Believers stay righteous through their obedience

[Nancy]

Me tinx yoo iz rite!

 

[justbyfaith]

when you confess, right?
i mean as opposed to...Heb or whoever, HR, who do not need to ever confess in their model

Initial salvation is through placing your faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:25, Romans 5:1, Romans 5:9, Romans 10:8-13), and establishes a permanent position in Christ.

1 John 1:9 was given in order to deal with problems that developed from a misunderstanding of such verses as Hebrews 6:1-8 and Hebrews 10:26-31; and also has nothing to do with position but rather with relationship/fellowship/communion.

In other words, when we sin as believers, it does not change our position, but our fellowship/relationship/communion is breached when we sin. We continue to be sons even when we blow it: we retain our identity in Christ, that we are righteous in Him (Romans 4:5). So then, when we confess our sins as believers, relationship is restored but our position was never affected in the first place.

 

[bbyrd009]

Initial salvation is through placing your faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:25, Romans 5:1, Romans 5:9, Romans 10:8-13), and establishes a permanent position in Christ.

i doubt it wadr, but ty. The demons even got that

1 John 1:9 was given in order to deal with problems that developed from a misunderstanding of such verses as Hebrews 6:1-8 and Hebrews 10:26-31;

um, i don't think so, but maybe

and also has nothing to do with position but rather with relationship/fellowship/communion.

so you say, but i don't know :)

In other words, when we sin as believers, it does not change our position, but our fellowship/relationship/communion is breached when we sin. We continue to be sons even when we blow it: we retain our identity in Christ, that we are righteous in Him (Romans 4:5). So then, when we confess our sins as believers, relationship is restored but our position was never affected in the first place.

ok, ty. sounds like some self-serving goin on i guess

 

[farouk]

Initial salvation is through placing your faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:25, Romans 5:1, Romans 5:9, Romans 10:8-13), and establishes a permanent position in Christ.

1 John 1:9 was given in order to deal with problems that developed from a misunderstanding of such verses as Hebrews 6:1-8 and Hebrews 10:26-31; and also has nothing to do with position but rather with relationship/fellowship/communion.

In other words, when we sin as believers, it does not change our position, but our fellowship/relationship/communion is breached when we sin. We continue to be sons even when we blow it: we retain our identity in Christ, that we are righteous in Him (Romans 4:5). So then, when we confess our sins as believers, relationship is restored but our position was never affected in the first place.

Position and condition are distinct, yes, indeed!

 

[mjrhealth]

It is "faith" that please God. It is Faith that says." God I believe you and I trust you". and that is what puts the biggest smile on His face. But so many dont believe, and so insist on trying to earn there salvation.

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

And so we rest in Him in the Hope and knowing that He will accomplish all He set out to do,

Without Love we are and have nothing.

 

[bbyrd009]

ok, ty. sounds like some self-serving goin on i guess

but ya, i wouldn't pursue that either i guess
lol

 

[bbyrd009]

Position and condition are distinct, yes, indeed!

certainly sounded logical to me!

too bad it's all a bunch of horse manure huh

 

[Helen]

certainly sounded logical to me!

too bad it's all a bunch of horse manure huh

Hey , watch your mouth
It sure makes much more sense than those who believe you are saved one moment and lost the other, as easily as that!!

 

[bbyrd009]

Hey , watch your mouth
It sure makes much more sense than those who believe you are saved one moment and lost the other, as easily as that!!

then imo we should lose our bad defs of "saved" and "lost," rather than denying "Little children don't be deceived" imo, bc there is no judgement for beliefs, and beliefs never saved anyone!

 

[Helen]

then imo we should lose our bad defs of "saved" and "lost," rather than denying "Little children don't be deceived" imo, bc there is no judgement for beliefs, and beliefs never saved anyone!

Well I guess this is a non-starter , because you don't believe that we are ever secure while here.
You don't believe what it says when it says in 1 John " These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." So as we don't start at this same point.. I guess we will never see 'eye to eye'.

Position and condition are what is shown in the scriptures.
Our spiritual position is secure...In Christ.
Our condition is a daily thing, of choice and of following ( taking up cross etc) It is our condition and what choices we make daily that will determine where we will be in the kingdom.

Again...I don't think we have a starter here, as we are each standing at different ends of the elephant. :)

 

[bbyrd009]

Well I guess this is a non-starter , because you don't believe that we are ever secure while here.

you say this but i am the one saying how i dunno how life could be any better, and they are the ones assuring me the sky is falling, even though when pressed all i get is crickets or justifications. So wadr i would also examine our definitions of "secure," and also "while here," what does this mean? Which i suspect will provide the key to all of this, that being that "saved" means something different to the Death More Abundantly crowd than it does the Life More Abundantly ones, and also that a market is created for this (false sense of) "security," that many have already recognized

 

[bbyrd009]

You don't believe what it says when it says in 1 John

i just have found better definitions for the terms in that v wadr, and read logically = wisdom hidden from the wise imo. I believe what it says, honest

 

[bbyrd009]

Position and condition are what is shown in the scriptures.

p & s are a characterization of what you currently hear in the Scriptures, yes, but i suggest that ambiguous terms are being used on purpose to allow us to reach or even jump to our own conclusions

Our condition is a daily thing, of choice and of following ( taking up cross etc) It is our condition and what choices we make daily that will determine where we will be in the kingdom.

where we will be, but not where we are?

Iow you mean after you have literally died, right?

Again...I don't think we have a starter here

word

 

[Zachary]

You don't believe what it says when it says in 1 John
"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."

So, we go back to the question of whether our understanding of "believe" is correct.
The world-famous Spirit-filled evangelist, Dr. Lester Sumrall, was just as mystified
as I have been about all of these so-called conflicting NT passages.
So, he took it upon himself to research it all out, and came to the conclusion
that the NT usage of the Greek word "pisteou" (believe) must mean:
believe, have faith, trust, and obey.

It is common knowledge that some Greek words have different meanings
in the secular Greek world than in the NT.

 

[justbyfaith]

Romans 10:16, and 1 Peter 2:6-8 would appear to be verses where it is indicated that believing is synonymous with obeying.

However the Greek word for "believe" means only "believe", as far as I can tell; and therefore our understanding that to believe is to obey must come from our reading of the Bible and not from our Greek and/or English definitions.

 

[farouk]

Romans 10:16, and 1 Peter 2:6-8 would appear to be verses where it is indicated that believing is synonymous with obeying.

However the Greek word for "believe" means only "believe", as far as I can tell; and therefore our understanding that to believe is to obey must come from our reading of the Bible and not from our Greek and/or English definitions.

Romans begins and ends with 'obedience to the faith'; 'the obedience of faith'.

 

[amadeus]

then imo we should lose our bad defs of "saved" and "lost," rather than denying "Little children don't be deceived" imo, bc there is no judgement for beliefs, and beliefs never saved anyone!

Sometimes my friend I believe your way is quite clear. You pull no punches but many are so far removed they do not have a clue as to what you are talking about. I would guess that when you do have God's message for some there is simply no interpreter. What is it that apostle Paul wrote on this?

"If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.' I Cor 14:27-28

I am not telling your to be quiet, because I and others usually or maybe for some even always understanding your words... then it is sometimes, Word.

"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Matt 11:15

Give God the glory!

 

[mjrhealth]

I guess it really is not that hard,

Did Jesus die for you? yes or no. IF he didnt than this whole thing is a wast of our time.
Did Jesus pay the price / (fine) for you? Yes or no. If He did than why are you trying to add to the cost, If he hasnt, than again this whole thing is w waste of our time.
Are Gods promises true or not, If they are not than we are wasting our time, if they are than why dont you believe Him?
Are you secure in Christ or not, If you are not than dont you believe He can sorry has saved you, and what than is your Faith in if not unto salvation.

Again it all comes down to, our righteousness is in Christ, it is not our own, does not belong to us, you can not earn it, you cannot pay for it, you cannot steal it, you cannot take it, it is Given to you when your believe. There is not one thing you can do to put on your own righteousness, Is is as filthy rags.

Now unless you reject Christ, cast Him out like a demon, dont you think He will keep His promise, look at Israel, God will save them it is His promise to them, He is not like a man that the might change His mind.

So little faith.

Mat 8:25 And his disciples came to him, and awoke him, saying, Lord, save us: we perish.
Mat 8:26 And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.

Seems to fit just fine.....

 

[mjrhealth]

One last little one

If you have no Assurance in God, than the price "you" pay for your "insurance" will never be enough.

 

[bbyrd009]

Sometimes my friend I believe your way is quite clear. You pull no punches but many are so far removed they do not have a clue as to what you are talking about. I would guess that when you do have God's message for some there is simply no interpreter.

i go around on this quite a bit i guess, but i reviewed the statements and they seem clear enough for them to refute at least, should anyone care to?