Proof of the Trinity. No takers?

[jaybird]

Deuteronomy 6:4
“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

can anyone explain why this proclamation was so important to the Jews?

 

[farouk]

No they do not show any such thing. Just as you are not your father, neither is your father you, Jesus is the "only begotten" (uniquely begotten) Son of God, as well as God the Word.

Personality and Deity are both attributed gloriously to the Son, but they are indeed distinct.

 

[farouk]

That is simply an argument, that is refuted by 1 Peter 3:20-21. My understanding is that Jesus applies the blood when we go under the water in His name (confessing Him before men). Going forward in church or in a Crusade is too anonymous impaho, unless you just begin to serve the Lord from there on in and end up confessing Him that way by publicly proclaiming His message.

We are baptised because we have faith and a good conscience, not in order to become believers.

 

[brakelite]

In what way is the Godhead one in unity but not in substance?

If the Son was of one substance with the other members of the eternal Godhead, how did He die?

 

[justbyfaith]

@Jane_Doe22,

I would say to you that the substance being spoken of is the Spirit of God. This substance is His singular Person.

However, we know from John 4:23-24 that the Father is that Spirit. But that this Person took on the added nature of humanity and that the Person formed was a distinct individual although the same Person. The same Spirit and therefore the same substance.

 

[justbyfaith]

We are baptised because we have faith and a good conscience, not in order to become believers.

Yes I agree that it must be a believer's baptism. However, there is an operation of God that takes place within baptism that will come into effect with faith.

 

[farouk]

Yes I agree that it must be a believer's baptism. However, there is an operation of God that takes place within baptism that will come into effect with faith.

No, we are already cleansed of our sins though faith by the blood of Christ by the eternal Spirit, before we are ever baptised (Hebrews 9.14).

 

[justbyfaith]

No, we are already cleansed of our sins though faith by the blood of Christ by the eternal Spirit, before we are ever baptised (Hebrews 9.14).

I am not going to argue with you. You have to see it in your own reading/devotional time.

 

[farouk]

I am not going to argue with you. You have to see it in your own reading/devotional time.

I think on this issue we are very far apart indeed.

 

[Taken]

There is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5, 1 Corinthians 8:6, Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21).

I count three from your perspective. Now I like the equation 1 x 1 x 1 = 1. But 1 + 1 +1 = 1 simply does not fly with me.

Really though, I think it is more like the equation 1 = 1 = 1.

Or, a = 1, b = 1, c = 1, therefore a = b = c = 1.

IMO ~ It's a Conundrum when men try to explain or define God in a mathematical equation.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Deuteronomy 6:4
“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

can anyone explain why this proclamation was so important to the Jews?

Because the proclamation was given their Forefathers; men who experienced a close Personal relationship with Their LORD Their God?

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Jane_Doe22]

@Jane_Doe22,

I would say to you that the substance being spoken of is the Spirit of God. This substance is His singular Person.

That doesn't make any sense in regard to what the Bible says, or what the Athanasian Creed says.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

A big picture aside here:
These type of discussions are certainly useful in understanding the deeper levels of what each of us believe, why we believe it, and the limitations of each of our knowledge/understanding. We each have different limitations and different understandings. But in the big picture, it is important to always remember that it is not our knowledge/understanding that saves us, but our faith in Christ.

 

[jaybird]

Because the proclamation was given their Forefathers; men who experienced a close Personal relationship with Their LORD Their God?

Jesus said the 2 greatest commandts we're based on this foundation but I think few today think on what the Shema means

 

[Taken]

In order for the Trinity to be a reality, God would have to be One Person and yet also Three. Because we have a Personal God and therefore our one God is a Person. God is a Spirit (John 4:24). And there is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4).

To me it is very simple; but I don't think you are ready for the truth so I will refrain right now from continuing; except to say that the hypostatic union is a key doctrine for you to understand.

Explaining God is never simple, which is to say, Explaining requires one trying to Verbalized the Fullness of God...

Which is not the Same as ones inner Understanding that requires No Verbal exchange with an other.

Using the Term "Trinity", is Basicilly a METHOD of trying to Explain God, by using the terms "PERSONS".

Tri- meaning THREE
Unity - meaning ONE

Thus simply Tri+unity = Trinity, meaning THREE (which some CALL "persons") being ONE (which some CALL "persons").

A man can SAY, ya, ya, sure, I believe in the "TRINITY". THREE = ONE in UNITY....

But WHAT IF, that man does not AGREE, with the "PERSON" language that goes along with the "infamous" rendering of the term "TRINITY"?

And WHAT IF, that man does not AGREE, with the illustration of "TRINITY", which includes the "WORDS"....?
("The Father is NOT the Son.
The Father is NOT the Holy Spirit.
The Father is God.
The Son is NOT the Father.
The Son is NOT the Holy Spirit.
The Son is God.
The Holy Spirit is NOT the Father.
The Holy Spirit is NOT the Son.
The Holy Spirit is God.")

I have no problem saying I believe Thee God is ONE GOD, who reveals to known to us, specific ASPECTS OF Himself.

I have no problem saying I believe Thee ONE GOD, created and made mankind IN HIS IMAGE and LIKENESS.

And NEVER would I describe myself, as THREE PERSONS in ONE.....
OR that this person is not that person and so forth.

Just sayin.....

Inasmuch as I know MY nerves allow FEELING, they ARE not the same FEELINGS as my emotions allow.

Inasmuch as I know MY mind has thoughts, they are not always inline with my natural spirit's thoughts.

Inasmuch as I know MY FORM (body) IS
Terrestrial Flesh and Bone and Blood.
I know Celestrial Bodies DO NOT
Have Terrestrial Flesh, Bones or Blood.

Inasmuch as I know terrestrial BLOOD, is the Life of the terrestrial BODY.
I know BLOOD is NOT the Life of a Celestrial Body.

IN SHORT, mankind fell away from BEING in Gods IMAGE and LIKENESS....

And the WHOLE BIG PICTURE, is FOR mankind individually Freely Decide and Choose to BECOME MADE in Gods IMAGE and LIKENESS,
WHOLLY (BODY, SOUL and SPIRIT)
as He intended, and OCCUPY the Earth, as He intended, which shall BECOME MADE anew....
OR NOT.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Jane_Doe22]

("The Father is NOT the Son.
The Father is NOT the Holy Spirit.
The Father is God.
The Son is NOT the Father.
The Son is NOT the Holy Spirit.
The Son is God.
The Holy Spirit is NOT the Father.
The Holy Spirit is NOT the Son.
The Holy Spirit is God.")

I likewise have no problem with that. But the "Trinity" doctrine involves much more than that: specifying how the three-are-one. Throughout the years I've met folks with a dozen other different ideas on how the three-are-one (such as the one you described) but they are not Trinitarians because they don't agree with the Athanasian Creed's interpretation one how three-are-one. I myself don't agree with the Athanasian's Creed in this regard, and also disagree with it's statement that having a incorrect knowledge of God somehow disqualifies a person from salvation. Salvation is not dependent on man's ability to pass a theology test.

Let us leave determining who gets salvation in God's hands, and us.

 

[Taken]

Jesus said the 2 greatest commandts we're based on this foundation but I think few today think on what the Shema means

Probably so. Since I doubt most know that the Shema is.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Dave L]

I likewise have no problem with that. But the "Trinity" doctrine involves much more than that: specifying how the three-are-one. Throughout the years I've met folks with a dozen other different ideas on how the three-are-one (such as the one you described) but they are not Trinitarians because they don't agree with the Athanasian Creed's interpretation one how three-are-one. I myself don't agree with the Athanasian's Creed in this regard, and also disagree with it's statement that having a incorrect knowledge of God somehow disqualifies a person from salvation. Salvation is not dependent on man's ability to pass a theology test.

Let us leave determining who gets salvation in God's hands, and us.

I think we run the risk of following a false Christ if after we hear the truth we reject it. If we do not have truth receptors, we probably are not saved.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I think we run the risk of following a false Christ if after we hear the truth we reject it. If we do not have truth receptors, we probably are not saved.

Truth is from God's words. Not men's.

 

[Dave L]

Truth is from God's words. Not men's.

Granted, but where do you get the idea scripture is man's word when quoted?