The Five Points of Calvinism

[CoreIssue]

Why do you and other Calvinists bother? After all, everybody's fate was preprogrammed before creation.

Or is this a puppet masters entertainment watching us dance on his strings?

 

[farouk]

Why do you and other Calvinists bother? After all, everybody's fate was preprogrammed before creation.

Or is this a puppet masters entertainment watching us dance on his strings?

So... do you want to the the master of your own fate...? (excuse the question thus phrased...)

Reliance on grace is everything.

 

[Waiting on him]

Giving man way too much credit. You do realize they cover themselves with fig leaves? Same fig leaves when Jesus came looking for fruit and only found leaves (cover) with no fruit. ‘Nothing thereon, but leaves only.’ Matthew 21:19-20 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away. [20] And when the disciples saw it , they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!

John 6:29
[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Do you agree it is not dead works so it (believing)can’t be a work of the flesh void of the Spirit of God. Where there is the Spirit of God there is Life.

God chooses.

THE WORK OF GOD.

 

[farouk]

THE WORK OF GOD.

Exactly; it's the work of God from start to finish, by His grace.

 

[Waiting on him]

So... do you want to the the master of your own fate...? (excuse the question thus phrased...)

Reliance on grace is everything.

Well said!

 

[Waiting on him]

Exactly; it's the work of God from start to finish, by His grace.

Why would anyone want to put a fig leaf over that?

 

[CoreIssue]

So... do you want to the the master of your own fate...? (excuse the question thus phrased...)

Reliance on grace is everything.

Of course faith and grace are the cornerstones.

Calvinism rejects free will so we don't have any say in the issue according to them but the Bible says we do,

Calvinism says we were subject to a giant lottery before creation. Some randomly chosen for salvation and some for damnation.

So let me ask you, do you think people have a right to choose God or reject him?

After all if we have no say in the matter so why are some damned for eternity while others are saved? After all per Calvinism none have a voice in any way in being saved are not. So why some and not all all or none or some others instead?

Please answer that question. But don't say just because it's God's will because that would not be a loving or just God.

 

[farouk]

Of course faith and grace are the cornerstones.

Calvinism rejects free will so we don't have any say in the issue according to them but the Bible says we do,

Calvinism says we were subject to a giant lottery before creation. Some randomly chosen for salvation and some for damnation.

So let me ask you, do you think people have a right to choose God or reject him?

After all if we have no say in the matter all why are some damned for eternity while others are saved? After all per Calvinism none have a voice in any way in being saved are not. So why some and not all all or none or some others instead?

Please answer that question. But don't say just because it's God's will because that would not be a loving or just God.

You are already telling God which sinners He "ought" to save: the supposedly meritorious, cooperative ones. Whereas the supposed merit of cooperation independently of the working of His grace is negated by 'not of works' (Ephesians 2.9).

(This discussions can go round and round...)

 

[CoreIssue]

You are already telling God which sinners He "ought" to save: the supposedly meritorious, cooperative ones. Whereas the supposed merit of cooperation independently of the working of His grace is negated by 'not of works' (Ephesians 2.9).

(This discussions can go round and round...)

You totally evaded answering my question. Try again.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

“The wicked choose it.” They know no different than what this world has shown and taught them until God shows them something new. Until He opens their eyes and ears. Man doesn’t and can not open his own ears and eyes to Spirit. It has to be birthed ...born. That which is flesh...is flesh. Spirit is NOT born of flesh but Spirit is born of Spirit. Keep them in hell by continuing to justify it by saying flesh can bear itself Spiritual eyes and ears and because it doesn’t ...they are evil and those smart enough to produce a response to God by flesh are not evil. All flesh is the same. Dead works without Spirit. 1 Corinthians 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

And under Calvinism, God doesn't show many people anything else.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Exactly; it's the work of God from start to finish, by His grace.

Then why do you keep saying man chooses and some choose hell? Or have I misunderstood?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

And under Calvinism, God doesn't show many people anything else.

What about Joseph Smith. How is he any different from Calvin?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Jane demonstrates an inability to deal with these 4 verses...jn10:26-30.
She cannot welcome or understand the verses so she avoids scripture as she cannot answer at all.
Jesus teaching is where the system known as Calvinism comes from.
If she or anyone else would attempt to work through the verses they might get a glimpse of the truth.

Again, Jesus isn't teaching Calvinism in those verses. Repeating those same verses or personally insulting me is not going to change the verses or the fact that a sheep *voluntarily* follows the shepard.

You did not answer the question once again.

Posted on this very thread, by a Calvinist:

The Five Points of Calvinism

David N. Steele & Curtis C. Thomas

The Five Points of Calvinism
....<Jane Snip for length>...
Limited Atonement

Christ's redeeming work was intended to save the elect only and actually secured salvation for them.

(Bolding mine)
God only saves *some*.

Can you show any Calvinist teaching what you claim
Can you use scripture at all?

I keep see you ignoring scripture and/or mutilating it's meaning. Even a simple and pure verse like John3:16 Calvinists butcher. And no, I'm not eager to keep seeing this butchering.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

What about Joseph Smith. How is he any different from Calvin?

If you want to go on that target, I would invite you to post on the thread already for those tangental thoughts, or start a new one (which is probably a cleaner/simpler ideas).

 

[VictoryinJesus]

If you want to go on that target, there's already a thread for that.

What is the title of the thread?

 

[Waiting on him]

Again, Jesus isn't teaching Calvinism in those verses. Repeating those same verses or personally insulting me is not going to change the verses or the fact that a sheep *voluntarily* follows the shepard.

Posted on this very thread, by a Calvinist:

(Bolding mine)
God only saves *some*.



I keep see you ignoring scripture and/or mutilating it's meaning. Even a simple and pure verse like John3:16 Calvinists butcher. And no, I'm not eager to keep seeing this butchering.

Many are called few chosen.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

What is the title of the thread?

Thinking about this is, probably simpler/cleaner to start a new thread or have a PM conversation.

But if you want, the tangent started out for some for Dave's tangent is "Some good information for Dave"

 

[Waiting on him]

What is the title of the thread?

I’ve alread looked at your private rant. I don’t see anyone here claiming to follow Calvin. I follow Christ. Do you follow smith?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I’ve alread looked at your private rant. I don’t see anyone here claiming to follow Calvin. I follow Christ. Do you follow smith?

(I think this was supposed to be addressed to me)

I already acknowledged that Calvinists are Christians. I am not denying your love of Christ or your devotion to Him-- never would I do such a blind and hateful thing.

Now, that being said, under the Christian umbrella, there are a very large number of different traditions and human teachers, that disagree on many points. You got Calvinist Christians, Catholic Christian, Orthodox Christians, LDS Christians, Methodists Christians, etc. It is those finer points (like Calvin's TULIP) we have been discussing on this thread. I am not denying anyone's love of Christ or standing as a Christian.

 

[Helen]

THE WORK OF GOD.

Very true..."No man can come unto Me except the Father draw him."

But, just like the stubborn child...the parent says time to eat, but the kids ignore it and carries on playing with his toys.

God IS the initiator, but their must be a response.