Proof: You were only forgiven of your past sins!

[Dave L]

Hint: I do indeed fully acknowledge divinity of Christ. He is indeed God, the Son of God to be more specific. He, the Father, and the Spirit are three different persons in one God.

I worship God, not sinners. It deeply saddens me that you elevate sinners the way you do. I wish only that you will grow closer to God and dive deeper into prayer with Him and study of His words.

Chances are your "trinitarian" belief came from the Ecumenical Creeds. Handed down over the centuries. Maybe not directly but through your teachers. I do not place creeds above scripture any more than I place other books above scripture. But I'll say this, most of what you hear today can be offset by historic truths that have stood the test of time.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Chances are your "trinitarian" belief came from the Ecumenical Creeds. Handed down over the centuries. Maybe not directly but through your teachers. I do not place creeds above scripture any more than I place other books above scripture. But I'll say this, most of what you hear today can be offset by historic truths that have stood the test of time.

No.

I do not hold manmade documents of any authoritarian value. Some can be nice documents (like I like the Apostles Creed) but they have no authoritarian weight in my mind. You have thoroughly convinced me that your blindly worship them, and hence we have zero to talk about. I can only pray for you.

 

[Dave L]

No.

I do not hold manmade documents of any authoritarian value. Some can be nice documents (like I like the Apostles Creed) but they have no authoritarian weight in my mind. You have thoroughly convinced me that your blindly worship them, and hence we have zero to talk about. I can only pray for you.

But if you agree with a creed, The Apostle's Creed for instance, why all the fuss?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

But if you agree with a creed, The Apostle's Creed for instance, why all the fuss?

Because of the First Great Commandment.

I like the Apostle's Creed, I also like "Silent Night" and many other things crafted by men. But I love scripture and I worship God: He comes first. I do not automatically deny anyone's relationship with God or say "they don't know the Bible" or deny anyone's relationship with Christ. Furthermore, I happily answer questions about my faith and respect those I talk to (even if they completely disagree with me on faith).

Your emphasis on the Creeds violates the First Great Commandment, your treatment of others on here violates the Second Great Commandment, and your inability to even address basic questions shows a lack of study/reflection/humility.

Again, I did NOT want to conclude any of the above paragraph. I am very unhappy as I write these words. But the overwhelming evidence gives me no other choice.

 

[Dave L]

Because of the First Great Commandment.

I like the Apostle's Creed, I also like "Silent Night" and many other things crafted by men. But I love scripture and I worship God: He comes first. I do not automatically deny anyone's relationship with God or say "they don't know the Bible" or deny anyone's relationship with Christ. Furthermore, I happily answer questions about my faith and respect those I talk to (even if they completely disagree with me on faith).

Your emphasis on the Creeds violates the First Great Commandment, your treatment of others on here violates the Second Great Commandment, and your inability to even address basic questions shows a lack of study/reflection/humility.

Again, I did NOT want to conclude any of the above paragraph. I am very unhappy as I write these words. But the overwhelming evidence gives me no other choice.

You are judging my motives which only God knows. It's OK, but I wouldn't share what I have unless motivated by love.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

You are judging my motives which only God knows. It's OK, but I wouldn't share what I have unless motivated by love.

I'm not a mind reader. I can only draw conclusions by the fruit/evidence you show me here.

 

[bbyrd009]

It speaks volumes and I've proven my point if you are anti-trinitarian. Case closed.

Dave, i don't say this lightly bc i know you cannot hear me, and i can only tarnish my rep among those whose opinion i care about bc this will be taken as gratuitous, but you tick every single box for Full Blown Psychopath, and i don't mean a little psychopathic like we all are, i mean Peter Griffin on steroids ok. And it is self-inflicted too, just so you know. I can provide the list if you like, but one need look no further than this thread either. No doubt you have already heard this, when you were being defrocked?

the I'm rubber you're glue thing, and the not being able to answer?
Answers to innocent or pointed questions don't work out so well for you, do they
i could go on if you like

 

[bbyrd009]

If you do not believe the trinity doctrine, we have nothing to discuss.

how is it that you still imagine you have ever had a discussion with me Dave

see all you are doing is the i'm rubber you're glue thing ok, i guess i'll be getting called a psychopath here in a second too lol

 

[amadeus]

It's fantastic to hear about your great pastor and that you've found good homes online. I've found that... online can be a rough place. I do like it here.

Thank you. Presently this one is the best one for me all things considered but when I have time I can and do visit some of the others.

 

[amadeus]

what was your handle at GNC amadeus?
you aren't Paw bac?

I am not sure which forum that is. I have never used that 'handle". Other than Amadeus sometimes with a number added to it, I have used, HisServant, BottomRung, diosmeama, Diostebendiga, soydedios, and Lessthanany. I believe that is all of them.

 

[bbyrd009]

I am not sure which forum that is. I have never used that 'handle". Other than Amadeus sometimes with a number added to it, I have used, HisServant, BottomRung, diosmeama, Diostebendiga, soydedios, and Lessthanany. I believe that is all of them.

ah, ok, GoodNewsCafe, talked with Maw but i only ever heard about Paw

 

[bbyrd009]

bc they are on a steady diet of tares

and i mean me too btw; i am a Christian too, i sang "when we all get to heaven" too, i am not any better than anyone who still sings it, and in fact i might be quite a bit worse in some other area where it's maybe even more important too

 

[amadeus]

I have the same basic experience as you. Only I clawed my way out of today's popular religion thinking the truth doesn't change. So I began looking at the strain of truth common to all churches in the creeds. Rejecting their added denominational biases. Without this, I had nothing but the lens of whatever church I attended to look at scripture through. Of course the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth, but we need to be exposed to it before He can sort it out for us.

As I said your words could almost be my own at certain times, but still we are quite a ways apart in a number of things as seen by our discussions here. Only God really knows the reasons for that separation...

One thing I will say is that I take in what the scriptures says often by simply reading them through continuously chronologically rather than simply study certain topics. During my reading I will also interrupt myself to talk to God at the end of each short chapter or more frequently when reading longer chapters. As you may already know I regularly read the scriptures in three languages. That also gives me a different perspective.

Years ago I used to study many specific topics but I seldom do that any more. When a question on a subject [topic] comes to my attention now [sometimes on forums like this] if a definite answer doesn't come to me I will sometimes check through my old writings and studies which are all now saved in my computer. I also often copy and save good comments or studies done by others into my computer for reference.

When I find writings related to the question I quite often will rewrite and revise one or more of them in the moment while saving a copy also of the original. As you might guess I have literally hundreds of such writings dating back from long before there were Christian Internet forums or even before I owned my own computer. Some of the old ones I wrote long hand or typed on my manual typewriter.

Sometimes I am surprised by where I was on a subject years ago compared to where I am now. God certainly has changed me. To you I would say, don't hold yourself too strongly to what you presently consider absolute or essential. Growth toward God almost always in my experience mean changes made in me. God will not force us to change. He will not break through our brick walls unless we allow Him to do so.

 

[Dave L]

As I said your words could almost be my own at certain times, but still we are quite a ways apart in a number of things as seen by our discussions here. Only God really knows the reasons for that separation...

One thing I will say is that I take in what the scriptures says often by simply reading them through continuously chronologically rather than simply study certain topics. During my reading I will also interrupt myself to talk to God at the end of each short chapter or more frequently when reading longer chapters. As you may already know I regularly read the scriptures in three languages. That also gives me a different perspective.

Years ago I used to study many specific topics but I seldom do that any more. When a question on a subject [topic] comes to my attention now [sometimes on forums like this] if a definite answer doesn't come to me I will sometimes check through my old writings and studies which are all now saved in my computer. I also often copy and save good comments or studies done by others into my computer for reference.

When I find writings related to the question I quite often will rewrite and revise one or more of them in the moment while saving a copy also of the original. As you might guess I have literally hundreds of such writings dating back from long before there were Christian Internet forums or even before I owned my own computer. Some of the old ones I wrote long hand or typed on my manual typewriter.

Sometimes I am surprised by where I was on a subject years ago compared to where I am now. God certainly has changed me. To you I would say, don't hold yourself too strongly to what you presently consider absolute or essential. Growth toward God almost always in my experience mean changes made in me. God will not force us to change. He will not break through our brick walls unless we allow Him to do so.

What I found is that once indoctrinated, it's hard to interpret scripture apart from that bias. I had to see what other believers were saying and why. This led to a study of the creeds and theology. But the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth once exposed to it. But reading the bible alone is good if you haven't been contaminated by doctrinal error already. And you feel further understanding of the truth will not make you more free.

 

[Dave L]

how is it that you still imagine you have ever had a discussion with me Dave

see all you are doing is the i'm rubber you're glue thing ok, i guess i'll be getting called a psychopath here in a second too lol

I have trouble understanding you most of the time. If it is an act, please drop it. If it is a condition, I'll make a greater effort.

 

[amadeus]

How about the trinity? Do you agree with this doctrine?

Perhaps a better question, Dave, would be do any of us now have any errors in where we now stand? Do I or do you have any errors in what we now believe?

Unless a person has completely overcome the world already as Jesus did, the answer should be, No. Until we can say, Yes, if that ever should happen before they shovel the dirt over our faces, how can we be so absolutely certain that what we believe with regarding to the deity of Jesus or the doctrine of the trinity is correct? This comes back to my attempt to return to the bottom again and again in order to allow God to elevate me instead of elevating myself. Remember these verse:


Luk 14:8 When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him;


Luk 14:9 And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room.


Luk 14:10 But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.


Luk 14:11 For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

 

[Dave L]

Dave, i don't say this lightly bc i know you cannot hear me, and i can only tarnish my rep among those whose opinion i care about bc this will be taken as gratuitous, but you tick every single box for Full Blown Psychopath, and i don't mean a little psychopathic like we all are, i mean Peter Griffin on steroids ok. And it is self-inflicted too, just so you know. I can provide the list if you like, but one need look no further than this thread either. No doubt you have already heard this, when you were being defrocked?

the I'm rubber you're glue thing, and the not being able to answer?
Answers to innocent or pointed questions don't work out so well for you, do they
i could go on if you like

Could you please translate this into business style writing?

 

[Dave L]

Perhaps a better question, Dave, would be do any of us now have any errors in where we now stand? Do I or do you have any errors in what we now believe?

Unless a person has completely overcome the world already as Jesus did, the answer should be, No. Until we can say, Yes, if that ever should happen before they shovel the dirt over our faces, how can we be so absolutely certain that what we believe with regarding to the deity of Jesus or the doctrine of the trinity is correct? This comes back to my attempt to return to the bottom again and again in order to allow God to elevate me instead of elevating myself. Remember these verse:


Luk 14:8 When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him;


Luk 14:9 And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room.


Luk 14:10 But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.


Luk 14:11 For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Do you believe the Trinity doctrine? The Deity of Christ?

 

[Dave L]

I'm not a mind reader. I can only draw conclusions by the fruit/evidence you show me here.

That's fair enough.

 

[amadeus]

can a leopard change its spots?

Perhaps he cannot, but that like us changing ourselves from a seemingly without hope sinner to one set apart by God [a saint]. It is possible for God if it is according to His will. Most leopards however will probably never change their spots.


"Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able." Luke 13:24