Paul said: give thyself to reading of the scriptures

[bbyrd009]

You have to read someone who will tell you what that means to you?

unfort the way it seems to work most often is that one person's obv and deliberate refusal to see helps another to imo

 

[bbyrd009]

Frankly, there isn't much of an excuse for someone raised in English schools to be a poor reader of their own natural language.

I wish I could agree, but the opinions of our peers usually have an overweening influence on our own interps I guess, re the emperor's new clothes, etc

 

[marks]

Then , I take it, that person would be your choice to hire to stand in the pulpit of your church each Sunday? You know absolutely well we were never talking about people with disabilities, at all.

Seriously, why did you hire an eloquent speaker to be the preacher at your church? Shouldn't you have, instead, gone for the beauty of someone who couldn't communicate well?

Hi Willie,

You've lost me on this! Why would I assume someone who reads poorly should also be teaching? I don't see the connection.

But weren't you saying that someone who reads poorly should participate in the public reading of Scripture? I'm thinking that many times the reason people read poorly, or . . . more poorly than you perhaps . . . obviously you are very literate . . . but anyway, I think oftentimes people read poorly outloud because they do in fact have disabilities, learning or otherwise. Then there are the disadvantaged, who never got an education to speak of.

But for all the reasons that there could be for someone not to read well outloud, should we disqualify anyone we think isn't good enough to make the cut? Whose cut? Personally, I like to give people the opportunity for more. What better place to practice and grow than with your loving family?

Oh, and I'm just talking about reading, communicating is quite another matter.

Same with writing. Much writing goes on sometimes, without much communicating.

I'm curious, you mentioned hiring someone to stand in the pulpit . . . is that your church practice? Just wondering. That's not our practice, but I know of churches that do that.

Much love!
mark

 

[Willie T]

Hi Willie,

You've lost me on this! Why would I assume someone who reads poorly should also be teaching? I don't see the connection.

But weren't you saying that someone who reads poorly should participate in the public reading of Scripture? I'm thinking that many times the reason people read poorly, or . . . more poorly than you perhaps . . . obviously you are very literate . . . but anyway, I think oftentimes people read poorly outloud because they do in fact have disabilities, learning or otherwise. Then there are the disadvantaged, who never got an education to speak of.

But for all the reasons that there could be for someone not to read well outloud, should we disqualify anyone we think isn't good enough to make the cut? Whose cut? Personally, I like to give people the opportunity for more. What better place to practice and grow than with your loving family?

Oh, and I'm just talking about reading, communicating is quite another matter.

Same with writing. Much writing goes on sometimes, without much communicating.

I'm curious, you mentioned hiring someone to stand in the pulpit . . . is that your church practice? Just wondering. That's not our practice, but I know of churches that do that.

Much love!
mark

You would have a man devote his time to preparing sermons and teaching the congregation each and every Sunday with no remuneration? I think even the Bible said "the laborer is worthy of his hire."

 

[Willie T]

As far as our Bible Class Scripture reading is concerned, it really was difficult for almost all concerned. Most of the men who read poorly, knew it, and really didn't want to be in the spotlight. And the rest of us, only listening, not knowing ahead of time what their particular passage was going to be, couldn't just go ahead and read it for ourselves. It really was quite a confused mess.

By the way, aside from the rare occasion of some learning problem, the main reason for poor reading is almost always laziness in not developing the necessary habits required for effective reading.

 

[marks]

You would have a man devote his time to preparing sermons and teaching the congregation each and every Sunday with no remuneration? I think even the Bible said "the laborer is worthy of his hire."

Hi Willie,

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to give the wrong impression. We support our pastors. I think most of us feel the same as I do, that they deserve extra. But it's not like an employer/employee relationship. We don't hire pastors. But we do give to them.

Much love!
Mark

 

[Willie T]

Hi Willie,

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to give the wrong impression. We support our pastors. I think most of us feel the same as I do, that they deserve extra. But it's not like an employer/employee relationship. We don't hire pastors. But we do give to them.

Much love!
Mark

"TomaYto", "TomaHto," LOL

 

[marks]

"TomaYto", "TomaHto," LOL

Perhaps, but I know churches that have a "board of elders" who do not pastor, but recruit and hire pastors. We're not that way. We are more elders who pastor, and those who do it full time, they receive support.

Much love,
Mark

 

[farouk]

Perhaps, but I know churches that have a "board of elders" who do not pastor, but recruit and hire pastors. We're not that way. We are more elders who pastor, and those who do it full time, they receive support.

Much love,
Mark

It's good when local churches avoid the 'board of directors' approach and function more Scripturally with the spiritual side of work uppermost.

 

[marks]

It's good when local churches avoid the 'board of directors' approach and function more Scripturally with the spiritual side of work uppermost.

Hi farouk,

Yeah, the "board of directors', and I'd add the CEO style church. I believe authoritarian approaches are not what God had in mind.

Much love!
Mark

 

[farouk]

Hi farouk,

Yeah, the "board of directors', and I'd add the CEO style church. I believe authoritarian approaches are not what God had in mind.

Much love!
Mark

The North American business model works efficiently...in business. The work of the Holy Spirit is another matter...

 

[Willie T]

The point is, none of any kind of church has anyone preaching who cannot do it. And that was what that Bible study I quit was trying to do... force everyone into the position of having to be an evangelic expositor.

 

[bbyrd009]

Imo Let the blind lead the blind is a commentary on those who assume leadership, mostly

 

[Enoch111]

So, from the Lex-lesson, I guess you mean you don't really know?

How did you arrive at that? The plain meaning is crystal clear.

1. All Scripture = the whole Bible
2. Given by inspiration of God = is the Word of God
3. Profitable for doctrine = and essential to know God's truth (the teaching of the Holy Spirit).

Of course there is more to this verse than just that.

 

[Willie T]

How did you arrive at that? The plain meaning is crystal clear.

1. All Scripture = the whole Bible
2. Given by inspiration of God = is the Word of God
3. Profitable for doctrine = and essential to know God's truth (the teaching of the Holy Spirit).

Of course there is more to this verse than just that.

Yeah, I kind of figured that would be your answer.

 

[bbyrd009]

Yeah, I kind of figured that would be your answer.

1/3 is better than none i guess!

 

[amadeus]

Frankly, there isn't much of an excuse for someone raised in English schools to be a poor reader of their own natural language.

There may not be much of an excuse, there is a reason as it does happen. Many people with high school diplomas are in trouble reading things more complicated than common traffic signs. While working in a Social Security field office some of our most frequent visitors were people who could not understand short simply worded letters sent to them. They came to our office or called us on the phone for us to explain the meaning and assure them that they had nothing to worry about and often nothing to do.

 

[farouk]

There may not be much of an excuse, there is a reason as it does happen. Many people with high school diplomas are in trouble reading things more complicated than common traffic signs. While working in a Social Security field office some of our most frequent visitors were people who could not understand short simply worded letters sent to them. They came to our office or called us on the phone for us to explain the meaning and assure them that they had nothing to worry about and often nothing to do.

Years ago people who learned to read through the Bible seemed to be far more fluent than some with a high school education today...

 

[amadeus]

Years ago people who learned to read through the Bible seemed to be far more fluent than some with a high school education today...

If you are correct, you could not prove it by me. I have throughout my lifetime [age 75]met many people, Americans, who have been at best only semi-literate. Reading a newspaper other than the headlines or the titles was often too much for them. What they may have learned at school was often lost because they never really used it.

How can I confirm what occurred before I came onto the scene? Did literacy improve with the invention of the printing press and then later go down hill? I can read what writers have said, but how can I know?

 

[farouk]

If you are correct, you could not prove it by me. I have throughout my lifetime [age 75]met many people, Americans, who have been at best only semi-literate. Reading a newspaper other than the headlines or the titles was often too much for them. What they may have learned at school was often lost because they never really used it.

How can I confirm what occurred before I came onto the scene? Did literacy improve with the invention of the printing press and then later go down hill? I can read what writers have said, but how can I know?

TV, computers and an educational emphasis on political rights at the expense of the alphabet, is maybe behind a widespread loss of literacy...