Proof of the Trinity. No takers?

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justbyfaith

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I suppose that this could be asked in another thread, but I wanted to ask this here: What is the definition of "the body of sin" and/or "the body of the sins of the flesh"? I suggest that this means the encapsulation of that which is sinful within us and/or within our flesh. Can anyone think of a different definition?

Because it has a bearing on our understanding of 1 John 1:8 if we apply these definitions to Romans 6:6 and Colossians 2:11.

My understanding of 1 John 1:8 is affected by Job 9:21, Isaiah 42:19, and John 9:41 according to the biblical hermeneutic of 1 Corinthians 2:13 (kjv).
 

justbyfaith

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You are acting towards me like you think you are the King of Spain.

The answer is, both.

The Father is not the Son; but the Son is the Father.

re #122.
 
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bbyrd009

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are they the same person? yes or no?.
do they have souls, yes or no, do we have Scripture that plainly tells us that there are no people in God, yes or no?
are you functioning under a trinitarian illusion that you cannot Quote, yes or no?

i mean you might be able to shoehorn a personality onto God somehow, if you read bad enough, but the Holy Spirit?
this is why you have to bail from every conversation that you are not perceived to be winning, ok, no offense
 

justbyfaith

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:rolleyes: pls, the Son Himself tells you better than that!
Point out the verses where the Son says that.

I can think of a few that you might bring up: "My Father is greater than I". "No one knows the day or hour; not the angels of God, neither the Son, but only the Father."

My answer to this is that in the hypostatic union Jesus is distinctly the Son of God: but that Jesus' Spirit is the Father...John 14:7-11, John 4:23-24. So then, since we are our spirit, we have a soul, and we dwell in a body as human beings, Jesus is His Spirit...therefore Jesus is the Father. but in His human nature He is finite, and in that is where those verses apply: for He emptied Himself of His Omnipresence and His Omniscience when He became the Son. He had to do this in order to take on an added nature of humanity.
 

bbyrd009

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Point out the verses where the Son says that.

I can think of a few that you might bring up: "My Father is greater than I". "No one knows the day or hour; not the angels of God, neither the Son, but only the Father."

My answer to this is that in the hypostatic union Jesus is distinctly the Son of God: but that Jesus' Spirit is the Father...John 14:7-11, John 4:23-24. So then, since we are our spirit, we have a soul, and we dwell in a body as human beings, Jesus is His Spirit...therefore Jesus is the Father. but in His human nature He is finite, and in that is where those verses apply: for He emptied Himself of His Omnipresence and His Omniscience when He became the Son. He had to do this in order to take on an added nature of humanity.
well, sounds logical to me :)
 

farouk

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Point out the verses where the Son says that.

I can think of a few that you might bring up: "My Father is greater than I". "No one knows the day or hour; not the angels of God, neither the Son, but only the Father."

My answer to this is that in the hypostatic union Jesus is distinctly the Son of God: but that Jesus' Spirit is the Father...John 14:7-11, John 4:23-24. So then, since we are our spirit, we have a soul, and we dwell in a body as human beings, Jesus is His Spirit...therefore Jesus is the Father. but in His human nature He is finite, and in that is where those verses apply: for He emptied Himself of His Omnipresence and His Omniscience when He became the Son. He had to do this in order to take on an added nature of humanity.
I think that it's clear that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are seen as distinct Persons in Matthew 28, John's Gospel chapters 13 thru 17, John's First Epistle. While completely united in Deity and working, the Persons in Scripture remain distinct.
 

bbyrd009

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ah yes, the usual "circuit" right? "Galileans" are associated with term, fwiw
not necessarily disagreeing with your premise iow @farouk
My answer to this is that in the hypostatic union
can you reply absent the doctrine though? ty

"this is that" hmm, see, when that phrase is used in that context...brb
 

bbyrd009

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I usually don't reply with doctrine being absent. See 2 Timothy 1:13, Titus 1:9.
prob there is you cannot Quote "hypostatic union," see, so it does not qualify as one of the doctrines they were referring to, but the doctrine is derived from an interpretation of Scripture, not disagreeing there, but what i'm asking is if you would ref the Scripture and not the doctrine, that i do not see in Scripture.
My answer to this is that in the hypostatic union Jesus is distinctly the Son of God
not meaning to be obtuse, understand, but you put "distinctly" in there whereas some others do not, etc
be perfect as I am perfect
be one as we are one

etc
 

justbyfaith

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but the doctrine is derived from an interpretation of Scripture,
If you consider it to be merely an interpretation of scripture and not the actual truth, then I can only suggest that you study further as to the reality of this doctrine (the hypostatic union). I am not going to argue it here.

Because there is the possibility that to sow the scriptural authority for this doctrine here would be to sow among thorns; in other words, among those who are not open to the truth of what I might be saying and who would react as a thorn might if rubbed up against...attempting to damage the seed that I am attempting to sow.

Because the understanding is gotten through thinking and asking the Holy Spirit to show you the reality of what is said. If you are not open to the truth you might come up with an alternate interpretation that is not His will for you to believe and understand. But if you have an attitude of seeking Him, I believe that He will show you the reality of this doctrine through your personal reading of His word; and in His timing.
 

farouk

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If you consider it to be merely an interpretation of scripture and not the actual truth, then I can only suggest that you study further as to the reality of this doctrine (the hypostatic union). I am not going to argue it here.

Because there is the possibility that to sow the scriptural authority for this doctrine here would be to sow among thorns; in other words, among those who are not open to the truth of what I might be saying and who would react as a thorn might if rubbed up against...attempting to damage the seed that I am attempting to sow.

Because the understanding is gotten through thinking and asking the Holy Spirit to show you the reality of what is said. If you are not open to the truth you might come up with an alternate interpretation that is not His will for you to believe and understand. But if you have an attitude of seeking Him, I believe that He will show you the reality of this doctrine through your personal reading of His word; and in His timing.
The hypostatic union is a great doctrine and usually refers to the union of the Divine and human natures in the Lord Jesus.

The distinction between Father, Son and Holy Spirit is usually referred to as the Divine Personalities.
 

bbyrd009

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If you consider it to be merely an interpretation of scripture and not the actual truth, then I can only suggest that you study further as to the reality of this doctrine (the hypostatic union). I am not going to argue it here.
wadr i am pretty sure you are though,
Because there is the possibility that to sow the scriptural authority for this doctrine here would be to sow among thorns; in other words, among those who are not open to the truth of what I might be saying and who would react as a thorn might if rubbed up against...attempting to damage the seed that I am attempting to sow.

Because the understanding is gotten through thinking and asking the Holy Spirit to show you the reality of what is said. If you are not open to the truth you might come up with an alternate interpretation that is not His will for you to believe and understand. But if you have an attitude of seeking Him, I believe that He will show you the reality of this doctrine through your personal reading of His word; and in His timing.
ah, but i have already rejected the doctrine on that same basis, and after all i am only asking for Scripture to back up your position there, rather than a doctrine that all believers do not agree on, ok. Iow i'm not really even interested in denying the doctrine per se, and your argument can be developed from Scripture easily enough anyway imo,
My answer to this is that in the hypostatic union
see, this is a reply to Scripture, if i may characterize this as "you, answering Scripture with a doctrine" basically.

(I'm assuming you know about the little invisible button there beside "justbyfaith said:" there in the quote banner)
 
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justbyfaith

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So, I have asked you elsewhere and will ask you here also, what scripture you have in mind that you think contradicts the understanding of the hypostatic union (which I believe is scriptural). Because if it is not scriptural, I want to know it (though I do not believe that it isn't); and also I believe that there is an answer for any objections that you may have. I am not afraid of the challenge, so bring to the forefront the scriptures that you are thinking of.
 

Malsi Si Live

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I think we run the risk of following a false Christ if after we hear the truth we reject it. If we do not have truth receptors, we probably are not saved.

That's just not true.

Everybody likes to believe they have the truth. If we say we have all the truth we deceive ourselves. Nobody and no church has all the truth. There are damnable and un-damnable heresies, and very few damnable ones. The Trinity doctrine is incomprehensible, inexplicable, and incoherent making the Trinity doctrine unnecessary for salvation. I've never accepted it and never will accept it.
 
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justbyfaith

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Everybody likes to believe they have the truth. If we say we have all the truth we deceive ourselves. Nobody and no church has all the truth.
If you own a Bible, then you have all the truth. Whether you understand it; and whether that truth has made it into your heart, may be a different story.
 

Malsi Si Live

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If you own a Bible, then you have all the truth. Whether you understand it; and whether that truth has made it into your heart, may be a different story.
Why is it that everybody who has a bible often arrive at a different 'truth'? Possessing a bible doesn't mean we have the truth, we have to discover it by putting some effort into it. Simple truths are what saves us. Christ life, death, and resurrection are simple truths we believe enables us to have eternal life. Things like 'Trinity' are meaningless to eternal life.
 
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