whole other level of it when Christ reigns as King of kings and Lord of lords on this earth.
John the Baptist proclaimed that the kingdom of God is "near" or "at hand" (Mark 1:15). I take this to mean within reach. Of course, Jesus said the kingdom of God within us. Various verses say that Jesus preached the Gospel of the kingdom. He demonstrated the power of the kingdom by healing people and casting out demons. The apostles demonstrated the power of God's kingdom in the same way. Paul spent the last 2 years of his life proclaiming the kingdom of God and teaching about the Lord Jesus Christ.
Here's an interesting anecdote that I believe shows that at one level believers can experience the power of God's kingdom here and now. Sandra Kennedy, who has had a powerful healing ministry for years, tells this story:
One of the first miracles I witnessed was with my own mother who was dying of cancer. My family called me home because Mama was in a coma and the doctors said she only had a few days to live. On the airplane the Lord spoke to me and said, “Tell your mother, ‘Our Father which art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven.’ Tell your mother there is no sickness in heaven!”
She and her sister repeated this to their mom for 5 hours. Her mom came to and Sandra told her that she had a choice to live or die. Her mom chose to live and was healed. I think Sandra has said that her mom lived another 20 years....
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Nancy
Well-Known Member
Huh, I guess I am NOT a Dip after all!!! Lol
You might want to check out the lies Episkopos has been dropping into the various threads over the last little while. He has been claiming that Dispensationalists believe exactly what unbelieving Jews believe. Now tell me if that is not over the top? All lies against Christians (from inside or outside) come from the father of lies.
Naomi25
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I'm sorry...how does national conversion contradict "my kingdom is not of this world"? We are all members of that Kingdom...which is not of this world. If the Jews came to Christ in large numbers, they would belong to this Kingdom as well, wouldn't they?
And yes...they would 'abandon Judaism'...to the extent that they followed it hoping it led to salvation. But we know from Paul's teaching that many of the early Jewish converts were told that it was not shameful or wrong for them to hold to their Jewish traditions out of respect of their forefathers and heritage, as long as they placed their faith and hope in Christ alone. In other words...he told them if they still wanted to observe circumcision, or the festivals, then go ahead, as long as they knew those things had been shadows of the new covenant, of Christ. And that they could not hold Gentiles to those same things.
So...if it was like that then, how should it be different now?
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