THE DAUGHTERS OF MEN

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Enoch111

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Basically what that means is that if Adam was immortal when created he would still be alive today.
It should be evident from the Bible record that Adam and Eve were created with THE POTENTIAL to be immortal, not automatically immortal. And that could only have happened had they remained obedient and been allowed to eat of the tree of life.

But that was not to be, therefore here is what we read: And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. (Gen 3:22,23)
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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And that is exactly who Adam was before the fall. In fact God put Adam in charge of all of the garden. Eden was a heavenly kingdom on Earth.

The Greek scriptures (New Testament ) was speaking about those who would be in heaven with Jesus who had been selected by God by his Holy Spirit which selection didn't start until the 1st century of our Common Era. So if you think those scriptures included Adam, you're wrong. That selection as I said didn't start til the 1st century. Adam wasn't selected because he was long dead.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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If Adam hadn't eaten of the forbidden fruit, yes, he would still be alive today, however his soul is and in the resurrection he will get his immortal body back. He and Eve were the only ones who had possessed an immortal body, and whether the bible mentions it or not the fact that we all have souls capable of living for eternity Christian and sinner alike is a truth. Whatever terminology you want to use to name it is irrelevant be it, eternal, immortal, infinite, forever, etc., they all mean the same thing.

I disagree for a number of reasons on what you said here but answering why would take up other subjects of why I disagree. One reason I will give since doing so would stay on topic is that while I agree that if Adam hadn't eaten of the forbidden fruit he would still be alive today, that doesn't mean he would be an immortal being. Immortality means can not die. It means indestructible, can't be detroyed. Otherwise it wouldn't be immortality. As I said in a earlier post, eternal life and immortality, not the same thing. So if Adam hadn't eaten the forbidden fruit, yes he still be living and look young wouldn't get sick etc. But that would still be contingent on him continuing to obey God.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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It should be evident from the Bible record that Adam and Eve were created with THE POTENTIAL to be immortal, not automatically immortal. And that could only have happened had they remained obedient and been allowed to eat of the tree of life.

But that was not to be, therefore here is what we read: And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. (Gen 3:22,23)

I'm not saying that at anytime that Adam would have been immortal. I was simply saying that if God had created Adam Immortal then he would still be alive today. Immortal beings don't need to eat to keep living. They can't be put to death because immortality means deathlessness, indestructible. So while it's true Adam would still be living today if he hadn't eaten the forbidden fruit, all that means is that God would have rewarded him with eternal life not immortality. Adam able to continue living was based on the contingencey that he continue to obey God
 

Trekson

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The Greek scriptures (New Testament ) was speaking about those who would be in heaven with Jesus who had been selected by God by his Holy Spirit which selection didn't start until the 1st century of our Common Era. So if you think those scriptures included Adam, you're wrong. That selection as I said didn't start til the 1st century. Adam wasn't selected because he was long dead.

I disagree and here's why. 1 Peter 3:18-20 - "Christ also suffered. He died once for the sins of all us guilty sinners although he himself was innocent of any sin at any time, that he might bring us safely home to God. But though his body died, his spirit lived on, 19 and it was in the spirit that he visited the spirits in prison and preached to them— 20 spirits of those who, long before in the days of Noah, had refused to listen to God, though he waited patiently for them while Noah was building the ark. Yet only eight persons were saved from drowning in that terrible flood."

From Adam on, the only deciding factor on what and who is acceptable by God only depends on their faith. If you think all the heroes of faith like those listed in Heb. 11 aren't going to be in heaven with us, you are sadly mistaken. Their spirits are there now awaiting the resurrection where they will be given the same type bodies we are according to 1 Cor. 15:51-52.

You said, "Immortal beings don't need to eat to keep living." The bible seems to say that even after we have put on our "immortal" bodies we will still need to partake of the tree of life via eating.

You said, "They can't be put to death because immortality means deathlessness, indestructible." There are many Christians who believe that as we ae given eternal life, the souls of the unsaved will burn in hell forever, and others say there will come a time after the GWTJ that death will be destroyed and all those eternal souls will die. Only the creator of those souls has the right and power to make that determination, in other words if he can make our mortal bodies immortal, then surely he can do it in reverse.
 

bbyrd009

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That does not refute it. Pre-adamic means before Adam.
Then imo you could have engaged @ when does time start, or were Adam and Eve immortal before the Tree incident. Now I might suggest that you have one of your witnesses maybe rephrase your position, or rephrase it yourself, or even just be prepared to hold the belief all by yourself, no sin in that I guess.

But I wouldn't be imagining that you have any kind of valid refute of "Adam was 130 years old when" with that and no witnesses wadr, although that is entirely up to you. I've forgotten the point there in connection with "the daughters of men" now, and the beginning of Genesis is likely not meant to be read so literally anyway, but you might address that if Adam was 130 then by def he was also once 1 right, so you might get to your point that way maybe?
 

bbyrd009

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Eternal and immortal are the same thing. Only God can put an end to either.
No, sorry, they are not, as any unbiased reading of Scripture would tell you.
There is only one immortal
see, they knew the term and everything
From eternity to eternity
provides more clarity too I guess
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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I disagree and here's why. 1 Peter 3:18-20 - "Christ also suffered. He died once for the sins of all us guilty sinners although he himself was innocent of any sin at any time, that he might bring us safely home to God. But though his body died, his spirit lived on, 19 and it was in the spirit that he visited the spirits in prison and preached to them— 20 spirits of those who, long before in the days of Noah, had refused to listen to God, though he waited patiently for them while Noah was building the ark. Yet only eight persons were saved from drowning in that terrible flood."

From Adam on, the only deciding factor on what and who is acceptable by God only depends on their faith. If you think all the heroes of faith like those listed in Heb. 11 aren't going to be in heaven with us, you are sadly mistaken. Their spirits are there now awaiting the resurrection where they will be given the same type bodies we are according to 1 Cor. 15:51-52.

You said, "Immortal beings don't need to eat to keep living." The bible seems to say that even after we have put on our "immortal" bodies we will still need to partake of the tree of life via eating.

You said, "They can't be put to death because immortality means deathlessness, indestructible." There are many Christians who believe that as we ae given eternal life, the souls of the unsaved will burn in hell forever, and others say there will come a time after the GWTJ that death will be destroyed and all those eternal souls will die. Only the creator of those souls has the right and power to make that determination, in other words if he can make our mortal bodies immortal, then surely he can do it in reverse.


well see, you and I believe differently because you believe we all will be in heaven and I believe there will be a few, I believe 144,000 plus Jesus Christ who will be in heaven and be with Jesus in that Kingdom and be Kings, Priest, Judges ruling over the Earth. I believe the majority of mankind will be the subjects of that Kingdom and be resurrected back on Earth which will be made into a paradise. Therefore those heroes of faith in Heb.11 I believe will be resurrected back on Earth.

I understand that other people believe differently about the word immortality and I understand that there are people who believe we have Souls rather than believing we are Souls as I believe the scriptures say. I will always understand that people have the right to their belief. Since none of us are infallible however, even on our reasoning on the scriptures I will continue to believe what I believe just as you will, until someone convinces me from the scriptures that what I believe isn't scriptural.

Question, if these heroes of faith listed in Heb.11 are already in heaven, I'm taking this to mean that you are saying these spirits they are already living in heaven, right? Why would they need to be resurrected. The word resurrection basically means, standing up back to life from the dead, doesn't it? So why would they need to be resurrected back to life to the living if you're saying they already have life and are living in heaven. I have no problem with the dead being resurrected back to life to the living, but the living being resurrected back to life to the living I do have a problem with, it doesn't make sense to me.
 

bbyrd009

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well see, you and I believe differently because you believe we all will be in heaven and I believe there will be a few, I believe 144,000 plus Jesus Christ who will be in heaven and be with Jesus in that Kingdom and be Kings, Priest,
No one has ever gone up to heaven BB, so now what?
 

bbyrd009

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until someone convinces me from the scriptures that what I believe isn't scriptural.

Question, if these heroes of faith listed in Heb.11 are already in heaven, I'm taking this to mean that you are saying these spirits they are already living in heaven, right? Why would they need to be resurrected. The word resurrection basically means, standing up back to life from the dead, doesn't it? So why would they need to be resurrected back to life to the living if you're saying they already have life and are living in heaven. I have no problem with the dead being resurrected back to life to the living, but the living being resurrected back to life to the living I do have a problem with, it doesn't make sense to me.
Scripture addresses all of these BB, you and your sons will be here with me,
A man lives once, and then the judgement

Or similar, can't Quote from an iPad sorry.
 

bbyrd009

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God told Adam not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil cause he would die if did. So IF Adam hadn't eaten of the tree he would still be alive. We know of course that he did eat of the tree and therefore died.
When Adam ate from the tree the nature of that death became clear BB, and it was not literal death, but spiritual.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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ah, what's the diff BB?

there's a big difference. If a person has been rewarded with eternal life by God then God will make sure that he/she wouldn't grow old, won't get sick, etc. but if you try to breathe water you would drown, you would have to continue to eat food or you would starve, thank God that he told us there would be plenty to eat on paradise Earth. If however you have been rewarded with immortality and inherited incorruption like Jesus then you would live in heaven and would not need to eat anything to keep living, could walk through fire and it wouldn't harm you because those bought from humanity living in heaven rewarded with immortality and inherit incorruption are powerful spiritual beings. Those living on Earth rewarded with eternal life are flesh and blood humans.
 

bbyrd009

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there's a big difference. If a person has been rewarded with eternal life by God then God will make sure that he/she wouldn't grow old, won't get sick, etc. but if you try to breathe water you would drown, you would have to continue to eat food or you would starve, thank God that he told us there would be plenty to eat on paradise Earth. If however you have been rewarded with immortality and inherited incorruption like Jesus then you would live in heaven and would not need to eat anything to keep living, could walk through fire and it wouldn't harm you because those bought from humanity living in heaven rewarded with immortality and inherit incorruption are powerful spiritual beings. Those living on Earth rewarded with eternal life are flesh and blood humans.
Well I'm sorry B but Scripture disputes that pov at more than one place, and even a corrupted Strong's can provide anyone who seeks the proper definition of Eternal wadr

It is given for a man to live once, and then judgement
You and your sons will be here with me
There is only one Immortal
No one has ever gone up to heaven
From eternity to eternity
 

bbyrd009

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Strong's Greek: 166. αἰώνιος (aiónios) -- agelong, eternal
"age-long"
Strong's Greek: 165. αἰών (aión) -- a space of time, an age
"eon" would likely be our contemporary equivalent i guess

and this does not mean your pastor is a bad guy or anything, sellers naturally arise in response to buyers, and the best descriptions of our current congregations might be found in the Scriptural discussions of "marketplace" I guess,
Bible Search: Marketplace
So if your pastor has signed a Contract for Jesus, and you have donated to his cause--tax free of course--then you are getting ezackly what you have paid for, bc you have found what you sought, right, no one donates to causes they do not believe in I guess.

Now does this "condemn" anyone? Certainly--in the same way we would "condemn" a little kid for saying that babies come from birds, or that it's sprinkling, not raining. Iow you will be forgiven for that as long as it is done in ignorance, but you are called to change your mind and stop being ignorant, too
 
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BARNEY BRIGHT

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When Adam ate from the tree the nature of that death became clear BB, and it was not literal death, but spiritual.

If you want to say the person who ate of the forbidden fruit didn't really die, that's your belief. I also believe you are calling God a liar. I believe when God told Adam he would die he was talking to the person, not just some part of him. so yes I believe Adam literally died
That's not a guess nor a belief BB, that is Scripture ok
No one has ever gone up to heaven

No its' your belief. Don't get me wrong I know you truly believe what you state Is scripture. But so what, so do I. No one is infallible on this planet we live on. You have shown me nothing from scripture that what you say is true, although I know you think you have.