Believers stay righteous through their obedience

[bbyrd009]

Did Jesus die for you? yes or no.

this "yes or no" stuff then becomes a sign, see; yes, Jesus died "for" you, and no, Jesus did not die for you, both are true in a sense

Did Jesus pay the price / (fine) for you? Yes or no.

oh, definitely not, else you would not be called to pick up your own cross and follow, right, i mean even a determinist should be able to see this?

Again it all comes down to, our righteousness is in Christ, it is not our own, does not belong to us, you can not earn it, you cannot pay for it, you cannot steal it, you cannot take it, it is Given to you when your believe.

i guess what is most often given is Seven Worse Spirits and Twice the Sons of Hell, just like Jesus said!

so wadr it does not come down to that at all, and this is what comes of making Jesus into an idol to be worshipped imo. You infer a judgement of beliefs that you cannot Quote, and you deny a judgement of works that you can Quote? ok

There is not one thing you can do to put on your own righteousness, Is is as filthy rags.

sorry, but this is warped, we are plainly told to seek our own salvation, and the filthy rags are for a diff concept entirely, when you state your bold new vision for the future that you maybe want me to sign onto and pledge to implement or something like that, rather than works meet for salvation which i guess you haven't gotten to that part yet

 

[bbyrd009]

Seems to fit just fine.....

ok, well we'll let you be the judge if you want, and we can all be Poor Joan, fine with me

 

[amadeus]

i go around on this quite a bit i guess, but i reviewed the statements and they seem clear enough for them to refute at least, should anyone care to?

People can read and not understand even as they can hear and not understand. Some presume that because they have drawn what seems to them to be logical conclusion it must be correct. God really is not bound by logic, although He is certainly not illogical. How do we understand God?

 

[bbyrd009]

People can read and not understand even as they can hear and not understand. Some presume that because they have drawn what seems to them to be logical conclusion it must be correct. God really is not bound by logic, although He is certainly not illogical. How do we understand God?

there just is no way i know of to have a discussion about emancipation with a Southern plantation owner, so to speak, and i use the allusion bc it fits so well with most believers. I don't really expect a reply to stuff like

bc there is no judgement for beliefs, and beliefs never saved anyone!

bc i also would not expect a plantation owner to agree that emancipation is the only moral choice
even if the comparison could not really be made any clearer until one tried at least, but we both know that isn't going to happen i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

although He is certainly not illogical.

oh, pretty sure i could make a fab case for an Illogical God from our pov :)

 

[amadeus]

there just is no way i know of to have a discussion about emancipation with a Southern plantation owner, so to speak, and i use the allusion bc it fits so well with most believers. I don't really expect a reply to stuff like
bc i also would not expect a plantation owner to agree that emancipation is the only moral choice
even if the comparison could not really be made any clearer until one tried at least, but we both know that isn't going to happen i guess

I remember reading about Thomas Jefferson who really wanted to have slavery abolished, get rid of slavery, but he was too dependent on it himself to even begin by freeing his own slaves. He understood that it was a problem in himself but could never begin the process.

Others did not even understand why it was wrong to have so much control over other people... even to own them.

Similarly, I guess, as you indicated, many people apparently believe in God but they are very fixed by their own circumstances and attitudes. They cannot seriously consider that the other guy may be right while they might be wrong. The availability and belief in such things as OSAS do not help the situation. But, it is not only that one. There are other doctrines and ways of supposedly serving God that also have people locked into place. To even think about changing is often treated as if it were blasphemy.

 

[bbyrd009]

The availability and belief in such things as OSAS do not help the situation. But, it is not only that one. There are other doctrines and ways of supposedly serving God that also have people locked into place. To even think about changing is often treated as if it were blasphemy.

hard to see how that serves God, huh
why do many need to be deceived?

which i'm already seeing is a moot Q, a pov Q, but nevermind for now

 

[amadeus]

oh, pretty sure i could make a fab case for an Illogical God from our pov :)

I don't doubt it, but "logic" itself according to most men's definition may be the problem. It is like the scientific method I learned about in school. We nearly [or, always] start with certain assumptions and then we build on that presumed platform. If what we presume turn out to in error, the whole thing will fall apart.

 

[justbyfaith]

There is really no need to change another's point of view unless you think it might have an effect on salvation, ultimately, from my perspective.

re #246.

 

[bbyrd009]

I don't doubt it, but "logic" itself according to most men's definition may be the problem. It is like the scientific method I learned about in school. We nearly [or, always] start with certain assumptions and then we build on that presumed platform. If what we presume turn out to in error, the whole thing will fall apart.

as we can witness, even the most logical approach to Scripture can be easily discounted imo

 

[bbyrd009]

There is really no need to change another's point of view unless you think it might have an effect on salvation, ultimately, from my perspective.

re #246.

i guess we would have to come to an agreement what "salvation" even means though

 

[amadeus]

hard to see how that serves God, huh
why do many need to be deceived?

which i'm already seeing is a moot Q, a pov Q, but nevermind for now

I really see the delusion from God [II Thess 2:11] as being a key to understanding why so many are deceived. The delusion comes from not loving truth. What is seldom understood is that we need to love truth even when we do not understand what truth is. In the beginning of our walk with God none of really does... understand truth. We are to love it anyway. People decide they know what truth is and proceed to try to love that which they have decided is truth. In doing this they often or usually prevent growth.

What I love today may be enough, but for each day that passes will it continue to be enough? As we learn more about what love is, will it remains exactly what we first concluded that it was? Am I making sense?

 

[bbyrd009]

As we learn more about what love is, will it remains exactly what we first concluded that it was? Am I making sense?

yes, although "forgot our first love" is maybe how Scripture puts it? Which i have never seen this defined very well imo,
what is our 'first love?'

 

[amadeus]

yes, although "forgot our first love" is maybe how Scripture puts it? Which i have never seen this defined very well imo,
what is our 'first love?'

What indeed?

"Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love." Rev 2:1-4

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

 

[Jay Ross]

i go around on this quite a bit i guess, but i reviewed the statements and they seem clear enough for them to refute at least, should anyone care to?

I cannot because of the size of the hook that you used. I can't get my mouth around it.

 

[bbyrd009]

I cannot because of the size of the hook that you used. I can't get my mouth around it.

ok, i get you, so, i made two statements,

there is no judgement for beliefs

beliefs never saved anyone

so since i can't see your perspective, bam rephrase the statements first if you like, no prob, and ty

 

[justbyfaith]

i guess we would have to come to an agreement what "salvation" even means though

That will take you studying your Bible until you understand what it means when it says "salvation."

I'm pretty sure I understand what it means when it mentions that word, although I will continue to study in the case that I may be wrong. By the time you come to an understanding of it, I will have already known it for many years, by my estimation of things.

This based on the fact that I go to scripture for my definitions, while you appear to have an attitude of unbelief towards many things in scripture.

 

[bbyrd009]

That will take you studying your Bible until you understand what it means when it says "salvation."

ok tks, what a humble guy
lol

By the time you come to an understanding of it, I will have already known it for many years, by my estimation of things.

no doubt. Pretty sure your penis is a lot bigger than mine, too

This based on the fact that I go to scripture for my definitions, while you appear to have an attitude of unbelief towards many things in scripture.

you are amazing, i'm sure pretty much anyone would agree; all hail jbf pls, his temple is apparently complete
Now if only you would address the post, that would be great, tks

There is really no need to change another's point of view unless you think it might have an effect on salvation, ultimately, from my perspective.

how can you have a perspective here if you do not have at least a working def for "salvation?" ty

 

[Jay Ross]

i go around on this quite a bit i guess, but i reviewed the statements and they seem clear enough for them to refute at least, should anyone care to?

I cannot because of the size of the hook that you used. I can't get my mouth around it.​

ok, i get you, so, i made two statements,

so since i can't see your perspective, bam rephrase the statements first if you like, no prob, and ty

I assume then that you are not fishing? LOL
If the hook that you are using is to big, the fish will not/cannot bite.

 

[justbyfaith]

ok tks, what a humble guy
lol

Indeed lol.

Did I ever tell you about the time someone gave me an award for humility and I then pinned it up on my wall? True Story!