The Pope Said It's Better to Be An Atheist

[GodsGrace]

At the first general audience of 2019, Pope Francis said this:

POPE FRANCIS
"How many times do we see the scandal of those people who go to church, and are there all day or go every day, and then they live hating others or talking badly about people. This is a scandal. It is better not to go to Church if you live like that, like an atheist. But if you go to Church, live like a child, like a sibling, and give a true testimony, not a false testimony."

I see two ideas coming out of the above...at least for me:

1. Persons that go to church every day should KNOW that they are not to hate others. If they don't, it means the Catholic church is not doing the proper teaching.

2. How could it be better not to go to church? How could it be better to live like an atheist?


What do the catholics on this forum think of what he said?

 

[Deborah_]

I'm not a Catholic, but I know that God has expressed a similar statement: "'Oh, that one of you would shut the Temple doors, so that you would not light useless fires on My altar! I am not pleased with you,' says the LORD Almighty, 'and I will accept no offering from your hands.'" (Malachi 1:10)
In other words, better not to worship God at all than to worship Him deceitfully or hypocritically!

I'd also like to make the point that knowing something and doing it are two completely different things. It may not be evidence of a failure of Catholic teaching but evidence of some individuals e.g. not having the Holy Spirit in them (I John 2:9).

 

[GodsGrace]

I'm not a Catholic, but I know that God has expressed a similar statement: "'Oh, that one of you would shut the Temple doors, so that you would not light useless fires on My altar! I am not pleased with you,' says the LORD Almighty, 'and I will accept no offering from your hands.'" (Malachi 1:10)
In other words, better not to worship God at all than to worship Him deceitfully or hypocritically!

I'd also like to make the point that knowing something and doing it are two completely different things. It may not be evidence of a failure of Catholic teaching but evidence of some individuals e.g. not having the Holy Spirit in them (I John 2:9).

Yes. I'd have to agree with your second paragraph.
Perhaps BAC can instinctively do what is right because of their love for our Lord.

Good point.

 

[Windmillcharge]

At the first general audience of 2019, Pope Francis said this:

POPE FRANCIS
"How many times do we see the scandal of those people who go to church, and are there all day or go every day, and then they live hating others or talking badly about people. This is a scandal. It is better not to go to Church if you live like that, like an atheist. But if you go to Church, live like a child, like a sibling, and give a true testimony, not a false testimony."

I see two ideas coming out of the above...at least for me:

1. Persons that go to church every day should KNOW that they are not to hate others. If they don't, it means the Catholic church is not doing the proper teaching.

2. How could it be better not to go to church? How could it be better to live like an atheist?


What do the catholics on this forum think of what he said?

If one is not obeying Jersus's command to love others is one a Christian?

If one is not a Christian what difference is there between a church attender and an atheist?

 

[Enoch111]

What do the catholics on this forum think of what he said?

More nonsense from this Pretender.

Both Catholics and non-Catholics should ignore Pope Francis and his words. He makes these statements to deflect attention from his gross sins of protecting his clergy from the consequences of their sins.

 

[GodsGrace]

More nonsense from this Pretender.

Both Catholics and non-Catholics should ignore Pope Francis and his words. He makes these statements to deflect attention from his gross sins of protecting his clergy from the consequences of their sins.

Yes, but it's difficult for me to ignore his statements.
All my friends are catholic these days....and traditional ones at that !
Got a visit from a friend this morning....she was here for two hours on this & some other things about being saved.

 

[Marymog]

At the first general audience of 2019, Pope Francis said this:

POPE FRANCIS
"How many times do we see the scandal of those people who go to church, and are there all day or go every day, and then they live hating others or talking badly about people. This is a scandal. It is better not to go to Church if you live like that, like an atheist. But if you go to Church, live like a child, like a sibling, and give a true testimony, not a false testimony."

I see two ideas coming out of the above...at least for me:

1. Persons that go to church every day should KNOW that they are not to hate others. If they don't, it means the Catholic church is not doing the proper teaching.

2. How could it be better not to go to church? How could it be better to live like an atheist?


What do the catholics on this forum think of what he said?

It appears to me he is calling those people hypocrites. When they "live hating others" or 'talk badly about people' it is not Christ like. If you go to church but are not like Christ then you are, in effect, a hypocrite. If you are not living what Christ taught you are living a "false testimony" which means you are like an atheist.

That's my best guess. Maybe the Vatican will clarify his remarks in the future?

Best guess Mary

 

[amadeus]

If one is not obeying Jersus's command to love others is one a Christian?

If one is not a Christian what difference is there between a church attender and an atheist?

What is the difference between one who is "lukewarm" and one who is "cold"?

"I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." Rev 3:15-16

The cold person is not a hypocrite. He is simply dead to God. He has never known God, but still has hope of seeing the Light while he still has time.
The lukewarm person has already seen the Light and encountered Life. He either has not grown at all or he slipped away from his first love into delusion.

An ignorant person recognizing his ignorance may be interested in receiving an education, but a deluded person who believes he is right, when he is most definitely wrong, likely won't be seriously looking for improvement or correction.

Which position is the most difficult one? In the end, if they remained unchanged, they both are dead, but it seems that the ignorant one, the "cold" one is more likely to want to approach the Light before his end.

 

[GodsGrace]

It appears to me he is calling those people hypocrites. When they "live hating others" or 'talk badly about people' it is not Christ like. If you go to church but are not like Christ then you are, in effect, a hypocrite. If you are not living what Christ taught you are living a "false testimony" which means you are like an atheist.

That's my best guess. Maybe the Vatican will clarify his remarks in the future?

Best guess Mary

They always seem to have to clarify his remarks.
I understood what you stated.
He's saying that it's a bad witness to go to church all the time and call yourself a Christian and then gossip and so forth --- which some that I know do.

What about teaching? I believe there's more teaching going on in the states.
Here it's practically nill. I have spoken about this to a couple of priests I know but they don't like the idea of teaching during Mass (Fr. Pacwah does it) and people will not go to bible study.

I'm glad you understood it as I did. A friend called and told me the Pope said that's it's better to be an atheist than a sinning Catholic. Like my title.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[BreadOfLife]

More nonsense from this Pretender.

Both Catholics and non-Catholics should ignore Pope Francis and his words. He makes these statements to deflect attention from his gross sins of protecting his clergy from the consequences of their sins.

Spoken like a person who has NEVER opened a Bible . . .

Just as there are varying degrees of joy in Heaven – there are varying degrees of suffering in HELL – and the following verses attest to this (Prov. 24:12, Jer. 17:10, Ezek. 18:20, Rom. 2:5–16, 1 Cor. 3:8, 11-15, 2 Cor. 5:10, Col. 3:23–25, 1 Pet. 1:17, Rev. 20:12).

What Pope Francis said is absolutely TRUE.
To those who have been given much – MUCH will be expected of them (Luke 12:48) – then they will be judged harsher than those who didn’t believe.

God hates a hypocrite much more than an ignorant person . . .

 

[Enoch111]

POPE FRANCIS
"How many times do we see the scandal of those people who go to church, and are there all day or go every day, and then they live hating others or talking badly about people. This is a scandal.

The real scandal -- for those who have been following the shenanigans of the pope and his clergy -- is that he has swept the real scandal UNDER THE RUG: "In fact, critics observe, Francis himself stands accused of shielding predators and snubbing sex abuse victims and their families during his time as archbishop in his native Argentina."
Pope to Predator Priests: Turn Yourself In

He has failed to honestly and sincerely remove all offending priests and bishops from all around the world. The offences were against the young, the weak, and the helpless. Which means that each of predators should have had a millstone hung around their necks by Francis

It is better not to go to Church if you live like that, like an atheist.

Only a wolf in sheep's clothing would make such a remark. A real pastor would exhort sinners to repent and be converted. But how can Francis say that when he protects the criminal clergy at every opportunity?

But if you go to Church, live like a child, like a sibling, and give a true testimony, not a false testimony."

The true testimony of a sincere Catholic should be to condemn the Pope and ask him to resign. He is an accessory after the fact to the crimes of his clergy. It is not enough to tell predator priests "turn yourself in". That essentially means that the Pope is washing his hands of the real scandal, and failing to take responsibility for his church.

 

[epostle1]

The real scandal -- for those who have been following the shenanigans of the pope and his clergy -- is that he has swept the real scandal UNDER THE RUG: "In fact, critics observe, Francis himself stands accused of shielding predators and snubbing sex abuse victims and their families during his time as archbishop in his native Argentina."
Pope to Predator Priests: Turn Yourself In

He has failed to honestly and sincerely remove all offending priests and bishops from all around the world. The offences were against the young, the weak, and the helpless. Which means that each of predators should have had a millstone hung around their necks by Francis
Only a wolf in sheep's clothing would make such a remark. A real pastor would exhort sinners to repent and be converted. But how can Francis say that when he protects the criminal clergy at every opportunity?

The true testimony of a sincere Catholic should be to condemn the Pope and ask him to resign. He is an accessory after the fact to the crimes of his clergy. It is not enough to tell predator priests "turn yourself in". That essentially means that the Pope is washing his hands of the real scandal, and failing to take responsibility for his church.

Enoch111, how about I track down what the Pope really said? It wont make any difference. You have billions more articles of "gospel truth" like the falsehoods you love so much. Their is nothing in the in the Pope's quotes that are incriminating, JUST THE HEAVY EDITORIALIZING.

You have a reputation for being a liar, and posting Michael Voris, who is known as a character assassinator, is so radical he has lost his credibility. Sorry, but ChurchMilitant is not the gospel truth you take it for. Funny how you cherry pick one article with the help of your coven, BUT DISREGARD ANY TRUTHS THEY PROFESS.
How many times do your lies have to be exposed? It gets really tiresome time and time again. It seems you are addicted to hate, lies and slander. Are you that brainwashed that you think you can prove your hate cult "right" by proving Catholicism wrong? That's a stupid approach.

MEDIA REFUSE TO HOLD CBS ACCOUNTABLE
Catholic League president Bill Donohue comments on the way the media are treating CBS:

The CBS board of directors was given a verbal report this week on the sexual recklessness of their pope, CBS Chairman and CEO Les Moonves. But no one, save for the board, is allowed to see the full report.

CBS employees are furious, but too bad for them—transparency is not going to happen. One source explained why: “No report was made so that CBS could protect itself.”

Imagine the bishops saying no one is permitted to see its reports on sexual misconduct, explaining that they need to protect themselves. What would the august New York Times say?

A little over three months ago, on September 13, an editorial in the New York Times called out the Catholic Church for the homosexual scandal (which it falsely says is a pedophilia scandal), citing “the lack of transparency or accountability among bishops” as one of the problems.

Where is the New York Times editorial on the contempt that CBS has for transparency? Where are all the other media outlets—print, internet, broadcast TV, and cable?

Is it because the media don’t want to open up a hornet’s nest about sexual misconduct within their own ranks that they don’t demand CBS exercise transparency? Or is it because transparency is a game, a card that the media play when it affects the Catholic Church?

Either way, it shows how utterly insincere the media are about sexual offenses. Who the victimizer is should not matter, but sadly it does.

Contact Dana McClintock, Executive VP, Communications: [email protected]

MEDIA REFUSE TO HOLD CBS ACCOUNTABLE

Sorry to disappoint you, Enoch111, but the Pope is a mere human being, he does not have god-like mind reading powers that your hate cult grants him.

 

[GodsGrace]

The real scandal -- for those who have been following the shenanigans of the pope and his clergy -- is that he has swept the real scandal UNDER THE RUG: "In fact, critics observe, Francis himself stands accused of shielding predators and snubbing sex abuse victims and their families during his time as archbishop in his native Argentina."
Pope to Predator Priests: Turn Yourself In

He has failed to honestly and sincerely remove all offending priests and bishops from all around the world. The offences were against the young, the weak, and the helpless. Which means that each of predators should have had a millstone hung around their necks by Francis
Only a wolf in sheep's clothing would make such a remark. A real pastor would exhort sinners to repent and be converted. But how can Francis say that when he protects the criminal clergy at every opportunity?

The true testimony of a sincere Catholic should be to condemn the Pope and ask him to resign. He is an accessory after the fact to the crimes of his clergy. It is not enough to tell predator priests "turn yourself in". That essentially means that the Pope is washing his hands of the real scandal, and failing to take responsibility for his church.

Please don't turn this into a thread on the catholic sex scandal.
There are rotten apples in every organization.

I DO hold priests to a higher standard,,,that goes without saying.
But it does seem to me that even Protestants break rules.
When Swaggart was at his height, he fell hard by frequenting prostitutes when all he did was preach on holiness. And I know what he used to preach because I was a big fan of his and enjoyed his preaching and teaching. I agree with the doctrine of the AofG church. (which kicked him out).

BTW, the Pope can't be kicked out...so don't go there.
All previous popes knew what was going on....I fail to understand why priests are not removed from their post. They continue to be a priest, but they don't have to practice their priesthood.

All churches have done evil --- I don't think we should concentrate on this anymore.

 

[GodsGrace]

Enoch111, how about I track down what the Pope really said? It wont make any difference. You have billions more articles of "gospel truth" like the falsehoods you love so much. Their is nothing in the in the Pope's quotes that are incriminating, JUST THE HEAVY EDITORIALIZING.

You have a reputation for being a liar, and posting Michael Voris, who is known as a character assassinator, is so radical he has lost his credibility. Sorry, but ChurchMilitant is not the gospel truth you take it for. Funny how you cherry pick one article with the help of your coven, BUT DISREGARD ANY TRUTHS THEY PROFESS.
How many times do your lies have to be exposed? It gets really tiresome time and time again. It seems you are addicted to hate, lies and slander. Are you that brainwashed that you think you can prove your hate cult "right" by proving Catholicism wrong? That's a stupid approach.

MEDIA REFUSE TO HOLD CBS ACCOUNTABLE
Catholic League president Bill Donohue comments on the way the media are treating CBS:

The CBS board of directors was given a verbal report this week on the sexual recklessness of their pope, CBS Chairman and CEO Les Moonves. But no one, save for the board, is allowed to see the full report.

CBS employees are furious, but too bad for them—transparency is not going to happen. One source explained why: “No report was made so that CBS could protect itself.”

Imagine the bishops saying no one is permitted to see its reports on sexual misconduct, explaining that they need to protect themselves. What would the august New York Times say?

A little over three months ago, on September 13, an editorial in the New York Times called out the Catholic Church for the homosexual scandal (which it falsely says is a pedophilia scandal), citing “the lack of transparency or accountability among bishops” as one of the problems.

Where is the New York Times editorial on the contempt that CBS has for transparency? Where are all the other media outlets—print, internet, broadcast TV, and cable?

Is it because the media don’t want to open up a hornet’s nest about sexual misconduct within their own ranks that they don’t demand CBS exercise transparency? Or is it because transparency is a game, a card that the media play when it affects the Catholic Church?

Either way, it shows how utterly insincere the media are about sexual offenses. Who the victimizer is should not matter, but sadly it does.

Contact Dana McClintock, Executive VP, Communications: [email protected]

MEDIA REFUSE TO HOLD CBS ACCOUNTABLE

Sorry to disappoint you, Enoch111, but the Pope is a mere human being, he does not have god-like mind reading powers that your hate cult grants him.

What the Pope said was very misunderstood even here, and he should be very careful about the words that come out of his mouth.

Sometimes I wonder if he does this on purpose....?

 

[Windmillcharge]

What is the difference between one who is "lukewarm" and one who is "cold"?

"I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." Rev 3:15-16

The cold person is not a hypocrite. He is simply dead to God. He has never known God, but still has hope of seeing the Light while he still has time.
The lukewarm person has already seen the Light and encountered Life. He either has not grown at all or he slipped away from his first love into delusion.

An ignorant person recognizing his ignorance may be interested may interested in receiving an education, but a deluded person who believes he is right, when he is most definitely wrong, likely won't be seriously looking for improvement or correction.

Which position is the most difficult one? In the end, if they remained unchanged, they both are dead, but it seems that the ignorant one, the "cold" one is more likely to want to approach the Light before his end.

Is the 'lukewarm' Christian disobedient or dead?
I'd say yes to disobedient, but not yet dead.

 

[amadeus]

Is the 'lukewarm' Christian disobedient or dead?
I'd say yes to disobedient, but not yet dead.

Anyone without Life is dead. When God spits a person out of His mouth, I would presume that person has no Life in him. This is not speaking of carnal or fleshly life, but the Life which Jesus is.
While a person remains in disobedience, is he lost without hope? That is God's question to answer. Adam and Eve disobeyed in the Garden of Eden. They were then dead. Were they also lost without hope of coming back to Life? That is, could they be "born again"?

All of us as natural offspring of dead people [all natural descendants of Adam Eve] were in the eyes of God, born dead. Jesus came to provide the means for each of us to obtain Life.

Does any person who met Jesus and was born again have the ability or opportunity to disobey and die then to God?

 

[Windmillcharge]

Anyone without Life is dead. When God spits a person out of His mouth, I would presume that person has no Life in him. This is not speaking of carnal or fleshly life, but the Life which Jesus is.
While a person remains in disobedience, is he lost without hope? That is God's question to answer. Adam and Eve disobeyed in the Garden of Eden. They were then dead. Were they also lost without hope of coming back to Life? That is, could they be "born again"?

All of us as natural offspring of dead people [all natural descendants of Adam Eve] were in the eyes of God, born dead. Jesus came to provide the means for each of us to obtain Life.

Does any person who met Jesus and was born again have the ability or opportunity to disobey and die then to God?

When I look at my life and compare it to the zealous activity of a great many saints of old I cannot but in comparison comparison consider that I am a lukewarm Christian.

Then I look at the lack of influence we as Christians are having in the world/country, are there Christians who are asked for their views on issues of morlity or who are watch debating with nonchristians?

ow effective is Christian teaching in the church? How many 'Christians' are having sex outside of marriage, regard living together as normal etc etc etc

 

[farouk]

When I look at my life and compare it to the zealous activity of a great many saints of old I cannot but in comparison comparison consider that I am a lukewarm Christian.

Then I look at the lack of influence we as Christians are having in the world/country, are there Christians who are asked for their views on issues of morlity or who are watch debating with nonchristians?

ow effective is Christian teaching in the church? How many 'Christians' are having sex outside of marriage, regard living together as normal etc etc etc

I think if we look within there is either the potential towards Laodicea...or else remembrance also of the Isaiah 55.11 principle that His Word will not return unto Him void and so it's eminently logical to align ourselves daily with it.

 

[Dave L]

At the first general audience of 2019, Pope Francis said this:

POPE FRANCIS
"How many times do we see the scandal of those people who go to church, and are there all day or go every day, and then they live hating others or talking badly about people. This is a scandal. It is better not to go to Church if you live like that, like an atheist. But if you go to Church, live like a child, like a sibling, and give a true testimony, not a false testimony."

I see two ideas coming out of the above...at least for me:

1. Persons that go to church every day should KNOW that they are not to hate others. If they don't, it means the Catholic church is not doing the proper teaching.

2. How could it be better not to go to church? How could it be better to live like an atheist?


What do the catholics on this forum think of what he said?

I think the Pope was asking "why go to church and then live like an atheist?" And then saying "if you do go to church, live it".

 

[Enoch111]

I think the Pope was asking "why go to church and then live like an atheist?" And then saying "if you do go to church, live it".

"And if you claim to be the Vicar of Christ don't live like it. Do as I say, not as I do."