Can Jesus and Paul be reconciled on the LAW?

[Danube]

The truth offends those who believe lies, we see it all the time. Running away isnt going to change the truth..

Paul said he lies...
Paulinists get offended when someone calls him out, strange because the truth does not fear scrutiny. I am not Pauls judge....God is.
I will always be wary of liars though.
You seem somewhat offended, lesser of 2 evils when you consider your judgement on me will only bring judgement on yourself.
But you knew that already.

 

[Ezra]

Who put those words in my mouth?

you did care to deny that you said paul was not saved?

 

[mjrhealth]

Paul said he lies...
Paulinists get offended when someone calls him out, strange because the truth does not fear scrutiny. I am not Pauls judge....God is.
I will always be wary of liars though.
You seem somewhat offended, lesser of 2 evils when you consider your judgement on me will only bring judgement on yourself.
But you knew that already.

You are reading everything in your flesh, He said all men are liars let God be true, that makes you a liar and nothing you say brings glory to God as His words do.

It is not Paul's Gospel of Grace it is Christs, He was the only one sent to the gentiles outside Israel, Peter was the only other one who preached the Gospel to the Jews as Jesus asked Him to feed His sheep who where the lost tribe of Israel. Now all who believe in Him are His sheep, As I said before, you deny the truth you deny Christ because Christ is the truth, and Paul,s gospel is true it is how men are saved, us gentiles that is.

Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

is that not how you are saved is it not the truth, it is from one of His letters, are you willing to deny the truth because you dont like Paul??

 

[Ezra]

"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

 

[ScottA]

Have I got this wrong as well, but Paul didnt say he saw Jesus come in the flesh?

Paul (who wrote this....)

“As I was on my way and drew near to Damascus, about noon a great light from heaven suddenly shone around me. And I fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to me, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?’ And I answered, ‘Who are you, Lord?’ And he said to me, ‘I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting.’ Now those who were with me saw the light but did not understand the voice of the one who was speaking to me. And I said, ‘What shall I do, Lord?’ And the Lord said to me, ‘Rise, and go into Damascus, and there you will be told all that is appointed for you to do.’ And since I could not see because of the brightness of that light, I was led by the hand by those who were with me, and came into Damascus.

John: "Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world."

Yes, you have it wrong.

John also said, "we shall see Him as He is." Which, having gone to the Father, and being God, "is spirit."

If we are His followers, we do not stop where the flesh stops (as many do to their own loss), but continue on in spirit, just as He did.

 

[Danube]

you did care to deny that you said paul was not saved?

Yes, you have it wrong.

John also said, "we shall see Him as He is." Which, having gone to the Father, and being God, "is spirit."

If we are His followers, we do not stop where the flesh stops (as many do to their own loss), but continue on in spirit, just as He did.

So I'm wrong because we interpret "as he is" as a spirit and NOT in the flesh?
John specifies using the word FLESH previously.... which makes Johns testimony seem contradictory.
Jesus rose after his crucifiction and was seen in the garden.... as a spirit or was he seen in the FLESH after the resurrection?
Paul did not see Jesus in the flesh though, Paul never ever met Jesus. Thank you John!
Saul aka Paul says he saw a bright light and (convieniently?) was blinded so did not see anything, he heard a voice speak to him. The alleged 2 companions "he said" ( because they obviously cannot speak for themselves oh no!) could not hear what the voice said.... that spaketh to Paul....sorry I meant Saul.
The most important part is you MUST believe the Pharassical liar though, otherwise you lose the grace, which is ok because you still have the salvation promised by Jesus, long before Saul Paul gave up killing Gods elect ....phew... that is a relief. Thank you Lord Jesus Christ!

 

[Danube]

"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

Correct.
Paul's grace now allows you to eat the Pig that has eaten your pearls so, chill bro! Pearls in yer spam.
Bon apetit

 

[Danube]

You are reading everything in your flesh, He said all men are liars let God be true, that makes you a liar and nothing you say brings glory to God as His words do.

It is not Paul's Gospel of Grace it is Christs, He was the only one sent to the gentiles outside Israel, Peter was the only other one who preached the Gospel to the Jews as Jesus asked Him to feed His sheep who where the lost tribe of Israel. Now all who believe in Him are His sheep, As I said before, you deny the truth you deny Christ because Christ is the truth, and Paul,s gospel is true it is how men are saved, us gentiles that is.

Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

is that not how you are saved is it not the truth, it is from one of His letters, are you willing to deny the truth because you dont like Paul??

You just put Paul in my way to reaching Jesus and the kingdom.

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.


Saul/Paul NEVER met Jesus in the flesh like the 12 apostles did and which is what John is refering to, or have I read this wrong also?

 

[mjrhealth]

You just put Paul in my way to reaching Jesus.
“But woe 15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!

no, really how can that be, is His gospel of grace not true... if His gospel of grace is not true than how is it possible you came to Christ, is there another way we know not of.... another gospel...

 

[Danube]

you did care to deny that you said paul was not saved?

"If the truth of God has been spread by my lie, then why am I judged a sinner."

"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

 

[ScottA]

So I'm wrong because we interpret "as he is" as a spirit and NOT in the flesh?
John specifies using the word FLESH previously.... which makes Johns testimony seem contradictory.
Jesus rose after his crucifiction and was seen in the garden.... as a spirit or was he seen in the FLESH after the resurrection?
Paul did not see Jesus in the flesh though, never ever met him.
He says he saw a bright light and (convieniently?) was blinded so did not see anything, he heard a voice speak to him. The alleged 2 companions "he said" ( because they obviously cannot speak for themselves oh no!) could not hear what the voice said.... that spaketh to Paul....
The most important part is you MUST believe the Pharassical liar though, otherwise you lose the grace, which is ok because you still have the salvation promised by Jesus long before Paul gave up killing Gods elect ....phew... that is a relief. Thank you Lord.

It is not interpretation, but clearly stated: "God is spirit."

John does address Christ coming in the flesh - but what does it say? He does not say everyone in the flesh, but "every spirit."

As for after His resurrection, you are assuming that the "like manner" eluded to by the angel of the Lord would be the same as His resurrection, and yet that was not His resurrection, but His ascension. And why would you assume such, when the scriptures say that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God?" So, then, the resurrection was proof of Christ's victory over death, but His ascension was proof of His being God and spirit. Which truth, according to the scriptures, makes void your assumption.

As for Paul not seeing Jesus in the flesh on the road to Damascus - what does that prove, but that He is God, for He came to him in the "like manner" of God.

As for Paul being a "Pharisaical liar"...do you mean to say that before Christ saved him, he was a sinner? And now, do you consider that God is not capable to save whomever He chooses - even Peter, even you? No, all have fallen short, none are righteous, no not one. But you just saying so, makes you guilty of prejudice.

Every part of your position is in error.

 

[Danube]

It is not interpretation, but clearly stated: "God is spirit."

John does address Christ coming in the flesh - but what does it say? He does not say everyone in the flesh, but "every spirit."

As for after His resurrection, you are assuming that the "like manner" eluded to by the angel of the Lord would be the same as His resurrection, and yet that was not His resurrection, but His ascension. And why would you assume such, when the scriptures say that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God?" So, then, the resurrection was proof of Christ's victory over death, but His ascension was proof of His being God and spirit. Which truth, according to the scriptures, makes void your assumption.

As for Paul not seeing Jesus in the flesh on the road to Damascus - what does that prove, but that He is God, for He came to him in the "like manner" of God.

As for Paul being a "Pharisaical liar"...do you mean to say that before Christ saved him, he was a sinner? And now, do you consider that God is not capable to save whomever He chooses - even Peter, even you? No, all have fallen short, none are righteous, no not one. But you just saying so, makes you guilty of prejudice.

Every part of your position is in error.

Firstly you said "God is spirit" John says "Jesus" in the flesh. The litmus test for knowing what kind of spirit is from God as opposed to an evil spirit ie "angel of light" aka satan (our accuser).


Secondly "every spirit" meaning every Israelite who is a vessel that carries the " holy spirit" which is an inheritance that not everyone has. Because there are unclean and evil spirits also.

Thirdly "flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God"

Correct.

Fourthly, I must point out to you that Jesus was not in the kingdom when he was seen after the ressurection "in the flesh" and Saul was not present, hence John secures the 12 apostles by this testimony (in the flesh). Thank you John!

Other points:

Paul refered to his lie (being a liar) AFTER his "angel of light" experience ...he is Paul now, he dropped Saul by this point and is busy removing the LAW and replacing it with a spirit religion based on grace (denying the inheritence of any who carry the Holy Spirit and seek the kingdom).

Prejudice?

Eternity is a very very long time to be in a place you don't want to go to, nor can you escape from.

 

[ScottA]

Firstly you said "God is spirit" John says "Jesus" in the flesh.
Secondly "every spirit" meaning every Israelite who is a vessel that carries the "spirit" which is an inheritance that not everyone has.
Thirdly "flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God" means those who doxnot have the inheritance refered to previous.
Fourthly I must point out to you that Jesus was not in the kingdom when he was seen after the ressurection "in the flesh".

Other points:

Paul refered to his lie (being a liar) after his "angel of light" experience ...he is Paul now, he dropped Saul by this point.
Prejudice? Eternity is a very long time to be in a place you don't want to go. The warnings in the bible will either be heard, or, fall on deaf ears.

1. God is [indeed] spirit. Jesus is God. John's testimony of Christ coming in the flesh, simply confirms what is written of Messiah. But what is Messiah if not God, whom is spirit? But worse, you make Jesus a liar, for He said, "I go to the Father" (whom is spirit). Your point is void.
2. No, "every spirit" are the words by John to explain "every spirit", just as he said. Which there would have been no reason to explain if he were just talking about "every Israelite"...which he did not say. Your point is void.
3. As for the flesh inheriting the kingdom of God...you are simply wrong. Jesus said, "the flesh profits nothing", and the scriptures say that the flesh "returns to the earth" and the "earth is destroyed with fervent heat", and it is only the spirit which "returns to God who gave it." Your knowledge is lacking and your point void.
4. As for Jesus being in the kingdom...again, you knowledge is lacking. Jesus is not in the kingdom, the kingdom is in Him. Your point is void.
5. Indeed. You should not be giving false and prejudice witness of Paul against the scriptures, even against the witness of Peter.

 

[mjrhealth]

Fourthly, I must point out to you that Jesus was not in the kingdom when he was seen after the ressurection "in the flesh" and Saul was not present, hence John secures the 12 apostles by this testimony (in the flesh). Thank you John!

Luk 24:33 And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,
Luk 24:34 Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.
Luk 24:36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Luk 24:37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
Luk 24:38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
Luk 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Luk 24:40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

I guess all the disciples have a problem,,,

Mar 16:9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
Mar 16:10 And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept.
Mar 16:11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.
Mar 16:12 After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.
Mar 16:13 And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them.
Mar 16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.


Yes we should watch out for that unbelief shouldnt we

 

[Danube]

1. God is [indeed] spirit. Jesus is God. John's testimony of Christ coming in the flesh, simply confirms what is written of Messiah. But what is Messiah if not God, whom is spirit? But worse, you make Jesus a liar, for He said, "I go to the Father" (whom is spirit). Your point is void.
2. No, "every spirit" are the words by John to explain "every spirit", just as he said. Which there would have been no reason to explain if he were just talking about "every Israelite"...which he did not say. Your point is void.
3. As for the flesh inheriting the kingdom of God...you are simply wrong. Jesus said, "the flesh profits nothing", and the scriptures say that the flesh "returns to the earth" and the "earth is destroyed with fervent heat", and it is only the spirit which "returns to God who gave it." Your knowledge is lacking and your point void.
4. As for Jesus being in the kingdom...again, you knowledge is lacking. Jesus is not in the kingdom, the kingdom is in Him. Your point is void.
5. Indeed. You should not be giving false and prejudice witness of Paul against the scriptures, even against the witness of Peter.

1. Jesus is God? Yet Jesus refers to his Father. His Fathers Commandments & His Fathers Kingdom! And outside the Temple as a son of God (Like every prophet is! Adam was a son of God also..)
Why would Jesus cry out to his Father on the cross if he was God?
2. You know not, every Israelite is a holy temple carrying his spirit and not everyone is a vessel for his spirit. So my point is not void at all.
3. Again, you cannot inherit that which was not given or passed onto you. Those with his spirit will get a new body. Those who never had the spirit only have their body...the truth of your spirit is either there in you or not.
4. Jesus has the keys to his fathers kingdom, So does every man who has the same spirit (is in him) and confesses him LORD with his lips and repents of his/her sin.
5. Paul's influence on Peter is recorded by Jesus rebuking Peter and John relates the passage about Peter being taken away to where he doesnt want to go.

 

[Danube]

Luk 24:33 And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,
Luk 24:34 Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.
Luk 24:36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Luk 24:37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
Luk 24:38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
Luk 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Luk 24:40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

I guess all the disciples have a problem,,,

Mar 16:9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
Mar 16:10 And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept.
Mar 16:11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.
Mar 16:12 After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.
Mar 16:13 And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them.
Mar 16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.


Yes we should watch out for that unbelief shouldnt we

So Jesus WAS seen after his crucifixion in the flesh...or were they being blinded by the same light that blinded Paul?

 

[mjrhealth]

So Jesus WAS seen after his crucifixion in the flesh...or were they being blinded by the same light that blinded Paul?

And do you have a problem with the way Jesus shows Himself to men, or is it you hate Paul so much you cannot possibly think Christ can save and use him?? or is it only you that deserves salvation...

 

[farouk]

God chooses the despised, so no flesh will glory in his presence

Essential principle to remember...

 

[farouk]

Our self glorification doesn’t enter in. If false then there’s no need for his cross....

Well, exactly...

 

[Waiting on him]

Well, exactly...

This is the same thing the judaizers were doing in the first century.