Why Baptize a Baby?

[Enoch111]

I said we are imputed with Adams sin, just like scripture says.

But that is NOT what Scripture says. Impacting (affecting one) is not the same as imputation (putting to one's account). Adam's disobediences IMPACTED the human race. Kindly study Roms 5 in depth. But there was no imputation there. Only Christ's righteousness is imputed to the one who believes (kindly study Romans 4).

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Hi Jane,

That makes no sense. You are suggesting that we NEVER use history to determine Truth?

Correct.
Truth comes from God.

Do you believe the 27 books of the NT are the true books that God wants us to have? Do you know how you got the 27 books of the Bible you read? Who wrote the book of Acts?

Historically, Christians have been practicing infant baptism for 2,000 years. Over 1,500 years later the reformers came along and convinced some of their fellow Christians that infant baptism was not biblical. Wouldn’t the people who lived closer to the time of Christ know better than the reformers?

What you seem to be suggesting that for 1,500 years the “imperfect victor” convinced all Christians that infant baptism was biblical and the Reformers came galloping in on their white horses and saved us from the lies of The Church. Is that a fair assessment of what you are suggesting?

If God is the teacher of The Truth who is the student of The Truth? YOU? The leaders of the CC? Luther? Calvin? Who is this student you are speaking of??

Curious Mary

Mary, I know that this isn't going to make much sense to you, but I don't look to men or popular vote or history to determine Truth. All of your arguments here have a foundation in sand for me. I go to the source of Truth (God) and ask Him. That's my way. I do honestly respect that you believe otherwise care about these other things-- I 100% respect that's you and your faith. But you're not going to convince me to share it.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Ok....now you really have me confused.

We went from being imputed with Adams sin to being held responsible for Adams sin??? I never said suggested implied or thought we are responsible for Adams sin.

Do you believe an infant must be baptized to forgive Adam's sin?

I said we are imputed with Adams sin, just like scripture says.

Not all Christians believe that.

 

[Marymog]

But that is NOT what Scripture says. Impacting (affecting one) is not the same as imputation (putting to one's account). Adam's disobediences IMPACTED the human race. Kindly study Roms 5 in depth. But there was no imputation there. Only Christ's righteousness is imputed to the one who believes (kindly study Romans 4).

Bible study.....love it.

God told Adam and Eve if they eat the fruit they would die (Genesis 2:16-17) Did they die when they ate the fruit? No, they didn’t. Scripture makes it clear they brought sin into the world.

Now read 1 Corinthians 15:21-23 and put it and Genesis in context with Romans 5:12-19 and you will see why it is important to read all of scripture on a certain matter.

We are, as scripture says, imputed or ascribed to sin thru one man (Adam) and, as scripture says, ALL have sinned.

Are you suggesting that infants are not part of “all”?

Bible Study Mary

 

[brakelite]

Because history is the imperfect recounting of imperfect events told by the imperfect victor. It has little to do with Truthfulness, and much to do with military/political/popularity might.

That same imperfections Victor is also in the powerful position of cementing his erroneous doctrines in the mindsets of the world after having eliminated all the opposition, destroyed their writings, and altered their testimonies. For example. How do we really know what Arius taught regarding the Godhead. There is only a miniscule remaining of anything he wrote, and that could so readily have been forged and accepted as genuine the being nothing remaining to contradict it. Yet there are writings from another missionary , Wulfilas, who brought about the conversion of the Goths who also we labelled a Arians. Yet Wulfilas wrote of a God quite in accordance with scripture. But not in accordance with doctrine of the Trinity. History is better understood when viewed from the perspective of the loser. Add to the above Trinitarian scenario the methods used in establishing the doctrine, banishment of the loser, burning of books etc, persecution of followers, war even against the Arian tribes, and the picture becomes clearer.

 

[Marymog]

Correct.
Truth comes from God.


Mary, I know that this isn't going to make much sense to you, but I don't look to men or popular vote or history to determine Truth. All of your arguments here have a foundation in sand for me. I go to the source of Truth (God) and ask Him. That's my way. I do honestly respect that you believe otherwise care about these other things-- I 100% respect that's you and your faith. But you're not going to convince me to share it.

Huh? You don’t look to men to determine Truth?

You go to God and ask Him and he answers you personally? God speaks to you, gives YOU the Truth and does not give it to any other man?


What is the Christian world going to do when you die? We will loose our only source of Truth.

Thank you for your time.

Mary

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Huh? You don’t look to men to determine Truth?

Correct.

You go to God and ask Him and he answers you personally? God speaks to you, gives YOU the Truth and does not give it to any other man?

What is the Christian world going to do when you die? We will loose our only source of Truth.

God answers all who come to Him. Nothing special about me.

 

[Marymog]

Do you believe an infant must be baptized to forgive Adam's sin?

Not all Christians believe that.

Lol...I never said that so why would I believe it.

I agree, not all Christians believe that and agree with Scripture. This has become painfully true since the Reformation when certain Christians started teaching different doctrines that were opposite of 2,000 years of Christian doctrine. We now have 3-5 different “truths” about baptism or communion or homosexual marriage or abortion etc. etc. Many ears have been tickled since the Reformation

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Correct.

God answers all who come to Him. Nothing special about me.

Hi Jane,

God answered the Apostolic the ECF’s also. Their answer from God was different than yours.

Why should I believe you over them?

Curious Mary

 

[Enoch111]

Bible study.....love it.
Bible Study Mary

Mary, you neglected your assignment.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Lol...I never said that so why would I believe it.

???

Yes, we are imputed with Adams sin. The “concept of original sin” is in Scripture

Scripture says that baptism washes away sin and saves. Infants have original sin

I agree, not all Christians believe that and agree with Scripture. This has become painfully true since the Reformation when certain Christians started teaching different doctrines that were opposite of 2,000 years of Christian doctrine. We now have 3-5 different “truths” about baptism or communion or homosexual marriage or abortion etc. etc. Many ears have been tickled since the Reformation

This random Protestant bashing you do is very destructive to having a civil dialogue.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Hi Jane,

God answered the Apostolic the ECF’s also. Their answer from God was different than yours.

Why should I believe you over them?

Curious Mary

Neither.
You should ask God and listen to what He says.

 

[Marymog]

Mary, you neglected your assignment.

Dear Enoch,

My assignment was to read Romans 4 and 5 and how it relates to our discussion. That I accomplished and more by putting all of Scripture in context instead of your narrow reading of Scripture.

Translation: I used more of scripture than you suggested to make my point. By doing this (putting scripture in context) I weakend your theory.

You failed to articulate a educated response to my post. Instead you write 5 words that mean nothing.

Would you care to try again?

Curious Mary

 

[Enoch111]

God told Adam and Eve if they eat the fruit they would die (Genesis 2:16-17) Did they die when they ate the fruit? No, they didn’t.

Since God said "SURELY die" then that is exactly what happened. Their spirits died, and they were banished from Eden.

Scripture makes it clear they brought sin into the world.

Yes. and you took it a step further, which even the RCC dared not do. You imputed Adam's sin to the human race, which means that Adam's guilt was imputed to all human beings. WHICH IS TOTALLY FALSE.

We are, as scripture says, imputed or ascribed to sin thru one man (Adam) and, as scripture says, ALL have sinned.

This is where your confusion begins. You think that imputed, ascribed, impacted all mean the same thing. They do not. Because of Adam's disobedience, sin and death became the CURSE of the human race. Therefore the Bible says that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

Are you suggesting that infants are not part of “all”?

If all infants can die sooner or later, then all infants carry the *virus* of sin within their souls. Every human being has a sin nature. But as far as a just and merciful God is concerned, since infants and young children cannot possibly comprehend or respond to the Gospel, the blood of Christ which was shed for them also ensures their salvation. They do not need to be baptized for the simple reason that the blood of Christ has infinite value, whereas water cannot wash away any sins.

 

[Marymog]

???

This random Protestant bashing you do is very destructive to having a civil dialogue.

Soooo if I point out the FACT that since the reformation Christianity now has 3-5 different doctrines on one truth from scripture that means I am “Protestant bashing”? If there are 3-5 different truths isn’t someone haveing their ears tickled since there can be only one Truth?

Hmmmm.....Are we no longer allowed to state facts to each other because if we do it is not a civil dialogue?

Curious Mary

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Soooo if I point out the FACT that since the reformation Christianity now has 3-5 different doctrines on one truth from scripture that means I am “Protestant bashing”? If there are 3-5 different truths isn’t someone haveing their ears tickled since there can be only one Truth?

Hmmmm.....Are we no longer allowed to state facts to each other because if we do it is not a civil dialogue?

Curious Mary

If* I were to bring up the Catholic Priest scandal randomly, that is bring up a fact. But to randomly bring it up just because I don't like Catholics would be Catholic bashing. You would also instantly dismiss me and anything I say because I'm just a hateful anti-Catholic.

Just like you bring up all these random points is Protestant bashing and paints you as just a hateful person that people should dismiss.


(*Obviously this is not my real feelings).

 

[Marymog]

Since God said "SURELY die" then that is exactly what happened. Their spirits died, and they were banished from Eden.

Yes. and you took it a step further, which even the RCC dared not do. You imputed Adam's sin to the human race, which means that Adam's guilt was imputed to all human beings. WHICH IS TOTALLY FALSE.

This is where your confusion begins. You think that imputed, ascribed, impacted all mean the same thing. They do not. Because of Adam's disobedience, sin and death became the CURSE of the human race. Therefore the Bible says that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

If all infants can die sooner or later, then all infants carry the *virus* of sin within their souls. Every human being has a sin nature. But as far as a just and merciful God is concerned, since infants and young children cannot possibly comprehend or respond to the Gospel, the blood of Christ which was shed for them also ensures their salvation. They do not need to be baptized for the simple reason that the blood of Christ has infinite value, whereas water cannot wash away any sins.

Thank you Enoch.

I didn’t take it a step further and you clearly don’t know what the CC teaches and Scripture says that entire families (infants make up families)were baptized and your own Christian brothers from 2,000 years ago said they baptized babies (however you believe men’s doctrines from 500 years ago)and scripture says all have sinned and an infant is clearly part of ALL of us and scripture CLEARLY says that baptism, which is done with water, washes away sin and you say it doesn’t.....which means you are Scripturally and historically wrong on everything you believe on this matter.

Who is your teacher?

Curious Mary

 

[farouk]

Soooo if I point out the FACT that since the reformation Christianity now has 3-5 different doctrines on one truth from scripture that means I am “Protestant bashing”? If there are 3-5 different truths isn’t someone haveing their ears tickled since there can be only one Truth?

Hmmmm.....Are we no longer allowed to state facts to each other because if we do it is not a civil dialogue?

Curious Mary

One truth, yes, but the fact that a hierarchy imposes a particular viewpoint does not make for clear exegesis of what the text of Scripture actually says...

 

[farouk]

Someone produced a leaflet entitled: 'What the Bible says about infant baptism'.

The leaflet was entirely blank.

 

[CoreIssue]

Someone produced a leaflet entitled: 'What the Bible says about infant baptism'.

The leaflet was entirely blank.

That makes it accurate.