Can Jesus and Paul be reconciled on the LAW?

[Danube]

As far as salvation goes, it doesn't matter what your past sin is, the blood of Jesus takes away the most grievous of sins, including murder. If you had to first be good enough for Jesus to save you, then your own works is needed for Jesus to accept you. Do you agree, or not?

I must correct you there.

There IS a sin that is unforgivable.

1 John 5:16

The sinner on the cross beside Jesus however confessed with his lips and was saved, moments before his death.
Did you see that.....he was saved!
So my point still stands.... Paul is not a pre-requisite for salvation.

“He that is without sin among you, let him castthe first stone at her.” The people crowded around him were so touched by their own consciences that they departed. When Jesus found himself alone with the woman, he asked her who were her accusers. She replied, “No man,lord.” Jesus then said, “Neither do I condemn thee, GO AND SIN NO MORE.”

Does this require action (work) on her part or is she under grace? or both?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I must correct you there.

There IS a sin that is unforgivable.

1 John 5:16

The theif on the cross beside Jesus however confessed with his lips and was saved, moments before his death.

You are right, there is a sin that is unforgivable, but Paul didn't commit it. Or do you believe he did?

 

[Ezra]

Can you not hear him calling his flock?

"I AM the the truth, the light, the way"

Do you have ears to listen?

not only that he choose the foolish things of this world to confound the wise

 

[Danube]

Thank you Phoneman777
Respect

 

[Danube]

You are right, there is a sin that is unforgivable, but Paul didn't commit it. Or do you believe he did?

I don't know.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I must correct you there.

There IS a sin that is unforgivable.

1 John 5:16

The theif on the cross beside Jesus however confessed with his lips and was saved, moments before his death.
Did you see that.....he was saved!
So my point still stands.... Paul is not a pre-requisite for salvation.

“He that is without sin among you, let him castthe first stone at her.” The people crowded around him were so touched by their own consciences that they departed. When Jesus found himself alone with the woman, he asked her who were her accusers. She replied, “No man,lord.” Jesus then said, “Neither do I condemn thee, GO AND SIN NO MORE.”

Does this require action (work) on her part or is she under grace? or both?

What do you think being under grace means?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I don't know.

Call me dense, but I still don't know what you have against Paul.

 

[Danube]

What do you think being under grace means?

I don't know.
I might already be under grace but where I struggle to grasp this concept is ..was I directed to come to conscience and repent by my own free-will or was I guided by force/s outside of my comprehension or limited understanding?
I personally have all my life felt very strong pangs of guilt for my previous actions and I immediately sought Jesus, since that time I feel somewhat straightened out so to speak but I have always feared God even as a child I remember asking my mother when we were caught out in a fierce electrical storm once, God was angry (always makes me chuckle) so I thought and asked my mum if he was hehe.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I don't know.
I might already be under grace but where I struggle to grasp this concept is ..was I directed to come to conscience and repent by my own free-will or was I guided by force/s outside of my comprehension or limited understanding?
I personally have all my life felt very strong pangs of guilt for my previous actions and I immediately sought Jesus, since that time I feel somewhat straightened out so to speak but I have always feared God even as a child I remember asking my mother when we were caught out in a fierce electical storm that God was angry (lol) and asked my mum if he was hehe.

It is true that the Holy Spirit draws all men to repentance. But our free will comes into play as to whether to repent or not. You did it seems, and of your own free will. God loves you. He's not angry with you.

 

[Danube]

Call me dense, but I still don't know what you have against Paul.

I cannot ignore Jesus' words of warning regarding the Pharisees. Johns strange but timely warning of the false apostle, Sauls behaviour and alignment with worldly governments (polar opposite to Jesus).

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I cannot ignore Jesus' words of warning regarding the Pharisees.

Just because Paul used to be a Pharisee, and even a Zealot, doesn't mean that Jesus couldn't call him out of that. Why can't you accept that?

I used to be in a very legalistic denomination, and Jesus called me out of it, just like He did Paul.

 

[Danube]

Just because Paul used to be a Pharisee, and even a Zealot, doesn't mean that Jesus couldn't call him out of that. Why can't you accept that?

I used to be in a very legalistic denomination, and Jesus called me out of it, just like He did Paul.

Paul never met Jesus in the flesh and that sets him apart from the others and makes the warnings I have read more poignant.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Paul never met Jesus in the flesh and that sets him apart from the others and makes the warnings I have read more poignant.

What kind of warnings?

 

[Danube]

not only that he choose the foolish things of this world to confound the wise

I don't consider myself wise.

 

[mjrhealth]

Maybe it is because I don't like liars who preach contrary to Jesus.

His teaching is completely inline with Christ, salvation by Grace, Jesus preached to the lost sheep of Israel, the Jews, not to the gentiles as did most the disciples it was not till,

Act 10:10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
Act 10:11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
Act 10:12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
Act 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
Act 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
Act 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
Act 10:16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

did any one of them go to the gentiles. So you see you have much learning, rejecting the truth of Pauls gospel is not a good start sine it is Christ Grace not Pauls.

as it says if you reject teh one whom He sent than you reject Christ and teh father. B

Be carefull you dont become just like the pharisees you claim to despise, there are a few around here.

 

[Enoch111]

Right. It is what Jude called turning the grace of God into lasciviousness.

How does all that become *lasciviousness*?
Strong's Concordance
aselgeia: licentiousness, wantonness
Original Word: ἀσέλγεια, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: aselgeia
Phonetic Spelling: (as-elg'-i-a)
Definition: licentiousness, wantonness
Usage: (outrageous conduct, conduct shocking to public decency, a wanton violence), wantonness, lewdness.

 

[Danube]

What kind of warnings?

Ezekiel 13:9
Jeremiah 23:16
Luke 6:26
Matthew 24:24
Matthew 16:11-12
Matthew 7:15-20
Matthew 23:1-29
1 John 4:1-6
....
..
..

 

[Danube]

Paul (who wrote this....)

“As I was on my way and drew near to Damascus, about noon a great light from heaven suddenly shone around me. And I fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to me, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?’ And I answered, ‘Who are you, Lord?’ And he said to me, ‘I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting.’ Now those who were with me saw the light but did not understand the voice of the one who was speaking to me. And I said, ‘What shall I do, Lord?’ And the Lord said to me, ‘Rise, and go into Damascus, and there you will be told all that is appointed for you to do.’ And since I could not see because of the brightness of that light, I was led by the hand by those who were with me, and came into Damascus.

John: "Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world."

 

[mjrhealth]

Paul got away with murder didn't he?

Guess what so did you, is it you are saying that Gods grace is for you and not for Paul, we murder with our words no different to stabbing someone in the back.

You should read what He has to say, as He clearly understood where HE came from and what Gods grace is, and there are very few who understand that at all.

 

[Danube]

Guess what so did you, is it you are saying that Gods grace is for you and not for Paul, we murder with our words no different to stabbing someone in the back.

You should read what He has to say, as He clearly understood where HE came from and what Gods grace is, and there are very few who understand that at all.

Ok...theoretically..

Will I go to hell for confessing Jesus coming in the flesh, cleaving to the LAW of the Father, but reject Paul on the sincere grounds of trust?

What Commandement am I breaking by rejecting Paul?